cycling QT tank...

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new2betas

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Okay - I am now cycling my 2.5g tank that I got specifically to be a QT tank....once it is done cycling how do I keep it in cycle if there are no fish in it? Do I have to constantly keep putting ammonia in it until it is needed as a QT tank for a fish?
 
To keep it cycled you'll need to keep adding ammonia. Another option is to run the filter on an established aquarium and then just move it to the QT aquarium as needed. Of course if one of the fish that you QT ends up needing to be treated for a disease, then you'd need to sterilize the filter before putting it back on the main aquarium.
 
To keep it cycled you'll need to keep adding ammonia. Another option is to run the filter on an established aquarium and then just move it to the QT aquarium as needed. Of course if one of the fish that you QT ends up needing to be treated for a disease, then you'd need to sterilize the filter before putting it back on the main aquarium.

Just add a few ramshorn (any except pond snails) snails or Red CHerry Shrimp (RCS) to the tank. A few flakes of food every few days will be plenty to keep them happy. You won't have to worry about disease spreading to/from the RCS.
 
Just add a few ramshorn (any except pond snails) snails or Red CHerry Shrimp (RCS) to the tank. A few flakes of food every few days will be plenty to keep them happy. You won't have to worry about disease spreading to/from the RCS.

Do you mean to add these to the tank when it is done cycling? I have been adding straight ammonia for the last couple of days and my nitirites are getting up there as well. I guess I will need to wait until it finishes cycling before adding anything, correct? Once it has finished cycling is there any type of small (very small) fish I could add to the tank so I don't have to keep putting in ammonia all of the time? But, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of it being a QT tank as I would need it in case any of my fish from my 10g needed to be QT? Dis is all bery confusin'....:-?
 
Dis is all bery confusin'....:-?

I agree, although I guess the best options I've seen in this thread would be.
A:keep some shrimp in the tank to keep it cycled, since fish sickness doesn't effect shrimp or vice versa.
B: put the QT filter on the 10G then move it to the QT when needed, prob just leave the QT tank with minimal water to cover the gravel?


It is very confusing and complicated, like a hassle. It would be nice if others would share how they do it(for us noobs).
 
"To keep it cycled you'll need to keep adding ammonia. Another option is to run the filter on an established aquarium and then just move it to the QT aquarium as needed. Of course if one of the fish that you QT ends up needing to be treated for a disease, then you'd need to sterilize the filter before putting it back on the main aquarium."

To keep it cycled, just add a few shrimp, snails, or 1 or 2 small fish like Danios or guppies to replace the "ammonia". Use a small air-powered filter (small world makes a good, cheap one that will handle up to 5 gallons) to keep up water circulation. Moving gravel or filters from one tank to another only helps spread disease unless the aquarist cerifies through tesing with a microscope that all parts are free from dormant ICH cysts. Just because a tank looks clean and free from disease does not mean it is. Never swap items from a diseased tank to another. Its just asking for trouble. You might have sterilized everything but I'll bet you forgot to wash your hands. Keep the tank FULL. Bacteria adhere to all parts of the aquarium... keeping the water level low takes away much of the surface area used by the bacteria.


"I agree, although I guess the best options I've seen in this thread would be.
A:keep some shrimp in the tank to keep it cycled, since fish sickness doesn't effect shrimp or vice versa.
B: put the QT filter on the 10G then move it to the QT when needed, prob just leave the QT tank with minimal water to cover the gravel?"

A quaranteen tank and all its supplies is just that. A Q tank and its supplies should be for quaranteening sick, injured fish and plants. ALL parts should be kept seperate and away from your main tanks including nets. You put all that time, effort and money into having a great display tank full of plants, fish, invertebrates only to make that one tiny forgetful mistake and spread disease all over. If you are going to expend all the effort on having a super tank, why not spend a few minutes extra on your Q tank?


Do you mean to add these to the tank when it is done cycling? I have been adding straight ammonia for the last couple of days and my nitirites are getting up there as well. I guess I will need to wait until it finishes cycling before adding anything, correct? Once it has finished cycling is there any type of small (very small) fish I could add to the tank so I don't have to keep putting in ammonia all of the time? But, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of it being a QT tank as I would need it in case any of my fish from my 10g needed to be QT? Dis is all bery confusin'....:-?

