cycling with septic tank products

[dax29]

Okay. I've been trying to find some info on septic tank products that contain bacteria for cycling a new aquarium. The one I was initially told about was Wasteban or Waste Ban (WB). I actually watched a wholesaler and breeder of cichlids sprinkle some in a tank of young peacocks 2 weeks ago, the fish actually ate some of it and still seem to be doing okay. Has anyone else tried this product? Are other products like Rid X the same as Waste Ban? I have seen several products at Lowes, Home Depot, and others that aren't the same brand as WB but I'm afraid to use them. I have used Bio-Spira twice with good results, and I don't think these products work as fast, but they could be used to speed things up a bit and at a fraction of the cost. I think this topic deserves more looking into.

 

[Meredith]

I would be afraid to use septic products too. Unless you can get some concrete documentation on how to do it and the results/side effects if any, I wouldn't do it. You could also write to some of the companies that make rid X and so one and see what they say.

 

[CGGorman]

See if you can an MSDS sheet for the product(s). That should give you a good idea of what's in it and what dangers it presents. Every product manufactured must have an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) avaialable. Normally, you will have to contact the company and request it, though. If the product is commonly used in commercial facilities (factories, restaurants, etc.), it may even come packaged with the MSDS. The amount of data on one of those sheets is staggering.

 

[QTOFFER]

AFAIK, those non-chemical septic products contain enzymes and ANAEROBIC bacteria in a pH-stabilized solution. I don't think they'd affect the cycle since nitrifying bacteria are AEROBIC.

If you google Rid-X and Aquarium, you'll find bunch of links about pond maintenance. Apparently those folks use it to help break down pond bottom muck.

 

[malkore]

And that bottom muck is probably a couple inches down, where its anaerobic.

All you need is plain, unscented household ammonia to fishless cycle a tank.

 

[BillD]

I think the idea is that these products are a source of bacteria, not ammonia. A bit of garden soil will seed the new filter if you have no existing filter to get some crud from.

 

[dax29]

I wondered about that. The anaerobic nature of the bacteria that are required to break down septage would not work well in an aerobic environment. Anyway, here are some threads from the cichlid-forum.com that address the subject. It seems many have had good success with this strategy, so far as speeding things up on cycling at a reduced cost.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=42916&highlight=septic+cycling
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41911&highlight=septic+cycling
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=76797&highlight=septic+cycling

 

[QTOFFER]

Hmmm. Strange that it seems to work, since the septic products really contain the wrong type of bacteria (anaerobic). My guess is that they are contaminated with a certain amount of aerobic nitrifying bacteria.

 

[tropicfishman]

or ya could just wait like 2 weeks lol and let it cycle naturally lol

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Hmmm. Strange that it seems to work, since the septic products really contain the wrong type of bacteria (anaerobic). My guess is that they are contaminated with a certain amount of aerobic nitrifying bacteria.

One of the links has the ingredients in the product. I did the search on "Bacteria enzymes cesspool septic tank cleaning" and the first link in google brought up the site with the ingredients. There are both Aerobic and Anaerobic bacteria in the product.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

http://www.amerisep.com/septic-free.html

Aerobic Bacteria 1.5 Billion/Gram
Anaerobic Bacteria 1.5 Billion/Gram
Total Bacteria (minimum) 3 Billion/Gram

 

[Magus Rex]

Okay. I've been trying to find some info on septic tank products that contain bacteria for cycling a new aquarium. The one I was initially told about was Wasteban or Waste Ban (WB). I actually watched a wholesaler and breeder of cichlids sprinkle some in a tank of young peacocks 2 weeks ago, the fish actually ate some of it and still seem to be doing okay. Has anyone else tried this product? Are other products like Rid X the same as Waste Ban? I have seen several products at Lowes, Home Depot, and others that aren't the same brand as WB but I'm afraid to use them. I have used Bio-Spira twice with good results, and I don't think these products work as fast, but they could be used to speed things up a bit and at a fraction of the cost. I think this topic deserves more looking into.

