Do you quarantine your new fish?

[Caliban07]

When somebody tells me that their controversial practices have yielded no sick or dead fish in 10+ years, I tend to not believe them.


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I don't think that's what was said. Rather that quarantining had not been practiced for 10+ years....11 to be precise.


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[Tolak]

I'd look into the issues from not doing a proper quar vs doing a proper quar. You've got a big site here, and I'll bet you'll find more issues from the former rather than the latter.

I run a couple 150 gallon Rubbermaid ag tubs in my fishroom, have for years. Fish often stay in there longer than anyone normally would quar their fish. They have no problems ay all, grow big, get sold or used in a pairing tank depending on the fish.

If a person doesn't want to quar that's totally up to them, you'll find the larger breeders & commercial fish suppliers are pretty strict on quar procedure, there must be a reason. I tend to learn more tricks from the big players rather than an individual's thinly documented experience.

 

[em1981ma]

When i went to the store for my neon tetras the entire tank looked healthy and spot free. Now a week later all my neons have ich. If I had a quarantine set up my display wouldn't have ich.

Moral of the story-it doesn't matter how clean the store tank is you can still get diseases

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There is a possibly that your stock display tank already had ich parasite in it. And introducing a new fish stressed the current stock and opportunistic ich parasite took hold due to immunity being down. Some fish carry the parasite but show no symptoms until the balance is disturbed ie introducing a new fish.


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[em1981ma]

Many fish once they get ich build up a certain immunity to the parasite

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[ScotJudd]

Of course it's individual choice. Strangely, I have twice introduced disease into my main tank before I got a QT. Now I quarantine all new stock and never had a diseased fish in the QT. I suppose there's a degree of luck involved


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[Fishanatic]

Many fish once they get ich build up a certain immunity to the parasite

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Theres more than one strain of ich you know.

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

 

[Caliban07]

There is a possibly that your stock display tank already had ich parasite in it. And introducing a new fish stressed the current stock and opportunistic ich parasite took hold due to immunity being down. Some fish carry the parasite but show no symptoms until the balance is disturbed ie introducing a new fish.


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Mind is open to all possibilities. I like it.....legitimate logic.


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[Caliban07]

I'd look into the issues from not doing a proper quar vs doing a proper quar. You've got a big site here, and I'll bet you'll find more issues from the former rather than the latter.

I run a couple 150 gallon Rubbermaid ag tubs in my fishroom, have for years. Fish often stay in there longer than anyone normally would quar their fish. They have no problems ay all, grow big, get sold or used in a pairing tank depending on the fish.

If a person doesn't want to quar that's totally up to them, you'll find the larger breeders & commercial fish suppliers are pretty strict on quar procedure, there must be a reason. I tend to learn more tricks from the big players rather than an individual's thinly documented experience.

I'm not disputing this, you're quite right. Quarantining fish in a suitable environment is good practice. You must have a good procedure and good livestock to select from. Rubber maid would not be MY choice of container and personally I wouldn't recommend the use of one to QT. Having said that i'm not about to quash your success rate of keeping fish healthy in rubbermaids as luck. Why would I do that? But there could be many other reasons that work for you that don't work for others.

The last few posts have hit the nail on the head. QT is optional. If someone believes strongly in QT'ing that's fine. Explain your reasons, give examples through experience why you do it why you think it's important (which most people did) and have done with it.

All Bradbury did was post their reasons for not QT'ing based on experience and it was shot down by the QTing fan club. How can we provide information based on logic and experience for people to make an informed decision if we just quash anything that we don't believe in as bad practice?

Anywho, the 'big players' you know the ones who continuously try to rip the public off and give terrible advice in most cases will QT new arrivals usually only when visible signs exist. Large shipments of fish that arrive or are collected by the LFS are more often than not in a similar state of stress and immune deficiency. The fish are more prone and the chances of spreading is significantly increased. Above anything else. Those fish are the LFS livelihood. How can they pass X fish on to an unsuspecting customer if they are all dead?

There are good LFS if course.....


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[Ruffers99]

not wanting to butt in on this guys, but if there is for any reason why you cant or don't want to quarantine, wouldn't a UV help to clip some of the nastier disease causing Bactria?

Just curious as I was going to look into getting one regardless?

 

[Brookster123]

not wanting to butt in on this guys, but if there is for any reason why you cant or don't want to quarantine, wouldn't a UV help to clip some of the nastier disease causing Bactria?

Just curious as I was going to look into getting one regardless?

Not really a substitute.. only really good for free floating algae. Some say they will knock out a few water born parasites and such...