If you have been doing a fishless cycle and have active ammonia in the tank.... finish the cycle that way and add everything afterwards. If you are not doing a fishless cycle, add them right away... even a totally uncycled tank. ONLY A FEW SMALL FISH (danios w/the exception of giant danios, guppies <they are much hardier than everyone gives them credit for>, small platies, etc). A dozen RCS would be ok for a new 5g tank.


"It is very confusing and complicated, like a hassle. It would be nice if others would share how they do it(for us noobs)."

Send me a PM and I'll help you through it. The original, easy way.

IMHO: Just say that you hae just completed your new tank. Cycled the "fishless" way... now you learn that you need a quaranteen tank for the new fish you just bought. The tanks and fish were not perfect at the LFS and 'might" have disease. You are unsure.
Do you add them to that new, sparkling and clean tank and risk spreading disease bad enough to waste another 4 months treating (only to have them die), then tearing it down and resetting or ar you going to rig up a spare Q tank that can be anything from a 1g glass, plastic bottle to a 40g plastic clothes storage box? Light bulb goes off in head: the plastic 40g storage box is UNcycled too....! Clean it out, fill it up, add a spare filter or a few airstones and cycle that WITH your fish. In the end any aquarist NEEDS to know how to set up a tank BOTH ways. What the pitfalls are and how to avoid them. Don't be so afraid of a little ammonia or nitrite. Do your water changes when needed and you will not have any problems.

More new tank problems are caused by unknowing people buying unhealthy LFS fish or overstocking to begin with. They end up with runaway ammonia and nitrite spikes caused by lack of knowledge, misinformation and crooked LFS employees.

"Dis is all bery confusin'"... Doesn't have to be... but it only comes from experience. Everyone is going to lose a fish now and then, no matter who they are.
 
Thanks kimo for that explanation. It does all make sense, but harder to "just do" if you are new like I am to this. I can see how little mistakes could really mess things up just by being careless. Hopefully, my 2.5g will be cycled soon, though, and I will be able to use it as my QT tank. I guess my main question still remains.....if I go ahead and cycle this QT tank then add some small fish to it so I don't have to keep adding ammonia all the time. I have those fish in there, but then one of my fish from my 10g gets sick and I have to move it to my QT tank. What about the fish that are in my QT tank...they would be in jeopardy of getting sick also. See what I mean...that is what is confusing me. I guess I should just add no fish to the QT tank when it is done cycling....just some shrimp and snails maybe...in case I have to treat a sick fish somewhere down the road.
 
You're welcome new2bettas! I think the easiest way to sort it all out is to make up a log of everything you do to the tank, no matter how small. There is a free program that you can download to make it alot easier. I use it all the time.

Aqualog v1.1
AquaLog

816 kb download for windows.

You could add just a snail and a few shrimp (10 is a good number for RCS to make sure you get at least a male/female)... or one or two male guppies. (adding a female would fill the tank in on time at all...lol) If a fish in one tank got sick you can always swap them out. But it also depends on what the fish is sick from. Sometimes (say: columnaris) you have to treat the whole tank as a precaution and moving one would just contaminate your Q tank.

Its just one of the reasons why I have been harping (sort of) on the board about why someone shouldn't use gravel, filter material, plants.... whatever and switch them from tank to tank to hasten the cycle. You never know when there could be an outbreak of disease even in the best kept of tanks.
 
QT tanks by definition are supposed to hold for relatively short periods of time sick fish

do not make the mistake to get a injured fish out in a qt tank, better get a rubber maid plastic bowl and put it there and do PWC's 50% every day

QT tanks are HOSPITALS, but in the fish world those are hospitals for diseased fish (or for fish that MIGHT be sick), and not for ALL fish
(this is a personal taste)


what personally I would do is
- do not cycle the tank
- buy a plastic 10 gallons container and age water (24-36 hrs) when you need it
- do PWC's 60% daily in the case you have a sick fish in QT, (use the aged water)
- do same in case you have new fish (from LFS or other)

keep new fish for 3-4 weeks in the QT,
keep sick fish in qt until they are no longer sick



once the QT period is over, get a high chlorine product and wash the tank's inside. (Cl2 turns into gas in 24-36 hours... so your tank will be proper ready for next QT in max 2 days)
do not forget to properly rinse (just in case)



