Desperate help needed ! Tank cycle crashed. Cant get 'fish-in cycle' to start

[Colin_T]

Just been reading through this.
I assume the filters are running continuously (24/7) and aren't being turned off at night?

If you have lots of live plants in the tank, they could be limiting or preventing the filter bacteria from developing by using up the ammonia before the bacteria can eat it.

If you increase the water temperature to 28C, that can help get the filter bacteria growing faster, but reduce it once the filter has cycled. You should also increase aeration/ surface turbulence when raising the temperature to maximise the oxygen level in the water.


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Adult scissortail rasboras need a tank that is at least 4 foot long.

If you can post some pictures and maybe a 1 minute video of the sick fish, we might be able to spot any diseases?

 

[jordzcov]

Hi,
Yes, both filters run 24/7.


Whie the tank is palnted, i wouldnt say its heavily planted, but ill take this in to consideration. It does seem liek it was bacteria being starved of ammonia was causing the issue, so i have purposely let it rise which did begin to show traces of nitrate and nitrite.



The filters are both near the surface, with the flow poitning upwards, aimed at disrupting and airatingthe surface.


Sadly i wasnt aware they need a 4 foot tank, and wasnt told about this when purchasing them



In regards to the sick fish, it seems to have settled, it may havejust been gaspign whiel ammonia was high, but following a water change i havent seen him do it. i will check again on his colouring as he seemed to be goign abit pale.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi,
Sadly i wasnt aware they need a 4 foot tank, and wasnt told about this when purchasing them

It's ok, most shops just want to sell things and don't always give the best advice for the fish's long term health. The small scissortail rasboras should be ok for a while but you should think about getting them a bigger home sometime in the future, either at your house or someone else's.

 

[jordzcov]

Update

[FONT=&quot]Hi, I just wanted to give a quick update for those who spent time helping me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Below is a picture of my water readings today (as well as the indicator chart)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is 4 days after my last water change, where ammonia has reached 0.5 and I have traces of nitrate and nitrite (the ph is clear water to compare). This is the second time around of ammonia hitting 0.5, which now seems to take about 4 days.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As previously recommended, as ammonia had hit 0.5, I conducted a 20% water change.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Just want to check continuing like this is the best plan going forward? while I’m really happy nitrate and nitrite are both now showing, neither have risen in the past 4 days, so am curious if I’m hitting the water changes to early? I have attached a record of my water change and readings log to help.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thank you,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jordan[/FONT]

 

[Aiken Drum]

Spot on.

How are your fish reacting?

 

[jordzcov]

Suprisingly well. no further deaths, no signs of gasping or strange behaviour. One tetra was a bit pale, but hes very small compared to the others, so this may just be how he is.


Do you reccomend any changes to what im currently doing. im assumiong id wait another 4 ish days for ammonia to hit 0.5 and do a water change? does it matter if nitrite or nitrates havent risen since?

 

[Aiken Drum]

I would just continue with what you are doing.

I tend to say keep ammonia + nitrite combined at around 0.5ppm. You seem to be changing water when they get to about 1ppm combined and bringing it down to somewhere near that target. That seems about right to me.

As your cycle progresses, you will find the frequency of needed water changes reducing. I think you asked somewhere if you should do your weekly water change regardless. Yes i would do that.

 

[jordzcov]

Im recording 0.5 for the nitrate, but thats only because its the lowest indicator ont he chart, the colours dont really match, but theres a deffinate tinge to the sample.


Thank you very much, ill pop back in a few days with anything new that arrises, but fingers crossed we should be good from here

 

[Colin_T]

There's no need to test for nitrates until ammonia and nitrite have both gone up and come back down to 0ppm. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading if there is nitrite in the water.

The filter cycle takes around 4-6 weeks (sometimes longer) to develop. The first group of bacteria that convert ammonia into nitrite takes around 2-3 weeks. Then the second group of bacteria that convert nitrite into nitrate take another 2-3 weeks to grow.

Going off your chart, your tank has been cycling for around 2 weeks and you have some beneficial bacteria that are converting the ammonia into nitrite, but there are not enough yet. They should be fully functional within the next week at which time the ammonia should stay on 0ppm while the nitrite goes up. Two to three weeks after that and the nitrite bacteria should be fully functioning and the nitrite should drop to 0ppm. When this happens the nitrate should start to go up and the tank will be cycled for the fish that are in it.