Rid X is great for aquariums. But, I would not use for cycling though. It is really for maintenance. I have a 125 Gallon tank now but have had up to 3x125 gallon tanks going in the past. I like to have my tanks heavily loaded with fish, So my Filtration is thus for a 125 gallon tank... 3 Perfect Flow gravel plates, 3 Penguin 1140 power heads, one attached to each. 4" average gravel bed thickness throughout. 2x Aquaclear 500's (now called aquaclear 110s) hanging on the back. The power filters hanging on the back keep the tank very clean of debris, The power heads and 4 " gravel bed is strictly for maintaining a huge bio filter which allows for such dense fish populations as well as for massive water changes without upsetting the biological platform established in the tank. My water changes are usually 75% with a sump pump. I have a large tigher oscar, a large green terror, and 25 other cichlids that are 2-4 inches in length. The water quality is so good that algae hardly ever even starts to form on the glass. I water change once every 3 months. I clean both the power filter sponges and stir the gravel up at the same time. And guess what ammonia and nitrite levels never are even perceptible. If nitrate levels go high, the final product of the cycle, then algae will start to bloom on the glass, signalling time for a water change. The cichlids in my tank breed all the time, I mean all the time.The tank is super low maintenance.. How is this possible. Rid X septic tank bacteria, 4 x heaping tablespoons once a month. Those bacteria are not going to cycle the tank in keeping ammonia and Nitrite levels down. What that bacteria does is break down oils, fats, wood and paper, etc....; it is designed to liquify the bulky part of human waste. Well that bulky part called scat is a product of fish as well. It doesn't all convert to ammonia and nitrate. Using Rid X keeps the power filters from clogging and the gravel filter healthy because those bacteria eat and liquify the bulk part of fish scat. By working harmoniously together with the 2 bacterial strains that actually convert the ammonia (nitrosomonas) and the Nitrite (nitrobacter) you bring nearly all of your fish waste into a liquid form so that the water changes have more effect not to mention the reduced work and back pressure being put on all the mechanical filters and pumps. The gravel beds stay cleaner and healthier. Rid X is non pathogenic meaning it is non disease causing. Also another helpful hint, use this aquarium water to water flowers, herbs and other plants when your water change comes due.

 

[Magus Rex]

Rid X is great for aquariums. But, I would not use for cycling though. It is really for maintenance. I have a 125 Gallon tank now but have had up to 3x125 gallon tanks going in the past. I like to have my tanks heavily loaded with fish, So my Filtration is thus for a 125 gallon tank... 3 Perfect Flow gravel plates, 3 Penguin 1140 power heads, one attached to each. 4" average gravel bed thickness throughout. 2x Aquaclear 500's (now called aquaclear 110s) hanging on the back. The power filters hanging on the back keep the tank very clean of debris, The power heads and 4 " gravel bed is strictly for maintaining a huge bio filter which allows for such dense fish populations as well as for massive water changes without upsetting the biological platform established in the tank. My water changes are usually 75% with a sump pump. I have a large tigher oscar, a large green terror, and 25 other cichlids that are 2-4 inches in length. The water quality is so good that algae hardly ever even starts to form on the glass. I water change once every 3 months. I clean both the power filter sponges and stir the gravel up at the same time. And guess what ammonia and nitrite levels never are even perceptible. If nitrate levels go high, the final product of the cycle, then algae will start to bloom on the glass, signalling time for a water change. The cichlids in my tank breed all the time, I mean all the time.The tank is super low maintenance.. How is this possible. Rid X septic tank bacteria, 4 x heaping tablespoons once a month. Those bacteria are not going to cycle the tank in keeping ammonia and Nitrite levels down. What that bacteria does is break down oils, fats, wood and paper, etc....; it is designed to liquify the bulky part of human waste. Well that bulky part called scat is a product of fish as well. It doesn't all convert to ammonia and nitrate. Using Rid X keeps the power filters from clogging and the gravel filter healthy because those bacteria eat and liquify the bulk part of fish scat. By working harmoniously together with the 2 bacterial strains that actually convert the ammonia (nitrosomonas) and the Nitrite (nitrobacter) you bring nearly all of your fish waste into a liquid form so that the water changes have more effect not to mention the reduced work and back pressure being put on all the mechanical filters and pumps. The gravel beds stay cleaner and healthier. Rid X is non pathogenic meaning it is non disease causing. Also another helpful hint, use this aquarium water to water flowers, herbs and other plants when your water change comes due.