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[BillD]

LFS will consider a certain amount of loss to disease to be part of the cost of running the business. They will often get diseased fish depending on their source. If your tank doesn't have fish with ich and you introduce new fish and you suddenly have an ich outbreak, it isn't from the tank.It came in with the new fish. While there may be nothing natural about a rubbermaid container, there isn't much natural about a glass aquarium, in spite of our efforts to decorate them. The vast majority of domestically bred fish come from unadorned tanks. The fact that they breed means they aren't stressed by the situation.
If you don't want to quarantine, that is up to you. You might get lucky or you might not. If you don't know the source, it is a gamble. Even knowing the source may not alleviate all of the risk.
Depending on the species of fish, introducing them in sequence rather than all at once might be a bad idea (especially cihlids). The first fish may establish territories and subsequent additions may be at peril. Introduce them together and they get a chance to sort out the aggression from the start.
Generally, while I don't quarantine per se, new fish generally go into their own tank, as I usually keep species tanks. I also very seldom buy from the LFS.
I would never advocate not using a quarantine procedure. It is bad advice to say you don't need it or it isn't necessary. I have always believed it is better to give no advice than bad advice.

 

[Caliban07]

LFS will consider a certain amount of loss to disease to be part of the cost of running the business. They will often get diseased fish depending on their source. If your tank doesn't have fish with ich and you introduce new fish and you suddenly have an ich outbreak, it isn't from the tank.It came in with the new fish. While there may be nothing natural about a rubbermaid container, there isn't much natural about a glass aquarium, in spite of our efforts to decorate them. The vast majority of domestically bred fish come from unadorned tanks. The fact that they breed means they aren't stressed by the situation.
If you don't want to quarantine, that is up to you. You might get lucky or you might not. If you don't know the source, it is a gamble. Even knowing the source may not alleviate all of the risk.
Depending on the species of fish, introducing them in sequence rather than all at once might be a bad idea (especially cihlids). The first fish may establish territories and subsequent additions may be at peril. Introduce them together and they get a chance to sort out the aggression from the start.
Generally, while I don't quarantine per se, new fish generally go into their own tank, as I usually keep species tanks. I also very seldom buy from the LFS.
I would never advocate not using a quarantine procedure. It is bad advice to say you don't need it or it isn't necessary. I have always believed it is better to give no advice than bad advice.

Thank BillD

How come you don't follow your own advice out of curiosity?


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[dalto]

Thank BillD

How come you don't follow your own advice out of curiosity?

I think he is saying that he doesn't need dedicated qt tanks because the fish are going to tanks that were empty before the new fish were added.

This was the same situation I had when I was keeping and breeding apistos. There was no need to qt since there was no other fish in the target tank to infect to begin with.

 

[Tolak]

I'm not disputing this, you're quite right. Quarantining fish in a suitable environment is good practice. You must have a good procedure and good livestock to select from. Rubber maid would not be MY choice of container and personally I wouldn't recommend the use of one to QT. Having said that i'm not about to quash your success rate of keeping fish healthy in rubbermaids as luck. Why would I do that? But there could be many other reasons that work for you that don't work for others.

They’re a pretty common item in breeding setups. I got 7 of them among other things out of an angel breeder that was shutting down, most of his tanks were 40b’s, he had 300 of those running. My setup is considerably smaller, 30 tanks & a couple tubs, 1k gallons.

The last few posts have hit the nail on the head. QT is optional. If someone believes strongly in QT'ing that's fine. Explain your reasons, give examples through experience why you do it why you think it's important (which most people did) and have done with it.

So, a breeder buddy of mine gets in a breeding pair of angels from a guy in Florida. He usually uses his garage for quar, fishroom is 100 tanks in the basement, takes up the whole basement. He was busy using the garage for a home improvement project, got lazy, gave them their own tank down in the fishroom. If you’ve ever seen how a bigger fishroom is run it’s all air driven filters, room is heated, various fans & such to circulate air. Bubbling quar tank, circulating air, after a few days he started loosing fish, a week into it he was wiped out, 10k angels, discus, didn’t seem to affect the Africans flowerhorns or RBP’s. I picked up some fish from him 2 days before he got the pair in that started the mess, real close call. He was down for a year, 2 years out I still won’t get fish from him.

Anyhow, the 'big players' you know the ones who continuously try to rip the public off and give terrible advice in most cases will QT new arrivals usually only when visible signs exist.

Big players means outfits like Angels Plus, call him & ask about his quar procedure. He has a separate building for new fish, breeds them there, and has a proprietary method for sterilizing spawns before they go into his breeding building. If you think he rips people off & gives terrible advice give him a call, let him know how since you stay healthy in a hospital setting he should lighten up on his biosecurity procedures.

I haven’t bought a fish retail in many years, last time I was in a shop that sold fish was to get new tags for my dogs, months ago. I’m not talking retail, or the wholesale distributors that supply them. I’m talking the folks that actually produce the fish. Retailers don’t know squat, distributors are bio sloppy & push through too much stock from too many places. If a guy’s 100-300+ tank setup takes a hit it’s considerably more devastating than for the casual fishkeeper, it’s their livelihood gone. These are the folks that it’s best to learn what to do from, and at times what not to do.

 

[Caliban07]

They’re a pretty common item in breeding setups. I got 7 of them among other things out of an angel breeder that was shutting down, most of his tanks were 40b’s, he had 300 of those running. My setup is considerably smaller, 30 tanks & a couple tubs, 1k gallons.