why i am against cycling a QT
- most medications contain in small to very high amount bacteria killing agents. ALL bacterias die (including those that turn ammonia into n-ites and n-ites into n-ates = cycle was reduced to ZERO)
- you invest a lot of time and money to get the tank in shape, then you see a sick fish and your subconscient thinks he might not be that sick ... you worked so hard for the cycling ... better leave it in the tank for 2-3 more days. = FATAL ... most diseases need only those 2-3 more days in order to have everything infested.
- you need to have a ammonia generator in the tank (couple of fish ... invertebrates...) that at some point might need to be urgently swaped into another tank, because you see a urgent situation. = DANGER for the poor fish, you change him from 1 tank to one other tank that might have very different parameters (temp ph amo n-ites n-ates durity oxygenation salinity .........)
- when you need to QT a fish, best solution is to transfer some of the water from the old tank, and make sure your thermostat keeps the water at same temp BEFORE moving the fish. otherwise you just risk to kill your already weak fish


i am sorry for the long post
i have other stuff i want to add, but i am getting over the 10000 words/post limit ... so i better post now
those that want more of my opinions pls PM me
 
"QT tanks by definition are supposed to hold for relatively short periods of time sick fish

do not make the mistake to get a injured fish out in a qt tank, better get a rubber maid plastic bowl and put it there and do PWC's 50% every day

QT tanks are HOSPITALS, but in the fish world those are hospitals for diseased fish (or for fish that MIGHT be sick), and not for ALL fish
(this is a personal taste)"

Quaranteen tanks are not the place to hold sick fish. That is what a hospital tank is for. A Q tank is just that. A temporary place to hold fish for a 2-6 week period to:

1. Totally clean the gut out of previous food from all sources and check for internal parasites.
2. Give the fish time to recover any missing spots in the slime coat caused by netting and mis-handling.
3. Give the aquarist time to observe the behavior of the fish to make sure it is not carrying any hidden disease.
4. Making sure it is feeding properly.
5. Giving the fish time to acclimate to the aquarist's water and it's parameters.
6. These tanks can be either cycled or non-cycled. Normal water changes are made. Regular filtration with/without charcoal is used. Sterilization not necessary after use if fish pass inspection.

A hospital tank is just that. A place to isolate and TREAT known diseases.
Only fish that are diseased are placed in this tank. These tanks are never cycled (some meds will kill off the cycle). Water is not changed unless absolutely necessary, and then, any replacement water is adjusted to hold the right amount of medication. Strong filtration without charcoal is used.
Easiest way is to use a 5g rubbermaid plastic storage bin. It might stain from some of the medication dyes used. Sterilize after use.

Q tanks and H tanks are not the same.

"- you need to have a ammonia generator in the tank (couple of fish ... invertebrates...) that at some point might need to be urgently swaped into another tank, because you see a urgent situation. = DANGER for the poor fish, you change him from 1 tank to one other tank that might have very different parameters (temp ph amo n-ites n-ates durity oxygenation salinity .........)"

If an aquarist has a regular maintenance routine, all of his/her tanks should be close enough in pH, temperature, and stability where one fish can be transferred into any other one without danger of pH, temperature, or other type shock.

"- when you need to QT a fish, best solution is to transfer some of the water from the old tank, and make sure your thermostat keeps the water at same temp BEFORE moving the fish. otherwise you just risk to kill your already weak fish"

How do you know for sure that it isn't just your "old tank water" causing all the problems (TDS, high nitrates, etc)? Keeping them in the "old water" won't solve any of your problems. Put them into fresh, clean, newly treated aged water (same source, same temperature as the old) that is thoroughly oxygenated. See how fast the fish respond to that. "Old water syndrome" might be all that's wrong.
 
Just add a few ramshorn (any except pond snails) snails or Red CHerry Shrimp (RCS) to the tank. A few flakes of food every few days will be plenty to keep them happy. You won't have to worry about disease spreading to/from the RCS.

kimo - does it HAVE to be RCS or can it be any type? My tank is now cycled....yay!.....I checked the parameters this morning and it is ready to go...I am going to go to lfs today and get some snails (hopefully they have ramshorn) and some shrimp to put in it.
 
kimo,
me and you agree on the basics of this quarantine/hospital thing
what we do not have the same is the vocabulary.
in my vocabulary, Q/H are the same thing, but i must agree you are right, hospital is for hospital purposes, and q is for new fish.

the basics of the q tanks are defined by both of us perfectly the same, same for the H tanks.

related to the thread's question, Q tanks can and should be cycled, BUT will have to be cleaned if the incoming fish are NOT safe, H tanks should not be cycled, it's too much of a hassle, medication usually kills bacteria.



