Cycling pico tank

[kc2ped]

I am setting up a Fluval Chi
Yesterday I did a water change on my nano tank and changed out twice the amount of water as normal and put that hand-me-down water into the pico tank to jumpstart the cycle
I am also using a little bit of the fluorite from the established tank in the Chi's plant basket
How am I going to know when the tank is cycled since I am already introducing beneficial bacteria

 

[loveconvicts]

Get a water quality kit from your petstore when there is no ammonia and .25 or less nitrites with some nitrates your cycled and ready for fish this process should not be rushed and will usually take 4-6 weeks!

 

[kc2ped]

I test my water with an API chemical test kit. My tap water has .25 ppm ammonia in it and I get the same reading or lower from my nano tank. My nitrites are always at 0 and my nitrates around 60 ppm. Since I have filled the pico tank with this water and some of the substrate from that tank, which assumedly have some of the bacteria that are keeping the ammonia and nitrites in the nano tank in check am I going to see the spike in ammonia and then nitrites that I would see if I were cycling the tank with tap water and all new substrate? When I cycled the nano tank with plants and fish there was no ammonia spike and the nitrite spike was almost small enough to be missed.

 

[fort384]

You should still see a spike. the water will not help much with the cycle... the substrate should help substantially though.

 

[BigJim]

If you have enough plants, you can experience a so-called silent cycle where the plants use up the ammonia before you ever really see it.

Normally though, you should see ammonia and nitrite spikes regardless of tank size. We measure the concentration of ammonia and nitrite, not the volumetric quantity.

60ppm is a lot of nitrate. I don't like to see more than 20ppm in my tanks.

 

[fort384]

Agreed with BigJim, but even with a silent cycle, some ammonia is still probably going to be visible. I have cycled tanks chocked full of plants with high light and CO2, and still had readable ammonia (albeit low) during the cycling stage.

 

[kc2ped]

60ppm is a lot of nitrate. I don't like to see more than 20ppm in my tanks.

I am not happy with that much nitrate but can't get it down. I did 20% water changes every day for a week and it only went down to 40 ppm. A week ago I put a carbon cartridge in the filter but it didn't affect anything either.

 

[BigJim]

Do you have nitrates in your tap water? If not, a 50% PWC should cut your nitrates from 60ppm to 30ppm.

Carbon won't remove nitrates. Live plants use it as fertilizer. There are also chemical nitrate removers and there's the deep sand bed method where anaerobic bacteria eat the nitrates. Live plants are by far the safest option, but 60ppm is still a lot of nitrates.

 

[kc2ped]

I did test the tap water a while back and the only thing that was unusual was 0.25 ppm ammonia which I am assuming is chloramine although I am not aware that NYC uses it in the portion of the water supply they treat.
I run my tap water through a Brita pitcher before putting it into the tank. I don't have resources to let water sit so that seemed to be my best option other than treating it chemically which I am not a big fan of. I don't see putting chemicals into the water to get rid of chemicals. Just means more stuff in the water and my GH had been off the charts anyway but is coming down now.
When I tested the tap water I did four tests
1) tank water
2) old Brita cartridge
3) new Brita cartridge
4) tap water
If I am interpreting my notes correctly (I didn't mark which column of numbers was which since I didn't expect to need to reference them again but am going on the order in which the tests were done)
ammonia from the tank, tap and old filter was at 0.25 ppm and from the new filter at 0.50 ppm.
Nitrate was 0 across the board.
Nitrate in the tank was 80 ppm and from the filters and tap 0.
KH in the tank 2°, old filter 2°, new filter 1° and tap 2°.
GH tank 9°, old filter 2°, new filter 1°, tap 2°.
pH tank 6.4, old filter 6.2, new filter 6.4, tap 6.8.

On Monday evening I tested the water before I took roughly 50% out of the tank to put it into the new Chi. Nitrate then was the normal 60 ppm. The last 20% water change was 8 days prior.
I just tested the water again, 42 hours after the 50% change, and it is at 40 ppm with both the API chemical kit and, as a check, an API test strip.
I have never tested the water immediately after a water change.

