Cycling with Fish Advice 10 days in

[mattoid]

Hi All,
This is my first post so apologies if this is covered elsewhere, and apologies as I am at work! and don’t have the hardware info. Only been looking after fish for 6 months. I am currently cycling my planted 4 foot by 18” X 18” (240ltr, 64 US gal, 53 UK gal) tropical freshwater tank and am concerned that everything is a bit too good to be true. I started it 10 days ago with 4 neon tetras, no plants, an in tank filter capable of handling 400-600ltrs (105-158 US gal, 88-132 UK gal) and a very small internal filter for bacteria addition purposes that I was running for 3 months in a healthy 2 foot tank with another filter. 7 days ago I added 4 corys (2 bronze, 2 peppers). Only one 10% water change so far 1 week ago just prior to adding corys.
I was informed that this wouldn’t be enough ammonia input. 1 week ago I put the neons back in the 2 foot and replaced them with 10 serpae tetras and lots of plants leaving the corys in. They get fed nightly with discus food and algae wafers.
2 days ago I removed the small in tank to go back into the 2 foot and installed an external filter capable of handling up to 300ltrs (80 US gal, 66 UK gal). Due for second 10% water change tonight.
Due to a nitrate spike from helpful children feeding the 2 foot, I removed my 2 small angels last night and put them in the 4 foot hoping they would add some ammonia too. I take readings every 1 or 2 days including last night and there has been no change. Temp. sitting at 24-26C (75-79F), Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, ph 7.0-7.2 (reduced last night to 6.8). I thought I should at least see some ammonia by now given it has been over a week? Water is clean and soft from Yarra Ranges in Victoria, Australia if that helps.
Any input/help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[BBradbury]

Cycling a Tank with Fish

Hello mat...

Here's the procedure for cycling a tank with fish. Likely, you're familiar with the steps. The fish are in the tank and with your water testing kit, you test every day for traces of ammonia and nitrite. If you have a positive test, you remove one quarter of the water and replace that with treated tap water. The new water has to be free of chlorine and chloramine.

You continue to test daily and remove the water when necessary to keep the fish safe and to grow the bacteria colony that help use the ammonia and nitrite. When several daily tests show no traces of the either of these toxins, the tank is cycled. You still have roughly 3 weeks to go.

B

 

[mattoid]

Thanks B,
I was told a couple of times that I should start to spike within a week. There was still no registering of anything last night so I was getting concerned. I am only familiar with the steps in theory as when I started up my now healthy again 2 foot (nitrate down from 160ppm to 20-40ppm after 4 days), I was either ill-informed or most likely ignorant and lost my mollys by being impatient and stocking up after 1 week.
I am very new to this and have been reading as much as I can for the welfare of the fish if nothing else, and your very straight forward response puts those thousands of jigsawed tidbits of information into a cohesive way forward. Thanks!

matt...


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[Caliban07]

Thanks B,
I was told a couple of times that I should start to spike within a week. There was still no registering of anything last night so I was getting concerned. I am only familiar with the steps in theory as when I started up my now healthy again 2 foot (nitrate down from 160ppm to 20-40ppm after 4 days), I was either ill-informed or most likely ignorant and lost my mollys by being impatient and stocking up after 1 week.
I am very new to this and have been reading as much as I can for the welfare of the fish if nothing else, and your very straight forward response puts those thousands of jigsawed tidbits of information into a cohesive way forward. Thanks!

matt...


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When you say you added a small filter for bacteria input does this mean this filter and media has been used in an already cycled tank? If so than there is every possibility that the cycle has been sped up this way.

It sounds like the new stock for the 55g is smaller than where this other filter came from so this filter would cycle the tank pretty much instantly.

 

[Caliban07]

I just re-read your post. Sounds like the addition of seeded media has cycled the tank. Not too good to be true.

If you went and added enough fish that would overcome the bioload of the tank that small filter was used in you would expect to see a small rise in ammonia however, since the new stock is smaller then the tank will be cycled.

In a fish in cycle theoretically the cycle will not stop until you have added your last fish. Just stop slowly though same as usual but I can't really see you needing to worry too much now. May want to do another water change to replenish buffers. The nitrogen cycle will deplete kh in the water as time goes by which causes ph to fall like it is. If it drops any lower you face a potential crash. Even more important to watch out for if the source water is naturally soft.

 

[Caliban07]

Edit

Just STOCK slowly though as usual.

 

[mattoid]

Thanks Caliban07,
The tank that the small filter came from had dirty old goldfish and bristlenose amongst the others so had plenty of bio input (and some dirty carbon as I didn't realise until a week ago that this needed regular changing!). if there is still no change after another week, I will look at putting the neons back in with some buddies (14 total).
I haven't been testing for kh but it sounds like I should, and gh too for that matter. I don't really understand the importance of these without really looking in to it yet, but will.
if I am lucky enough to have a ready to go tank, I'll look at removing the larger internal a week after adding the neons and run the external only for another week before adding my bristlenose. Eventually I'll go for about 10 zebra danios, 6 more corydoras to make 10, and a couple of dwarf gouramis. I'd love any advice or thoughts on species as my knowledge so far comes from 'that looks good, I wonder if it's suitable for my tank'. And I am definitely understanding the importance of stock slowly now, especially after my Molly's carking it!




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[Caliban07]

In a nutshell kh (carbonate hardness) is the measure of carbonates in the water.

Ph is the measure of hydrogen ions or balance between hydrogen and hydroxyl ions. The more hydrogen ions the more acidic the water. If ph tries to fall a series of chemical reactions take place that effectively see carbonates grab hold of or bind with the hydrogen ions since there are now less hydrogen ions in the water the ph goes back up to where it was.

If ph tries to rise the opposite happens and carbonates disassociate with the hydrogen ions and because there are now more hydrogen ions in the water the ph goes back to where it was.

This is called buffering. Carbonates will try to achieve a particular ph value and keep it there depending on the carbonate. Sodium bicarbonate has a preferred ph value of 8.4 for eg.

Gh is the measure of mainly Calcium and magnesium in the water. The big 3 ph kh and gh usually go hand in hand so there either all high or all low. Gh in most aquaria doesn't have as much significance any more as most fish are farm bred in to all kinds of waters and are able to adapt easily. I've read things about hard water fishes eggs can suffer in soft water etc but I can't really comment on this. It's good to be aware if your waters mineral content if you keep plants also as you will most likely need to supplement with fertilisers if you have soft water.

 

[mattoid]

so much for a relaxing hobby with a few minutes attention each day! I think I'll pop down and pick up some tests. I am quickly understanding the difference between hobby and obsession, the water science alone is enough to incite minor obsessive tendencies.
Can the inclusion of certain rocks or spent mollusc shells aid in the stabilisation of kh and therefore ph? or are these items completely stable?


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[Caliban07]

so much for a relaxing hobby with a few minutes attention each day! I think I'll pop down and pick up some tests. I am quickly understanding the difference between hobby and obsession, the water science alone is enough to incite minor obsessive tendencies.
Can the inclusion of certain rocks or spent mollusc shells aid in the stabilisation of kh and therefore ph? or are these items completely stable?


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Precisely. Lava rocks and crushed coral will work. You can buy both from the fish shop. Don't get too worked up about it though I'm just making you aware. Keep your eye in your parameters and see how your tank reacts. It may just be a simple water change that will replenish buffers and nutrients.

The biology and chemistry side to the hobby is very interesting Indeed.

Bed time for me.

If you have anymore questions feel free others may chime in too.