did I crash my cycle?

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ridewithme38

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Messages
83
Ok so last night I think I screwed up, two days ago my daughter decided she wanted a bubble wall and to move some decorations around. As I was doing this in her tank I stirred up some of the substrate and white flakey stuff(looked like when you peel you skin after a sunburn) started floating all around the tank. I decided yesterday to do a deep gravel vacuum. Vacuumed out about 3 gallons(10%) of murky nastyness from the gravel. Put in 3 gallons of clean water with prime(maybe too much prime)Right afterwards I checked out my carbon filter pad(topfin 30 filter) and it was nasty! So I swapped that with a fresh sponge only filter I got online.

After reading online, it looks like that was a bad idea deep vacuum and filter change on the same day. Do you think I crashed my cycle? I have three goldfish in my 29 gallon tank a tiny tiny black moor a small fantail(I think its a fantail) and a 2 month old common.

I'm at work right now so don't have the tank infront of me to check the chemistry. But what do you think?
 
Welcome to the forum.

Goldfish are huge waste producers and you need to be more thorough with regular gravel vacs than you might with another species.

Every week, when you do your water changes, swish the filter through used tank water. You shouldn't have to change out your filter cartridges but for a few times a year, when they're really falling apart.

Without knowing your readings, it's impossible to know whether you've crashed your cycle or not. :flowers:
 
Welcome to the forum.

Goldfish are huge waste producers and you need to be more thorough with regular gravel vacs than you might with another species.

I've only had the tank about a month so honestly i don't even know if my cycle has started/finished yet but ammonia has never gone above .50, my plan was a 50% water change every week (i just ordered two 15 gallon buckets) and a deep gravel vacuum every other week(with smaller water changes in between based on chemistry), do you think that will be enough, or should i do a deep gravel vacuuming every time i do a water change?

Every week, when you do your water changes, swish the filter through used tank water. You shouldn't have to change out your filter cartridges but for a few times a year, when they're really falling apart.

The Cartridge that came with my TopFin 30 was an Activated Carbon cart, wrapped in some filter material, i was a little worried about the activated carbon becoming, *unactivated*(does that even happen?) and not sure if i could just swish those around or if they needed to be changed....When changing a filter, you loose all bacteria that was on it, I've installed one of these Fluval Edge Pre-Filter Sponge - Filter Media - Fish - PetSmart on the end of my HOB intake arm, hoping that will hold some bacteria, but i'm not sure if that will be enough to make up for having to change an activated carbon cart when it becomes inactivated

Without knowing your readings, it's impossible to know whether you've crashed your cycle or not. :flowers:

Thanks Lynda! Even without me having my numbers handy, you've been ALOT of help!
 
A tank generally takes 4-6 weeks to cycle. Any amount of ammonia, even .5, is toxic to the fish.

You don't need buckets if you have a gravel vac system (like a Python). You don't need to do a deep gravel vac weekly, unless you have fish with a heavy bioload.

Carbon does become "unactivated" (and if that's not a word, it should be). ;)

You can always just slice open the cartridge and pull the carbon out. It lasts about 30 days whereas the cartridge itself lasts until it literally falls apart. An additional sponge or any filter media will always be helpful. (y)
 
Please keep an eye on your water parameters (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate). Ammonia & nitrite should be zero and your nitrates should be less than 20ppm. Lynda gave great advice in respect to filters and their care! In the case of your fish, you really should be doing deep weekly gravel vacs because goldfish are very messy. Water changes should be atleast weekly unless your getting detectable ammonia or nitrites. If these are detectable, you really will need to do daily (or even twice daily) large pwcs of atleast 50% to get thse levels under control. As you are new to goldfish (and we will help you!), you should be aware that your present tank setup should not be a permanent one. Fancies need 20 gal for the first fish, 10gal for each fish after. A common (which grows quickly to be 12-18inches) realistically needs to be in a pond environment or a very large tank. Commons & fancies really should not be homed together due to the commons single caudal tail-this single tail allows the common the advantage when it comes to food & it will serve as tough competition for the slower fancies at meal time. Just some things to consider!
 