For quick cycling here's how to do it for a heavy fish loading into a tank quickly. this will set a massive good bacterial filter to be established. First and some of you may think that this is gross, but it is just waste. Urinate yourself into a mason jar, which should be about 3/4 full. Why? because the nitrosomonas the first bacteria in the nitrogen cycle to convert waste, start with ammonia and need it to feed on. We want the nitrosomonas to grow crazy in the tank, so hit the new tank with a triple shot of cycling bacteria and the 3/4 mason jar of urine. Within 12 to 18 hours you wil see that tank has turned milky white like someone diluted a gallon of milk in the tank. What is this? It is a huge monstrous bacterial bloom of the good kinds of bacteria. The Nitrosomonas has gone crazy and is multiplying and thereby creating lots of bad nitrite to feed the nitobacter bacteria, which is now growning out of control (a good thing). This all amounts to a tank that is safe for heavy fish loading at 24 hours from the time that the urine and cycle bacteria were introduced. Your mechanical filter media and the gravel bed are fully populated and there are lots of free flowing bacteria in the water. Now add large quantities of fish, who through respiration will all start outputting all kinds of nastiness into the water, where you have a kings army of bacteria waiting to eat it all up and convert it to relatively harmless nitrate. Now over a period of approximately 3-5 days the tank will clear up more and more as the population of bacteria continues to decreases. The bacteria levels will slowly drop during this period because you initially fed them huge amounts of food (urine) and then later only the amount of food or waste the bacteria is being fed is the product of fish respiration combined with uneaten fish food. The bacteria load will stabilize, and as it does so your water clears and your gravel bed (only for bacterial colony not tank cleaning) will have a great coating of the good kinds of bacteria. One week after tank has cleared, start applying Rid X to the tank, which will also establish itself into the mechanical filters and the gravel bed. These bacteria feed on the hard waste and break it down keeping the water flow though the gravel bed moving keeping the cycle bacteria healthy. These bacterial also colonize the power filters and literally eat them clean, leaving only the completely non digestible material behind and reducing the frequency of filter cleaning 3 to 4 fold. Also cleaning those sponge filter media is not as nasty either as its more akin to mud and doesn't retain any nasty odors or anything. If you have a planted tank (hard to do with the vandalistic cichlids) those plants will love the 4" gravel bed for root propagation and and will also eat up the Nitrate reducing the need for frequent water changes and complete the nitrogen cycle, also starving nitrate to feed any algae.

 

[Magus Rex]

For quick cycling here's how to do it for a heavy fish loading into a tank quickly. this will set a massive good bacterial filter to be established. First and some of you may think that this is gross, but it is just waste. Urinate yourself into a mason jar, which should be about 3/4 full. Why? because the nitrosomonas the first bacteria in the nitrogen cycle to convert waste, start with ammonia and need it to feed on. We want the nitrosomonas to grow crazy in the tank, so hit the new tank with a triple shot of cycling bacteria and the 3/4 mason jar of urine. Within 12 to 18 hours you wil see that tank has turned milky white like someone diluted a gallon of milk in the tank. What is this? It is a huge monstrous bacterial bloom of the good kinds of bacteria. The Nitrosomonas has gone crazy and is multiplying and thereby creating lots of bad nitrite to feed the nitobacter bacteria, which is now growning out of control (a good thing). This all amounts to a tank that is safe for heavy fish loading at 24 hours from the time that the urine and cycle bacteria were introduced. Your mechanical filter media and the gravel bed are fully populated and there are lots of free flowing bacteria in the water. Now add large quantities of fish, who through respiration will all start outputting all kinds of nastiness into the water, where you have a kings army of bacteria waiting to eat it all up and convert it to relatively harmless nitrate. Now over a period of approximately 3-5 days the tank will clear up more and more as the population of bacteria continues to decreases. The bacteria levels will slowly drop during this period because you initially fed them huge amounts of food (urine) and then later only the amount of food or waste the bacteria is being fed is the product of fish respiration combined with uneaten fish food. The bacteria load will stabilize, and as it does so your water clears and your gravel bed (only for bacterial colony not tank cleaning) will have a great coating of the good kinds of bacteria. One week after tank has cleared, start applying Rid X to the tank, which will also establish itself into the mechanical filters and the gravel bed. These bacteria feed on the hard waste and break it down keeping the water flow though the gravel bed moving keeping the cycle bacteria healthy. These bacterial also colonize the power filters and literally eat them clean, leaving only the completely non digestible material behind and reducing the frequency of filter cleaning 3 to 4 fold. Also cleaning those sponge filter media is not as nasty either as its more akin to mud and doesn't retain any nasty odors or anything. If you have a planted tank (hard to do with the vandalistic cichlids) those plants will love the 4" gravel bed for root propagation and and will also eat up the Nitrate reducing the need for frequent water changes and complete the nitrogen cycle, also starving nitrate to feed any algae.

how will you know the tank is ready to have fish in it. You use your old trusty nose. lift the lid and stick your nose close the water and inhale. if the water has any trace smell of waste, its not ready for fish. Good clean properly bacterial laden water will smell like good gardening soil on a warm day. Not kidding. Hope this helps!