My tank is heavily planted and I am going to have to go in there and get the fish some more swimming room. I have 20# Flourite mixed with 5# pebbles for substrate. I have a little packet of Hagen phosphate absorber in the filter. I alternately dose at each water change with Kent Black Water Expert, TetraPlant FloraPride and Nutrafin Plant Gro. Occasionally when I have been working in the tank a lot I will throw in a little API Stress Coat+. I have a chunk of mopani wood in there. My CO2 system is DIY.

I am overstocked, 200% according to AqAdvisor and trying to cut back on feeding.

The filter is stock with the sponge for an emergency filter sitting on top of the grill to the bioballs to hopefully keep some bacteria in it in case I ever need it. I also have a UV sterilizer in there but it has bern running continuously for the past six months so isn't producing enough UV go kill anything.

 

[BigJim]

Since you have no nitrates in your tap water, I would up your PWCs to 30%-50% and do them every week religiously once you get your nitrates under control. Do several PWCs to get the nitrates down initially.

I would also consider removing some of your fish to reduce your bioload. SAEs get too big for a 14g.

 

[kc2ped]

i wdid 20% water changes daily for a week and that only got nitrates down to 40%

 

[BigJim]

You have to realize that your fish are putting out ammonia and the filter converts it to nitrates between your PWCs. 20% PWCs aren't cutting it with your stocking levels. I'm a math person:

Before PWC: 60ppm nitrate After 20% PWC: 48ppm nitrate

It's very possible that your fish are putting out 12ppm of nitrate per week bringing you back up to 60ppm nitrate before the next PWC.

Here's what I'd do:
Before PWC: 60ppm nitrate After 70% PWC: 18ppm nitrate

Wait 3 days, assuming nitrate output of 12ppm per 7 days you'd see
Before PWC: ~24ppm nitrate After 50% PWC: ~12ppm nitrate

After that I'd continue doing weekly 50% PWCs. Using the 12ppm of nitrate per week you'd be looking at something like this:
Before PWC: ~24ppm nitrate After 50% PWC: ~12ppm nitrate
This is in the acceptable nitrate range.

 

[kc2ped]

OK, I signed on to the BigJim program tonight
I took three buckets of water out of the tank, 21 quarts. By then I only had 2-2.5" of water over the substrate. All the plants that could had collapsed. The fish could only swim between the bases of the plants and were showing obvious signs of stress.
It took about 2.5 hours to make the replenishment water during which time I individually toothbrushed the algae on each of my foreground pebbles so it is nice and healthy and ready to spread to new areas of the tank, divided the Crispus for the Chi into multiple Crispi, had a glass of wine and read a chapter of Do Fish Feel Pain. I know for sure they experience stress.
I waited an hour to get good mixing of the old and new water and tested for nitrate.
When I hold the tube up to my chalk white wall it looks like 20 ppm, but when the light shines through the tube the color that appears projected on the wall is closer to 10 ppm, and when I hold the tube over the chart and look down through it is is a solid 40 ppm. So I am going to go with the middle value, 20 ppm.
I will test daily to see how fast it increases and do another major water change on Saturday.

 

[BigJim]

Doesn't the Brita method get expensive with new cartridges all the time? I would think an RO system, some buffers, and a holding tank would be cheaper and more convenient. I'm a Prime fan.

Hold the test tube against the white card and slide the colored squares behind the tube. The square that's hardest to make out through the liquid is your reading.

 

[kc2ped]

The cartridges are not cheap. I have not investigated RO to do a cost comparison. My space and outlets are limited though so storing quantities of water is not an option. Neither is hooking into the plumbing. And I would need a heater to keep the water about the same temperature ad the tank water. When I make the water up as I go I stick my finger into the backer of old water then under the faucet and in the end am generally within a degree of where the tank started out. I just tell the fish it rained upstream and the water will warm up shortly. Nobody seems to complain.

 

[kc2ped]

I did a 20% water replacement tonight (forgot I was supposed to be doing 50 so will have to do it again tomorrow) and nitrate was only up at 20 ppm. pH and GH are also lower.