unrelated to the thread's question
i say: swaping fish from one tank to another is dangerous for fish.
you say: it's not, same aquarist usually keeps his tanks at same parameters
my answer: wrong! if you can tell me ALL your tanks have SAME parameters, i'll tell you you are not a good aquarist, most species need different water conditions.
plus, just the handling of the poor being is causing enough stress.
bottom line swaping fish from one tank to another is dangerous, i maintain my affirmation.



unrelated 2
you say
How do you know for sure that it isn't just your "old tank water" causing all the problems (TDS, high nitrates, etc)?
answer: simple, you take your liquid test kid and test it.
furthermore, it's a personal taste opinion, whilst i prefer starting with old tank water and doing PWC's you prefer starting with brand new water (aged/treated)
IMHO, whatever works is fine. in my experience my option worked perfectly fine for me.

all in all, thank you for commenting my post, it's a positive comment that i appreciate
 
kimo - does it HAVE to be RCS or can it be any type? My tank is now cycled....yay!.....I checked the parameters this morning and it is ready to go...I am going to go to lfs today and get some snails (hopefully they have ramshorn) and some shrimp to put in it.

It can be any type but RCS are more hardier and easier to care for than some of the others. Go with whatever you feel comfortable with.
Ramshorns sometimes come in with the plants. Regular pond snails might too but those can be carriers of disease, plus: 1 today, 1,000,000 tomorrow.
Good Luck!
 
"kimo,
me and you agree on the basics of this quarantine/hospital thing
what we do not have the same is the vocabulary.
in my vocabulary, Q/H are the same thing, but i must agree you are right, hospital is for hospital purposes, and q is for new fish.
the basics of the q tanks are defined by both of us perfectly the same, same for the H tanks.
related to the thread's question, Q tanks can and should be cycled, BUT will have to be cleaned if the incoming fish are NOT safe, H tanks should not be cycled, it's too much of a hassle, medication usually kills bacteria.

unrelated to the thread's question
i say: swaping fish from one tank to another is dangerous for fish.
you say: it's not, same aquarist usually keeps his tanks at same parameters
my answer: wrong! if you can tell me ALL your tanks have SAME parameters, i'll tell you you are not a good aquarist, most species need different water conditions.
plus, just the handling of the poor being is causing enough stress.
bottom line swaping fish from one tank to another is dangerous, i maintain my affirmation.

Kimo says: Swapping fish from one tank to another is not dangerous for the fish if done properly. Using the right sized net, one that minimizes damage to the slime coat, not chasing...
First: All my tanks maintain one type of fish - Fancy Guppies (with a few Neons and others thrown in). Moving one fish from one tank to another is not a problem. They are all the same.
IF: Tanks were set up species related, ie: rift lake cichlids (hard alkaline water, predatory type fish) I would not be putting Australian Rainbows, Discus, peaceful Tetras with them. I am a good aquarist because I research beforehand the required water quality and other specifics related to teh type fish that will go in the tank.

"unrelated 2
you say
How do you know for sure that it isn't just your "old tank water" causing all the problems (TDS, high nitrates, etc)?
answer: simple, you take your liquid test kid and test it.

Kimo's answer: "old tank water" is not the same as "old tank syndrome".
For a beginning aquarist... they usually don't even know what TDS is (Total Dissolved Solids). If they don't understand the cycle, they probably have never heard of ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, aerobic bacteria, aenorobic bacteria, etc. and don't have test strips, drops to test for it. They sure cannot afford electronic equipment to accurately test for TDS.
Just for the book: I don't even own a test kit. My tank maintainence schedule takes care of 99% of all problems long before they start.
btw: If you had a very densely planted tank with proper lighting from the beginning you would have to add fertilizers. You can maintain a tank that has never cycled a day in its life and is fully stocked with any fish you desire.

"furthermore, it's a personal taste opinion, whilst i prefer starting with old tank water and doing PWC's you prefer starting with brand new water (aged/treated)
IMHO, whatever works is fine. in my experience my option worked perfectly fine for me."

Both ways work fine as long as "old tank water", filter material, gravel does not contain pathogens. Unless it is tested with stains and a microscope, you can't say for sure wether or not there isn't any dormant ICH or other parasites lurking within... just waiting for a shot of fresh, new water to hatch.

all in all, thank you for commenting my post, it's a positive comment that i appreciate"

Thank you too for commenting... I try to write up my answers so that a person just coming to the forum, has no knowledge of fishkeeping, can understand and see both sides, maybe with new ideas.
 
awesome information and 2 way talking guys... I really do appreciate all the information and experiance lurking here
 
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