When you add more fish after the tank is cycled, you might get a mini cycle for a few days while the filter bacteria reproduce to sufficient numbers to compensate for the extra fish and food being added to the tank.

 

[jordzcov]

Hi guys,
Progress doesnt seem to have been made. Since the initial nitrtie reading, ive not seen any further rise. It is taking ammonia longer to rise (seems to take an extra day to hit 0.5) and doing a water change, but am seeign no other developments. If anything, the potent ness of the nitrite/nitrate tests looks less, so im unsure if its actually decreasing at this point.




Essentially, feelign a bit stuck. it made great progress on week 1, but ive seen no development since, and if anything, potential back steps with the nitrate/nitrite test.


as before, i have copied in my log and a picture of the water tests before i did a water change today (ph is just clear water a reference). are there any suggestions on anything differenti should be doing, or was it just that the first week progressed quicker than expected and the rest is slower progress.

 

[Aiken Drum]

You are expecting too much too soon. Cycling a tank could take a couple of months. Stick with the water changes when your water parameters elevate and your tank will cycle. You cant put a stopwatch on things. Im not seeing anything to worry about.

If you are still in the same situation in 3 or 4 weeks then there might be something going wrong. And i would really stop testing for nitrate. The readings will be confusing in an uncycled tank and cause confusion.

 

[jordzcov]

One of my neon tetras is slowly losing alot of colour.


He likes to spend alot of his time inside my ornaments hiding away in the dark (and always has enjoyed hiding away in corners/plants), so I'm unsure if his loss of colour is due to spending so much time in the dark, or if there are other factors at play and there may be a different issue. may this be due to the cycling attempts we are doing?

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you are managing your water quality with water changes as needed, then cycling shouldn't be affecting fishes health.

 

[jordzcov]

im assumin the 0.25/0.5 ammonia and 0/0.25 nitrite wouldnt be an issue? as of this morning, hes still eating, but pretty much doesnt come out of the cave and was "gasping", not at the surface, but continiously opening and closing his mouth.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Those water parameters wont be causing any issue. If you are concerned though, change some water.

 

[jordzcov]

Thats good to know, im keeping on top of the water changes every few days when ammonia rises.
from another forum i posted help on, some one suggested worms or gill flukes, which suck the blood out of the fish and the fish slowly wastes away and dies from low blood levels and low blood pressure.
they adivsed to try a treatment of salt which ill do tonight.


on a side note, i did a water test tonight, and they seem to be taking a step backwards i think ?
Ammonia is 0.2
nitrite is 0
nitrate was about 0/0.5


i dont think ive seen the rise and fall of nitrite to indicate the cycle workign, and nitrate is still low to show this, but confused as to why nitrite is now 0

 

[Aiken Drum]

Not sure what the problem is. The goal is to get ammonia and nitrite to zero.

As said previously, dont bother testing for nitrate until you are cycled. Its just confusing you.

 

[jordzcov]

Yea i did stop testing it, but every now and then do a test of everything just for the sake of it while i have the kit out.
my perspective of the problem is, i dont think the readings ive had would indicate the tank has cycled, so just unsure why ive lost the nitrite reading as it didnt demonstrate a spike, and ammonia is still present.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Its not a fishless cycle. You wont see spikes in ammonia and nitrite because if you are doing your fish in cycle correctly you are removing it before it gets elevated.

There are 2 different bacteria at play here. 1 type converts ammonia in nitrite and another type converts nitrite into nitrate. These will grow at different rates. Its normal that the ammonia to nitrite type establishes quicker, but in your case its maybe working the other way around.

I would test some bottled water for ammonia. You know the bottled water is zero, compare it with the test from your aquarium. If they look the same your tank has zero ammonia. Zero ammonia can look like a trace ammonia reading.

 

[jordzcov]

ahhhhh that makes a lot of sense, every one had indicated that id need to watch for the triggers to know its cyclign, with the first being a spike and drop in nitrite and then in nitrate to. i didnt realise i wouldnt really see this with the fish in cycle.


ive done a test of my tap water which showed ammonia at 0, so i know the level i need to keep an eye out for.



ill keep an eye on it and do soem more tests,a nd im assuming then if the nitrate stays at 0.5, i dodnt see the nitrite rise, and i see ammonia drop to 0 i should be there.


With a fully cycled tank, how long would it take for ammonia to rise/what sort of reading would you expect to see in a week tiem frame.
So for example, if i was to do a water change tomorrow on saturday, what ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levls would i expect to see by friday, should they all be reading at 0?