Cycling, Strange Readings?

[Dreamcat]

Hi everyone,

I am 15 days into a freshwater tank cycle, and I am having, what may be some strange readings.
I've had a saltwater tank for seven years (and have been lurking here even longer), and from what I remember, my saltwater cycle followed all the expected time tables.
Here's what I've got going on with this new tank:

• 29 gallon, standard rectangle
• 50 pounds Pool Filter Sand
• 1 x 165 Watt 50/50 CF
• 1 x 165 Watt Actinic CF
• Four Male Cherry Barbs
• Two Female Cherry Barbs
• Assorted Fake Bamboo Decor
• Assorted "Caves and Hidey-holes"

Now, I've always done fishless cycling in the past, but these guys were going to be "flushed" if I didn't take them off of someone's hands.
I had planned on setting up a freshwater tank, so I set up the tank, and on day 5 I added the Cherry Barbs.
The ammonia started to rise day after day, but their were no signs of Nitrites.
I did water changes every other day, and used Prime to detoxify the ammonia as best it can.
Two days ago (day 13), I finally got a .5 ppm Nitrite reading, but ammonia was still around 5.0 ppm.
Today, all of a sudden I have:

-Ammonia 5.0

-Nitrite (it's in the photo below, some weird hot purple color that doesn't match the chart colors = off the charts high?)

-Nitrate 100 ppm

The PH is pretty steady at about 8.2-ish.

What is perplexing me is what seems to be a nitrite spike, without an ammonia drop.
Plus, how the heck is Nitrate showing up so soon?

I have tested my tap water, prior to the Prime, and it reads about 2.5 on ammonia.

The fish seem to be doing fine.
Still active and healthy looking.
Still little pigs when I feed them.

I'm not sure whether I should add Prime as a detoxifier, even when not doing a water change.
Maybe add some salt, to help the fish with the high Nitrite?
If so, can I use the salt I use in my Saltwater aquarium?

I appreciate any thoughts/advice on this. Thanks for the great community here!

 

[jsoong]

My take is:
1. your nitrite is off the chart high. Dilute your water 2:1 or 4:1 & retest ... then multiply your result with the dilution factor to get a real reading.
2. High nitrite interferes with the nitrate test. There is no point testing for nitrates until your nitrites comes down.
3. The ammonia should be coming down soon. When you have sky high ammonia like that, it takes a while for ammonia to change. <Also, your ammonia level is close to off the chart, so it might be higher than you think to start.>
4. I suspect that your fish is doing OK because fo the daily use of Prime. This is binding NH3/NO2 so they are not toxic. FYI, Prime only lasts 24-48 hrs, so you need to dose daily to keep things safe. Personally, I would be doing a pwc daily as well to keep the levels lower.
5. If you want to use salt for nitrite, any chloride salt will do. <It is the Cl- that competes with NO2 to prevent poisoning.> So yes, marine salt will work even if it is not pure NaCl. <Or you can use kosher salt, sea salt, pickling salt ... or even overpriced aquarium salt .. >

And welcome to AA!!

 

[logansmomma1228]

Beautiful tank! I absolutely love the theme you have going on in there. My ammonia was 4ppm for a few days and the nitrites steadily climbed to 5, stayed there for a few days and then nitrates climbed and the tank is now cycled. I'm sure you wouldn't be so worried if there weren't fish in the tank.

I think jsoong has some great advice for you up there, and yes your nitrites sure look off the chart! lol

 

[Dreamcat]

thank you

Thanks for the advice and insight jsoong.
Before going to bed last night, I did a 2:1 diluted test for nitrites, and still got the same color! When I get home from work, I'm going to try a 4:1 dilution test.
I'll keep up with the Prime, and change to daily PWC's.

PS: Thanks logansmomma! I'm really pleased with how the tank turned out, for not having any real plants or driftwood. The fish seem to really enjoy frolicking in the "bamboo forest", and napping in the caves and huts. Using the PFS has a big impact on the look for me.

 

[Dreamcat]

Okay, it's been a couple more days of PWC and Prime, and I do have some changes.
Well, one change.
The ammonia is down to around 1.0 PPM or less.
The non-change is that, even at a 1/4 dilution, my nitrites are off the charts. Thank goodness for Prime, helping the Barbs keep swimming.
Hopefully those nitrate producing little monsters show up in great numbers soon, and gobble up some nitrites.
Thanks again for the help!

 

[Dreamcat]

Yesterday, cycle Day 19, ammonia measured somewhere below .25 ppm, but above zero.
Hopefully, tonight will be a zero reading.
Nitrites are still in the stratosphere, but the Prime is doing it's job so far, and the Barbs are staying strong.
Now begins the final wait for the nitrites to start dropping.