 

[Magus Rex]

how will you know the tank is ready to have fish in it. You use your old trusty nose. lift the lid and stick your nose close the water and inhale. if the water has any trace smell of waste, its not ready for fish. Good clean properly bacterial laden water will smell like good gardening soil on a warm day. Not kidding. Hope this helps!

One last thing, I've been doing all of this for 12 years and in that 12 year period have only lost maybe 4 fish and none ever to cycling a tank. 8 years ago I stopped using 100 feeder fish (roseys) to create the needed ammonia to explode the bacteria levels. It was for ethical reasons to try to not kill any living thing that I am either no eating or trying to protect myself from. So to all people that think that using a little human urine is too icky, just remember that its a lot easier to clean your hands than to clean your soul.

 

[Magus Rex]

One last thing, I've been doing all of this for 12 years and in that 12 year period have only lost maybe 4 fish and none ever to cycling a tank. 8 years ago I stopped using 100 feeder fish (roseys) to create the needed ammonia to explode the bacteria levels. It was for ethical reasons to try to not kill any living thing that I am either no eating or trying to protect myself from. So to all people that think that using a little human urine is too icky, just remember that its a lot easier to clean your hands than to clean your soul.

I know I said one last thing but this is it for real, MAKE SURE YOU DE-CHLORINATE YOUR WATER FIRST AND FORE MOST! Also in preparation all living things including fresh water fish need a little salt. Salt is an electrolyte and electrolytes are needed for healthy cellular functions, metabolism, and gill health. I use 1 cup of API Aquarium salt per 50 gallons of water. 2 cups in a 125 gallon tank as you have to account for lost volume due to gravel bed and decorations. NEVER use commercial ammonia from a bottle to rapidly cycle a tank. Don't forget to use mineral and trace elements, they will keep your fish more healthy as well, not to mention more vibrantly colored. This amount of salt has no ill effects on all the catfish species, be they speckled, corys, or the like. None of this advice is applicable to Discus fish.

 

[Magus Rex]

I know I said one last thing but this is it for real, MAKE SURE YOU DE-CHLORINATE YOUR WATER FIRST AND FORE MOST! Also in preparation all living things including fresh water fish need a little salt. Salt is an electrolyte and electrolytes are needed for healthy cellular functions, metabolism, and gill health. I use 1 cup of API Aquarium salt per 50 gallons of water. 2 cups in a 125 gallon tank as you have to account for lost volume due to gravel bed and decorations. NEVER use commercial ammonia from a bottle to rapidly cycle a tank. Don't forget to use mineral and trace elements, they will keep your fish more healthy as well, not to mention more vibrantly colored. This amount of salt has no ill effects on all the catfish species, be they speckled, corys, or the like. None of this advice is applicable to Discus fish.

Good Grief ! OK this is the Last,.... Remember that salt does not evaporate and should not be applied to make up water due to evaporation. Only use the salt on the water changes, a 125 gallon tank with gravel and decorations as stated above needs about 1.5 cups, use only aquarium salt as a rule as it does not have anti caking agents and the like added to it. It doesn't cost much and you don't use much for fresh water fish keeping. Also don't use all those high dollar products for cleaning the "scale" from your fish tank glass and hood items. Good old white vinegar costs about a buck a gallon. Wet the clean wash rag (keep some rags that have never seen soap under your tank for cleaning purposes.) Heavily wet the washrag but not so much that its dripping all over the place. Clean and scrub away. The slightly acidic nature of the vinegar breaks the electro-molecular bonding of the vast majority of white water scaling (the result of evaporation) causing them to just dissolve away into the rag, then hit glass with clean wet rag and then dry. Don't be like you are diffusing a nuclear device around the canopy glass and power cords either, a little vinegar won't hurt any of these and even if you dropped the rag into the tank and and immediately retrieved it, there is not enough acid to affect the PH of a tank larger than 10 gallons in capacity. As I don't like wasting my day doing menial chores either. Here's how I do a water change... Sump pump to 100 ft garden hose, and i water all my wife's flowers, herbs, any bad spots in the grass as this fish water is like steroids for plants way better than using miracle grow. I've watered several plants over years and not watered the one's next to them with the fish tank water as an experiment. Old tank water equals yum yum for plants! They grow double in size and thickness. Then I use my water conditioner solution, I use pond chemicals and do the math to find out how much to use for my tank at 50 gallons or approximately 1/2 of my water change. Take garden hose hooked up to house and have it ready at the tank. Start blasting into corner of tank and immediately add the capful of conditioner. Fish will go to the other side of the tank. Once the tank is half full, pour you next conditioner capful for remaining 50 gallons of water into the torrent of water coming out of the hose. Fill tank to top, have a shut off adapter at the end of the hose going into the tank, please learn from my hard lessons, do not have your teenager or buddy manning the water faucet at the side of the house. That is a recipe for overfilling a tank and getting your floor wet! I don't pussyfoot around with the tanks. I've had goldfish, mollies, platys, swords, you name it and like I said I heavily load my tanks with fish. I almost never have ever had an issue with disease (only 2 times in 12 years) and those were cause by using live feeder fish. I have found that the cichlids that I keep periodically need "the hunt" to keep their overall healthy and activity levels up. It boosts inquisitiveness and alertness. Twice a year I drop about 200 rosey minnows in the tank, by the next morning 1/2 are gone and in the course of the next week the rest are gone as well. Tank stability stays steady as a rock. Since the feeder fish are not being killed indiscriminately but as food, no different than I going to steak house for dinner, i don't have a problem with it.

