Cycling Tanks, Decisions, Decisions...

[bruinsbro1997]

Hello everyone!

So I have two tasks to do: cycle a twenty gallon long for my five year-old cousin's birthday, and the cycle my twenty high for myself. I kinda wanted to cycle them at the same time, becaue I will be in school in a month and it takes about a month to cycle, no? So I have a few questions.

My filter has three medias in there: a sponge, carbon, and floss with some sort of white pebbles in it. I was wondering if I could take out the carbon and the floss and cycle both of the tanks with it. Would there still be enough bacteria in the sponge to keep the tank from fluctuating in levels?

Also, do you think I should do a fish-less cycle or do a fish-in cycle? Since both the carbon and the floss have bacteria on them, do you think I could insta-cycle the tanks? How would you do that?

Thank you very much!

 

[eco23]

Can you figure out what the white pebbles are with a bit of research? If they're a media that absorbs ammonia, that might complicate things in 2 of the 3 tanks. In the established one that currently has them in it, ammo absorbing media would be a competing source and the bio-filter may not be as strong as you think. It would also, IMO, not be the best source of seeding material.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

I found out what they were, they are ceramic rocks that have been crushed up. Do these absorb ammonia?

 

[eco23]

Thats something I've personally never heard of, but if that's what it is...that's good! Ceramics are an awesome harbor for beneficial bacteria, different forms of ceramic media go in canister filters as the bio-media. It seems kind of odd to have it inside a cartridge since one of the points of ceramics is that it never has to be replaced, but just cause I've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, lol.

Here's the issues I think. If you have 3 forms of media in your current tank, removing two of them at once to donate could be a big shock and destabilize the tank you're removing them from. I also don't think a single filter would "insta-cycle" anything unless you plan on stocking VERY slowly. My understanding of that term is situations like if you had a second HOB filter running on your DT, and if you had to set up a hospital tank you could pull off the second filter and "insta-cycle" it.

I don't know the details of your set up, but I'd personally set the other two tanks up, dose them with ammonia and slowly start donating small pieces of media from the other tank. Do it slowly enough that the other tank has a chance to stabilize and the parameters don't jump.

The reason I think that'd be the best option as well is because the tank isn't going to be yours...the best gift would be to give a tank with a strong bio-filter you developed so you don't have to worry about your cousin (or his Mom and Dad) doing daily water changes if the donated media wasn't helping for a fish in cycle.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Thats something I've personally never heard of, but if that's what it is...that's good! Ceramics are an awesome harbor for beneficial bacteria, different forms of ceramic media go in canister filters as the bio-media. It seems kind of odd to have it inside a cartridge since one of the points of ceramics is that it never has to be replaced, but just cause I've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, lol.

Here's the issues I think. If you have 3 forms of media in your current tank, removing two of them at once to donate could be a big shock and destabilize the tank you're removing them from. I also don't think a single filter would "insta-cycle" anything unless you plan on stocking VERY slowly. My understanding of that term is situations like if you had a second HOB filter running on your DT, and if you had to set up a hospital tank you could pull off the second filter and "insta-cycle" it.

I don't know the details of your set up, but I'd personally set the other two tanks up, dose them with ammonia and slowly start donating small pieces of media from the other tank. Do it slowly enough that the other tank has a chance to stabilize and the parameters don't jump.

The reason I think that'd be the best option as well is because the tank isn't going to be yours...the best gift would be to give a tank with a strong bio-filter you developed so you don't have to worry about your cousin (or his Mom and Dad) doing daily water changes if the donated media wasn't helping for a fish in cycle.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I was thinking that too. I was thinking about putting some of my gravel into his tank and maybe let a filter cartridge run in my filter for a week so that way it will have some established media on it when I begin to cycle his tank.
Do you think it's better to get ammonia from Home Depot or to buy raw shrimp and use that as an ammonia source?

 

[eco23]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I was thinking that too. I was thinking about putting some of my gravel into his tank and maybe let a filter cartridge run in my filter for a week so that way it will have some established media on it when I begin to cycle his tank.
Do you think it's better to get ammonia from Home Depot or to buy raw shrimp and use that as an ammonia source?

Sounds good . 2 weeks is an ideal time IMO to seed a new filter. If time is a factor, the best way would be to actually add a new filter that you plan on keeping in the old tank. That way you can take a pair of scissors and cut out pieces of the old, donating a little at a time to the new, and you'll already have a replacement in the old tank to take over.