 

[mommytron]

Sounds like you've got everything under control. your tank looks great! do you really have 2 165w bulbs over your tank? i'm not really familiar with actinic light, but i'm pretty sure it's unnecessary for FW. i think having 330watts of light is a bit overkill as well!! especially with no plants in there. why do you have so much light??

 

[Dreamcat]

Last night, ammonia at zero, and nitrites still very high.
Almost there!

Thanks for the compliment mommytron!
I really do have that much wattage on there! lol
The lighting is a leftover fixture from a previous saltwater tank.
What I do is use the 50/50 bulb as a daytime light. It's gives a clean and sunshiney look.
The actinic is used on it's own for the day and night transistions. It's fairly dim, and casts some very convincing dusk/dawn shadows.
Also, I use blue LED's for after hours moonlights.
So far, the fish have not reacted negatively to any of the lighting conditions. They don't hide when it's brighter, so I think I have it at a level that is acceptable for them.

Tonight! Another water test! Joy!

 

[mommytron]

how are your fish doing with the nitrite? are you using salt?

that's really cooL! i'd love to see some pictures of all the different 'phases' of light on your tank! i bet it looks awesome at night.

 

[krap101]

Have you tried a second test kit for the nitrites? That might be the problem.

Also, if I remember correctly, plants can't use actinic, but algae can, and given the amount of light going in, I'd be careful. Otherwise, you might have meant that you turn your actinics on right before your tank lights go off, so that probably won't hurt anything.

Anyways, good luck

 

[Dreamcat]

Still at zero ammonia, and very high nitrite.
Interestingly, the PH (which was testing at 8.2), is now matching my tap water PH of 7.4, which is where I was hoping to be in the first place.

how are your fish doing with the nitrite? are you using salt?

that's really cooL! i'd love to see some pictures of all the different 'phases' of light on your tank! i bet it looks awesome at night.

I was going to use salt, but my daily doses of Prime seem to be keeping them healthy, so I decided not to add the salt.
I currently give the tank about 3 times the normal amount of Prime per gallon because of how high the the nitrites are.

I will have to take some photos showing the day/night cycle and post them up here.

Have you tried a second test kit for the nitrites? That might be the problem.

Also, if I remember correctly, plants can't use actinic, but algae can, and given the amount of light going in, I'd be careful. Otherwise, you might have meant that you turn your actinics on right before your tank lights go off, so that probably won't hurt anything.

Anyways, good luck

Even with a new test kit, it shows the very high nitrite, so I think it truly is that high. I test a couple times a day now, to watch for the eventual decrease of nitrites, and arrival of more nitrate instead.

And yes, I don't have the actinic and 50/50 on at the same time. I tried it, and it is reef tank bright. Which didn't look quite right for a FW tank.
I do, however, really like the "FW/SW blend" look that I get via the PFS and brighter than normal FW lighting.
I go for six hours a day on the lighting; between the dawn, day, and dusk times. The other 18 hours are LED moonlights. I'd prefer 8 to 10 hours of non-moonlight, but as you brought up, I am trying to be very cautious about algae growth.

Thanks again for the help, all!

 

[jsoong]

Still at zero ammonia, and very high nitrite.
Interestingly, the PH (which was testing at 8.2), is now matching my tap water PH of 7.4, which is where I was hoping to be in the first place.

Ammonia is basic, so during cycling, it can bump up the pH. Now that ammonia is gone, the pH is back to normal.

The nitrite phase lasts about twice a long as the ammonia phase IME. So more patience is needed. If you have a source, it might be worthwhile seeding again. The original seeding would have introduced both the nitrifying bacteria, but without nitirites (ie before the ammonia converting bacteria gets established) the nitrite eating bacteria might have died off. Seeding again might speed things up.

 

[Dreamcat]

The nitrite phase lasts about twice a long as the ammonia phase IME. So more patience is needed.

Okay, so it took 3 weeks to get to zero ppm ammonia.

I am now three weeks in to the "nitrite stage", and they are still over 5 ppm.
Is it the general consensus that I probably have another 3 weeks before the nitrates take over?

The barbs seem to be doing just fine, with their every other day doses of Prime.

 

[Dreamcat]

Today's water tests did not bode well for my cycle.
As you can see, the nitrites are still off the chart, that was expected.
I did not expect off the chart ammonia, or a very low pH.

Is it possible that one or more of my decor items are soaking up the bad stuff and leaking it back out?

Or is this a case of the cycle starting over in a way?

I had not done a water change today, and tested prior to see where things were at. These are the results...

 

[jsoong]

Only thing I have to add is: Did you test a sample of plain water to make sure this is not a test error??

It seems strange to see the NH3 coming back up after it had been down. Unless something happened to the biofilter ... Also the really low pH seems off ... did anything died in the tank?

If you had been doing regular pwc's all along, your pH should match your tap's pH of 7.5 ... something isn't quite right here. <Unfortunately, I don't have any great idea of what ....>