Cycling help needed!

[krystl]

O, wise fish people - HELP!!

I am a total newbie. I bought six black phantom tetras about a month ago and put them into my 12 gallon tank. I've only done one partial water change, about a week ago, just to clean up the water and vacuum the gravel. I haven't done any more water changes since my liquid test kit is not reading any ammonia whatsoever. The fish don't seem particularly happy. They hide in the corner in a tight little school much of the time. One of the fish died just before I did the water change. He looked fine, I have no idea why he died. They all eat, although one of the bigger ones is aggressive and tries to hog it all. Today, though, when I came home from work, one of the fish was hovering listlessly near the top (no gasping at the surface, though), and sort of drifting in an alarming manner. The others seem twitchy, and they are clamping their top fins a bit - not too tightly, but not fanning them the way they normally do. I have tested for nitrites - nothing. The pH levels are normal, and the temperature is just right, according to my heater and thermometer. Anyhow, I just have no idea what to do to get the cycle going.

I did have one other set of fish, in this same tank, previously, also black phantom tetras - they were just fine, even though the tank never seemed to cycle then, either. They were fine until we introduced a pictus catfish, who promptly got ich and gave it to everyone else. I got some bad advice from my aquarium store ("just wait a few days and see what happens"), so all my fish died. I thoroughly cleaned everything out, studied everything I could about ich so THAT wouldn't happen again, and restocked the tank.

What could I possibly be doing wrong here? Has anyone ever heard of this problem? Thanks for listening... :?

 

[Menagerie]

[center:fe9ea0b7b7] Welcome to AA, krystl! [/center:fe9ea0b7b7]
What are your exact readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Are you using liquid test kits? What are you using as a filter?

 

[krystl]

Ammonia, absolutely 0. Nitrite, absolutely 0. I don't have a test for nitrate. I'm using a liquid test kit - freshwater master test kit. I have a charcoal filter and a bio-wheel. It's an Eclipse brand tank - it has one of those blue-spongy looking rectangular charcoal filters. Thanks for responding!

hockey-playing gerbils??!

 

[thetmaxx]

a nitrate test would be very helpful, as it is a good indicator of how much left over food, and poop is in your tank... generally nitrates can be followed to know how well of a job your doing at feeding and cleaning.

also you say you bought the fish a month ago.... but how long has it been since the tank was setup? it sounds like you had fish in it b4 and they died.... if it's been a while, im sure the tank cycled...

 

[krystl]

Thanks, I'll try a nitrate test. I emptied out the tank completely after the last fish died, and started over completely a month ago with clean stuff and all new water...

 

[thetmaxx]

so did you put fish in right away, or let the water set for a week or two? its always best to let the tank run with out fish for that long so it will completly cycle.

also if a fish is living in a stressful condition such as poor water, it can allow a disease like ich to infect the fish really easy. so if your putting the fish in befor ethe tank has cycled it could have stressed them out allowing ich to set in and kill them.

 

[An t-iasg]

Here is a good article on cycling: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=21

Running a tank empty (letting the heater and filter run without fish) is a good idea, because you can check the filter's operation, and check the heater's temperature, without any fish in there in case something goes wrong. I had a heater one time stick and make the water about 90 degrees. I didn't have any fish yet, and I was able to go get a new heater, and no fish got hurt in that hot tank.

But a tank will not cycle this way. To get a buildup of the good bacteria required to cycle the tank, you must have an ammonia source. Fish are an ammonia source, but a lot of people do "fishless cycling" -- adding ammonia to a new tank so that the good bacteria can multiply and begin to break down the ammonia and nitrites. This way, the fish are not stressed by the high levels of ammonia that occur as the tank is beginning the cycle.

 

[chasgood]

Well the first thing I noticed about this is you started the tank with a full bio load. 6 of those tetras is pushing it for a fully cycled tank. You should cycle that 12gal with 1 maybe 2 fish. Add the others when the cycle completes. See if the store will take 4 back till your ready for them.

 

[krystl]

Thanks, everyone. I did let the tank run for a week before I put my fish in. And, *sigh*, I only have 5 fish left, so the bio load is already lessened. I'm concerned about having less fish, because the ones I have STILL haven't produced any measurable ammonia. If I take some out, won't it take even longer?? I'm going to go read the article An t-iasg suggested. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to try to help.

 

[Guest]

It is very odd to me that there are no ammonia readings. Are you using any other chemicals? How large are your water changes?

 

[Guest]

Also is there any other reason to run the tank without any fish for 2 weeks other than to see if everything works?

 

[An t-iasg]

You don't have to let the tank run for two weeks. I only let mine run a day before I added fish (and Bio-Spira!) I did catch the hot heater, and replaced that. All you want to do by running the tank without fish is to check to see that everything -- filter, heater, airstone if you have one, etc, is working. You also want to let the gravel settle a little too, and let the filter pull any "dust" out of the water. I use Estes coated gravel, so the gravel dust wasn't that bad. You also want to let the heater get up to the proper temperature. Depending how big your tank is, that could take a few days. My tank is only 5 gallons, so it only took a day to get ready. A bigger tank may take longer, but I don't think it would take two weeks.

 

[thetmaxx]

thats always what i've been told... is too run it for a week or two... how ever long you can hold out... but i've only cycled 2 tanks... a 1 gallon and this 10 gallon a year ago... so....

 

[krystl]

It is very odd to me that there are no ammonia readings. Are you using any other chemicals? How large are your water changes?

I've not added any chemicals, except bio-coat, to the tap water I am using in the tank. The one water change I've done was 1/3.

 

[joekoug]

I would go to your lfs and buy a new test kit to test for PH, Amonia, NitrIte, Nitrate. Maybe your test kit is outdated and your ammonia and nitrites are way high and you didn't even know it. While you're there, bring in a sample of your water and see how it tests there.

hth
Joe