Commons & fancies really should not be homed together due to the commons single caudal tail-this single tail allows the common the advantage when it comes to food & it will serve as tough competition for the slower fancies at meal time. Just some things to consider!

I've been experiencing this first hand, i have to practicly follow my baby black moor around with food and put it in his mouth so he can get anything to eat.with his awkward swimming and what seems like blindness, compared to how quick the Common is...he won't get a bit to eat unless i chase him around with the food

the fantail(what i believe is either a fantail or a Oranda, he has a red/orange spot on his head like an Oranda, but isn't showing the growth yet could just be Tancho like my common?) he seems to be doing much better

My brothers wives father has a rather large goldfish/koi pond he keeps right around the block from where i live, the common won't be here much long, i just want to make sure he big enough so he doesn't end up a snack for the other fish in the pond...maybe 4-6 inches
 
Your common will be fine once he is @2-3 inches & im glad you already have a future home in mind for him. Problem is, he may not grow to this size due to the confines of your tank (not pleasant for goldfish because they continue to grow internally). Moors are visually impaired due to their telescopic eyes as you have discovered, so make sure he is getting his share of food at mealtime. You may even have to seperate him from the other guys at mealtime-a tank divider or simple sheet of plastic would work well. Does your fantail have a double tail and/or is he lacking a top dorsal fin? He very well may be an oranda or lionhead. You will be able to tell as he grows (and his wen starts to grow). Keep us posted & do not hesitate to ask more questions!
 
Tested Ammonia tonight and got a .50 (appox. i'm not good with colors with the API Master kit, i wish for a digital meter) did a 70-80% water change with alot of Prime(8 drops for each 10% instead of 6)...Tested Nitrate after the water change and got somewhere between 10 and 20

So what i'm thinking now is my tank is overstocked(Duh!) i'm going to test again tommorrow after dinner(about 24hrs from the last test) and if my ammonia is still up i'm going to go out and buy some of that 'cycle in a bottle' stuff to see if i can increase the amount of bacteria in my tank to clean up the excess Ammonia instead of just using alot of Prime and 50% water changes everyday
 
Tested Ammonia tonight and got a .50 (appox. i'm not good with colors with the API Master kit, i wish for a digital meter) did a 70-80% water change with alot of Prime(8 drops for each 10% instead of 6)...Tested Nitrate after the water change and got somewhere between 10 and 20

So what i'm thinking now is my tank is overstocked(Duh!) i'm going to test again tommorrow after dinner(about 24hrs from the last test) and if my ammonia is still up i'm going to go out and buy some of that 'cycle in a bottle' stuff to see if i can increase the amount of bacteria in my tank to clean up the excess Ammonia instead of just using alot of Prime and 50% water changes everyday
There are no 'shortcuts' when it comes to fish & aquariums. The 'cycle in bottle' stuff is not worth the money & it may in fact do more harm than good. Adding more chemicals here (beyond prime) is going to create more problems for you & your fish. I really would just stick to your water changes to keep ammonia/nitrite under control. Move the common to the pond & things will be alot easier because it will lessen the overall bioload.
 
Vacuuming shouldn't have caused any harm. Changing the filter out though could be a problem. They do get nasty but that's good; generally a swish in old tank water is all that's needed. Changing out the filter entirely gets rid of the beneficial bacteria your tank needs. So that's probably your problem. Another is yes you are overstocked.

You may have sent the tank into a mini-cycle from changing the filter. Daily testing and water changes when ammonia and/or nitrite are over .25 is needed to keep the fish healthy. Hopefully the tank will establish itself again soon. But you're going to need to address your stocking issue very soon. Either upgrade to a much larger tank or rehome one of the fish (the Common).
 
Tested again tonight and got about the same color with API on the ammonia test as i did yesterday...vacuumed out 15 gallons....8 drops of Prime per bucket, so 48 drops instead of the recommended 30 drops...just for some extra protection

Looks like i'm going to be doing daily 50% vacuums for awhile....

i know this is a dumb question...so i don't know why i'm even asking it...but i have the under-powered filter that came with my tank its a TopFin 20...just totally not enough filtration...Will upgrading to a AquaClear 70 or AquaClear 110(my lfs didn't have any 70's in stock) make any difference to the ammonia levels? i know it'll help with the waste in the tank, and i'm (think) that the waste in the tank produces Ammonia....But i'm not sure if it'll be an appreciable difference

BTW: What else should i test for?
 