 

[Magus Rex]

Good Grief ! OK this is the Last,.... Remember that salt does not evaporate and should not be applied to make up water due to evaporation. Only use the salt on the water changes, a 125 gallon tank with gravel and decorations as stated above needs about 1.5 cups, use only aquarium salt as a rule as it does not have anti caking agents and the like added to it. It doesn't cost much and you don't use much for fresh water fish keeping. Also don't use all those high dollar products for cleaning the "scale" from your fish tank glass and hood items. Good old white vinegar costs about a buck a gallon. Wet the clean wash rag (keep some rags that have never seen soap under your tank for cleaning purposes.) Heavily wet the washrag but not so much that its dripping all over the place. Clean and scrub away. The slightly acidic nature of the vinegar breaks the electro-molecular bonding of the vast majority of white water scaling (the result of evaporation) causing them to just dissolve away into the rag, then hit glass with clean wet rag and then dry. Don't be like you are diffusing a nuclear device around the canopy glass and power cords either, a little vinegar won't hurt any of these and even if you dropped the rag into the tank and and immediately retrieved it, there is not enough acid to affect the PH of a tank larger than 10 gallons in capacity. As I don't like wasting my day doing menial chores either. Here's how I do a water change... Sump pump to 100 ft garden hose, and i water all my wife's flowers, herbs, any bad spots in the grass as this fish water is like steroids for plants way better than using miracle grow. I've watered several plants over years and not watered the one's next to them with the fish tank water as an experiment. Old tank water equals yum yum for plants! They grow double in size and thickness. Then I use my water conditioner solution, I use pond chemicals and do the math to find out how much to use for my tank at 50 gallons or approximately 1/2 of my water change. Take garden hose hooked up to house and have it ready at the tank. Start blasting into corner of tank and immediately add the capful of conditioner. Fish will go to the other side of the tank. Once the tank is half full, pour you next conditioner capful for remaining 50 gallons of water into the torrent of water coming out of the hose. Fill tank to top, have a shut off adapter at the end of the hose going into the tank, please learn from my hard lessons, do not have your teenager or buddy manning the water faucet at the side of the house. That is a recipe for overfilling a tank and getting your floor wet! I don't pussyfoot around with the tanks. I've had goldfish, mollies, platys, swords, you name it and like I said I heavily load my tanks with fish. I almost never have ever had an issue with disease (only 2 times in 12 years) and those were cause by using live feeder fish. I have found that the cichlids that I keep periodically need "the hunt" to keep their overall healthy and activity levels up. It boosts inquisitiveness and alertness. Twice a year I drop about 200 rosey minnows in the tank, by the next morning 1/2 are gone and in the course of the next week the rest are gone as well. Tank stability stays steady as a rock. Since the feeder fish are not being killed indiscriminately but as food, no different than I going to steak house for dinner, i don't have a problem with it.

and here's a trick to get an incredible increase in performance from your Aquaclear 110 or other Aquaclear power filter. Use 2 super strong rare earth magnets which can be found at any children's science store, on the right side of the filter media holder. Put one on the inside and one on the outside of the filter itself. This will prevent the sponge holder from coming up, rising and lifting the lid after it gets a little dirty. It will hold it in place, then you just watch the overflow channel near the uplift tube. When water starts returning to the tank from this channnel in a heavy manner, a light flow is ok. Then you know the sponge is really loaded with waste and needs cleaning. Don't discard the sponge and put a new one in, just take it to the backyard and blast it with the garden hose until it is clean. No additional nastiness is incurred this way and it is definitely more economical.