Degenerating Discus

[amoaudio]

My mid-sized Discus has slowly been deteriorating over the past month. It started out with a general loss of color, which got gradually worse. Then i started to notice his fins starting to split. Now I'm starting to notice his eyes getting a little bit cloudy.

I'm almost done my second full treatment with MelaFix and PimaFix, which seemed to help the color a little bit but the fin splitting has steadily gotten worse...

All my water parameters are normal and all my other fish are perfect. temp is 83° and i am using Kent Discus Essential once a week.

Could it be TB? On the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals website it says MetaFix and PimaFix can cure Fish TB... Does it work?

 

[BrianNY]

One thing discus need is very clean water. How much water do you change and how often? The likelihood is the discus has hex (very common in discus). Also 83 is a little cool for a sick discus.

I would do a 50% water change and start bumping the temp up to 88. Do you have a hospital tank you can use? How large is the tank it's in now?

 

[amoaudio]

It's a 30 gal tank. I do a 20% water change twice a week. should i continue with the MelaFix and PimaFix if it is hex?

 

[BrianNY]

I would discontinue the melatix and pimafix. I would remove the discus to a hospital tank and treat with heat and salt. Really that fish needs at least 88 degrees for a few days. Add 2 tbspns per 10 gallons of non iodized salt. Do you have a hospital tank? What other fish are in the tank now? I'm really trying to help you.

 

[amoaudio]

I appreciate your help a lot. I don't have a hospital tank set up, but I have increased the temperature to around 88°. I'll add the aquarium salt after i do a water change.

The other fish in the tank are 9 neon tetras, a pleco, and a bolivian ram.

anything else i can do to help with the recovery?

 

[BrianNY]

Well, to be honest I'm concerned about the neons handling that high a temp, and the pleco handling the salt. Discus need lots of water changes and what you're describing is what typically happens to them when the water isn't changed. I change at least 30% in all my discus tanks daily, but I do have a larger bioload.

Discus can go quite awhile without eating and sometimes bounce back. Good Luck.

 

[amoaudio]

Well i am hopeful because he seems to still be hungry (although he is only heating bloodworms, not the discus pellets). Thanks for all your advice, I will let you know how it goes...

I'm not as worried about my neons because they are a dime a dozen, and my pleco's health has been untouchable the whole time i have had him, and i have treated my tank with salt many times... so hopefully there is a happy ending to this post... Thanks again.

 

[ChileRelleno]

Listen to BrianNY, he is the Discus guru around here.

 

[shawmutt]

I'm wondering if a 30 gallon is big enough for a discus and all those other fish.

Do you use tap water for all those water changes? What exactly are the parameters of the water?

 

[BrianNY]

I think a single discus in 30gal is fine, even with the other fish. I do see a number of problems that to be honest almost all newbie discus keepers make. I made the same mistakes with my first couple of discus myself. It's just hard to buy into the fact that they are so finnicky about clean water.

Discus are expensive. Most newbies will buy young fish for that reason. Younger fish are even less tolerant of bad water. Any substrate at all tends to complicate things as do other fish.

Discus produce a very heavy body slime. Discus fry feed off this slime the first few weeks of their lives. This slime can also be a breeding ground for bacteria. It tends to collect on whatever is in the tank. For that reason it's important to regularly wipe down the glass and keep the filters clean. I didn't become successful raising discus until I started keeping them in barebottom tanks with no other species. I only keep fully grown adults in my show tank with other fish. This is a planted tank and the plants help. I only do weekly water changes in this tank.

Generally the sign that a discus is in stress are the cloudy eyes. Do a big water change if you see that again amoaudio. The fact the fish is still eating is an excellent sign. Discus are really quite hardy and I've seen them bounce back from some awful looking conditions. The temperature is another problem. They seem to be more susceptible to diseases if kept under 84 degrees.

HTH

 

[amoaudio]

Yes i got it when it was very small (1 1/2") and i've had it for a while with very little trouble until now... It's now around 3".

An update on the situation:
I did a 50% water change, increased to 88°, and added aquarium salt. All today it looked alot better, it's not pitch black anymore. And it seemed to be more active. But... now i've noticed that it's swimming is becoming irregular. It is bumping into rocks and doesn't get spooked by quick movements outside the tank like it usually does...

How bad is that? what do you think his chances are?

 

[BrianNY]

It's impossible to say amoaudio. Just know that you're doing what you can. I would keep the temperature at 88 for a while and do daily water changes. Also, you should have airstone or something bubbling in that tank. The higher temp depletes O2 in water rather quickly. We don't the fish stressed from O2 deprivation.

Keep me posted.

 

[amoaudio]

well, its been a couple weeks now and i have increased the temperature to 88°, and have been treating with aquarium salt. One of my neon tetras died probably from the heat but i'm not too concerned about that. I have been doing water changes often (about 20% daily).

The thing is, i haven't seen any improvement in my discus... it sometimes looks healthier, but its tail keeps splitting more and more. every so often (like today) it will start to swim randomly and even start to swim off axis...

could it be fish TB? I just wonder because of the very slow onset of the disease... If anybody knows anything else i can do please tell me! thanks.

 

[BrianNY]

Unless the fish has open sores and is becoming misshapen in the spine, I doubt it's TB.

The simple fact is that 20% water changes are useless. The quality of your water is the problem. If you want to save that fish you'll have to increase the daily water changes to 40-50%. Clean all your filters. Wipe down the glass.

Try bumping the temp up to 90 for 10 days. Keep the salt treatment going. Add the melafix (it can't hurt).

 

[amoaudio]

will do. Thanks BrianNY for your help.