Go for the higher filtration. The rule for goldfish due to their messiness is to have ten times the filtration- a 10gal should have a 100gph (gallons per hour) filter, a 20 gal 200gph, a 30gal 300gph filtration, etc. Look at the 'gph' for the filters your considering & get an appropriate filter (not what the filter size says ie- for a 20gal or for a 30gal) based on the gph. Not such thing as too much filtration with goldfish! Make sure you add the new filter & leave the old one on as well (it has the bacteria). And keep up the good work with the pwcs!!!
 
Ok so the paycheck comes in on the 15 i'm 70% sure i'm going to buy the AquaClear 70(300 GPH) 30% sure i'm going to buy the Aquaclear 110(500 GPH)

For tonight, i added carbon into the Top Fin 30 i have, i had replaced the (Carbon)Charcoal insert with a strictly foam setup at the beginning of the week, now i've stuffed the foam in the filter WITH a fresh (carbon)charcoal media cartridge...i'm going to test for ammonia at the same time tomorrow night
 
Read this off another forum...


The ammonia might also have come from the water change. Tap water conditioners break the chlorine bond by converting chlorine to chloramine, chloramine is non-toxic and will be dissolved into the air, but that process creates an ammonia by-product. As long as you are using Prime that ammonia by-product will be converted to ammonium, also non-toxic, and the bacteria will process it out. This is why you should wait 24 hours after water changes to do ammonia tests since they may be skewed by the conditioner.

So maybe i should be waiting longer after my water changes with Prime to test? give the Bacteria some time to deal with the ammonia in the tank
 
Just testing right now after change 15 gallons:

Ammonia: between 0 - .25 (closer to .25)
Nitrites: between 1 - 2 ppm (closer to 1)
Nitrates: between 0 - 5 ppm (looks like 0) looks like i did crash my cycle
High PH: between 8.4 - 8.8 WAY TOO HIGH!

That PH is freaking me out...i'm going to test my tap water right now

Tested Tap water

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
PH was between 7.4-7.8 (bottom of the low PH, top of the high PH drop testers)
 
Read this off another forum...




So maybe i should be waiting longer after my water changes with Prime to test? give the Bacteria some time to deal with the ammonia in the tank
Actually, it really wont make a difference when you test just as long as you wait 20mins for the new water to circulate. Although the prime detoxifies the ammonia, your ammonia test will come positive for ammonia (or ammonium) either way-a 'false positive' result. The effect of prime only lasts @24hrs so the ammonium will revert back to toxic form after that period of time. So, the best thing either way is pwcs to remove the ammonia/amonium in the first place.
 
Your latest tests- the nitrites are pretty high. You really should do another pwc. Another pwc will also bring your ph down closer to your tap. My ph went up when my latest tank cycled (ususally it will drop) but i believe this has something to do with the ammonia. Ammonia is very alkaline (high ph). But im not a chemist so i dont exactly know how everything coorelates or how to explain it. Pwcs (once again) will help lower your ph & re-establish the buffers needed to help keep it stable. On your filter-if you can afford it, go for the bigger (more gph) filter! I actually have two 400gph filters on my 50gal (and theres only 3 goldies in there...).
 
Ok just completed a second 15 gallon water change for today...i'm going to eat some dinner and test after!

Thank you for all your help so far!
 
Nitrite: 0 (huge drop! didn't even seem to change color)
Ammonia: 0-.25 (less green then last time)
PH: it read as higher then 7.6, but when i tested the high end it didn't really register...so my guess is 7.6-7.8
Nitrates: look like 0

I'm just hoping i don't have to do 2 50% water changed every day
 
Im glad things are looking better!! The sooner the comet is rehomed, the easier things will be because you have a really large bioload happening right now. Great job with the pwcs!!! As you can see, they do really help normalize everything & your fish really appreciate it! :)
 
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