Pure ammo is always a better choice IMO. I don't think HD sells it, but if you've got an Ace Hardware nearby, that's your best bet. If you check out the guide in my sig, I go over a bit of what you want to avoid in a source of ammonia. There's reports of molds and fungus being caused by raw shrimp (plus it smells like rotting seafood), so a bottle of ammo is the only thing I'd use in my tanks.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Thanks for the reply again! Time is not really a factor, two weeks should be plenty of time to seed a filter and add it to the new tank. His birthday isn't for another month and two weeks, so I'm fine with waiting. Unfortunately, the nearest Ace Hardware near me is twenty miles away, so I don't have that option, is there any other pure ammonia I could get from another hardware store, possible Lowes or Home Depot? Thanks

 

[eco23]

Thanks for the reply again! Time is not really a factor, two weeks should be plenty of time to seed a filter and add it to the new tank. His birthday isn't for another month and two weeks, so I'm fine with waiting. Unfortunately, the nearest Ace Hardware near me is twenty miles away, so I don't have that option, is there any other pure ammonia I could get from another hardware store, possible Lowes or Home Depot? Thanks

I've never heard of big store like Home Depot or Lowes carrying it. Local hardware stores seem to be your best bet. The key is purity...make sure it has no dyes, perfumes, surfactants, detergents, etc...you want just water and ammonia in the bottle. When you shake it, if it foams it's no good, but don't go by that test alone...make sure you read the fine print.

Any LFS's near the Ace Hardware? Maybe a good excuse to drive over there and check it out?

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Haha nope the nearest LFS near Ace Hardware is ten miles away too. I really don't know where I could find some pure ammonia, I will have to ask my LFS to see if they have some.

 

[eco23]

Haha nope the nearest LFS near Ace Hardware is ten miles away too. I really don't know where I could find some pure ammonia, I will have to ask my LFS to see if they have some.

Lol, good luck with that. A LFS carrying ammonia would be a first for me. If they promoted fishless cycling they'd lose all the money from people buying "instant cycling" products, fish to replace the ones that die, chemicals to fix problems the fish shouldn't have, etc... I think a hardware store is your best bet. I have heard of Walgreens pharmacy carrying pure ammo...but I'm not sure. The kind I use is from Tru Value hardware. It is Blue Ribbon brand.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Well that's good, Walgreens is right near us and we can pass by it while my mom is doing her errands, hehe. That would be a shocker to me too, however I do think one of my LFS does promote cycling, not sure, but their tanks are always kept clean and I have never seen an insta-cycle brand on their shelves. I could be proven wrong though, I'm taking a visit there tomorrow.
Back on topic...so I will seed the filter media, add the gravel into the tank, add the ammonia, do PWC, moniter the levels with an API Master Kit, wait for nitrites and ammonia to go down, right? Also I read thet article you linked, what kind of plants do you think would do well in a beginners setup of a twenty gallon long with:
-five peppered cories
-ten zebra danios
-six cherry barbs
-40+ RCS
-1 DG

Anything else besides java fern and java moss that would do well???

 

[eco23]

Well that's good, Walgreens is right near us and we can pass by it while my mom is doing her errands, hehe. That would be a shocker to me too, however I do think one of my LFS does promote cycling, not sure, but their tanks are always kept clean and I have never seen an insta-cycle brand on their shelves. I could be proven wrong though, I'm taking a visit there tomorrow.
Back on topic...so I will seed the filter media, add the gravel into the tank, add the ammonia, do PWC, moniter the levels with an API Master Kit, wait for nitrites and ammonia to go down, right? Also I read thet article you linked, what kind of plants do you think would do well in a beginners setup of a twenty gallon long with:
-five peppered cories
-ten zebra danios
-six cherry barbs
-40+ RCS
-1 DG

Anything else besides java fern and java moss that would do well???

I think you've got the right idea about fishless cycling, but read over the guide a couple more times to get all the details.

Stock lighting definitely limits your plant choices, but you can check out www.plantgeek.net to give you an idea of some different low light plants.

I'd say the fish will put you right at your stocking limit, if not a bit over. Make sure you've got good filtration and a solid maintenance routine

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Definitely, I am getting paid to come over to their house and cleaning their tank once a week. My aunt is willing to spend some money to keep the fish from dying too. Will check the link again.

 

[jetajockey]

The little white rocks you are talking about, I think that's purigen. It's actually a really neat media that absorbs ammonia and is recharged with salt water once it's exhausted. I like using it for temporary holding tanks/QT's/shipping tanks.

 

[eco23]

The little white rocks you are talking about, I think that's purigen. It's actually a really neat media that absorbs ammonia and is recharged with salt water once it's exhausted. I like using it for temporary holding tanks/QT's/shipping tanks.

Since it absorbs ammonia, do you think that'd be an issue as seeded media for cycling a tank? Would you personally remove the granules if you were going to use it as established media for setting up a new tank?

 

[jetajockey]

Yes I would probably put it in a mesh bag, drop it in the tank, shake it up really good to try to break loose any bacteria that may be on it, remove it, recharge it, and save it for a toxin spike in the future.

It's really good stuff, but will throw you off on your readings, and defeats the purpose of building the biofilter through ammonia dosing. Chances are though with the levels dosed in fishless cycling method it's probably all used up in short order.