So, a breeder buddy of mine gets in a breeding pair of angels from a guy in Florida. He usually uses his garage for quar, fishroom is 100 tanks in the basement, takes up the whole basement. He was busy using the garage for a home improvement project, got lazy, gave them their own tank down in the fishroom. If you’ve ever seen how a bigger fishroom is run it’s all air driven filters, room is heated, various fans & such to circulate air. Bubbling quar tank, circulating air, after a few days he started loosing fish, a week into it he was wiped out, 10k angels, discus, didn’t seem to affect the Africans flowerhorns or RBP’s. I picked up some fish from him 2 days before he got the pair in that started the mess, real close call. He was down for a year, 2 years out I still won’t get fish from him.



Big players means outfits like Angels Plus, call him & ask about his quar procedure. He has a separate building for new fish, breeds them there, and has a proprietary method for sterilizing spawns before they go into his breeding building. If you think he rips people off & gives terrible advice give him a call, let him know how since you stay healthy in a hospital setting he should lighten up on his biosecurity procedures.

I haven’t bought a fish retail in many years, last time I was in a shop that sold fish was to get new tags for my dogs, months ago. I’m not talking retail, or the wholesale distributors that supply them. I’m talking the folks that actually produce the fish. Retailers don’t know squat, distributors are bio sloppy & push through too much stock from too many places. If a guy’s 100-300+ tank setup takes a hit it’s considerably more devastating than for the casual fishkeeper, it’s their livelihood gone. These are the folks that it’s best to learn what to do from, and at times what not to do.

Thanks Tolak I'm gonna draw my participation in this discussion to an end.

Seems the stronger advice is coming from breeders/sellers. It's their livelihood. Pays to be much cautious. Must be harder to keep tabs on things when you have that many tanks. I am guessing there are all hooked up to the same system too? Much more chance of spreading a disease that way and the repercussions wouldn't be good. I understand that. I don't bemoan a good quarantining procedure. I feel that in some instances the quarantined fish is in more danger of progressing with a disease. Suppose if it's not in the main it doesn't matter. I like to give nature a chance, see if it can recover in the absence of stress and use meds as an absolute last resort, in which case I dose the whole tank anyway. I know that this isn't practical in some cases but it has certainly worked for me. It is a gamble but there are ways to reduce the likely hood of spreading disease. Bbradburys method of visual inspection and good tank maintenance was not an unreasonable comment. My gripe was with how easily dismissive some people can be. When faced with a subject that is optional and not practiced by all to turn this in to another imperative course of action is annoying. Opening comments such as 'god yes' give a false perception that this is a cardinal rule and could even be quite intimidating to someone who has asked what they thought was a reasonable question.

Sorry I've never heard of that distributor/breeder. I wouldn't know if he was a big player or not. I'm sure he wouldn't care to hear the thoughts of a casual keeper. If he did though, I'd much more likely to take time out to listen to him.


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[PNWaquarist]

Bbradburys method of visual inspection and good tank maintenance was not an unreasonable comment.

Maybe not, but it's not good advice either. Visual inspections at the LFS are not a thorough diagnosis method.

There's nothing wrong with not quarantining, and there are numerous legitimate reasons why people don't (no extra space, costs extra money, annoys significant others, faith in good breeders/suppliers/LFSs, etc.). But it's a practice that should be encouraged, and not dismissed as unnecessary.

 

[Tolak]

Thanks Tolak I'm gonna draw my participation in this discussion to an end.

/me pouts. You’ve got some good input here, I’m sure others besides myself appreciate it.

Seems the stronger advice is coming from breeders/sellers. It's their livelihood. Pays to be much cautious. Must be harder to keep tabs on things when you have that many tanks. I am guessing there are all hooked up to the same system too? Much more chance of spreading a disease that way and the repercussions wouldn't be good. I understand that.

Most all breeder’s setups are centralized air driven systems. Shops will often use centralized sumps, PetSmart uses one large sump system, Petco & Petland used banks of sumps, look up Mars systems, these are common in many shops.

I don't bemoan a good quarantining procedure. I feel that in some instances the quarantined fish is in more danger of progressing with a disease. Suppose if it's not in the main it doesn't matter. I like to give nature a chance, see if it can recover in the absence of stress and use meds as an absolute last resort, in which case I dose the whole tank anyway. I know that this isn't practical in some cases but it has certainly worked for me. It is a gamble but there are ways to reduce the likely hood of spreading disease. Bbradburys method of visual inspection and good tank maintenance was not an unreasonable comment. My gripe was with how easily dismissive some people can be. When faced with a subject that is optional and not practiced by all to turn this in to another imperative course of action is annoying. Opening comments such as 'god yes' give a false perception that this is a cardinal rule and could even be quite intimidating to someone who has asked what they thought was a reasonable question.

This was the question;

Do you quarantine your new fish before introducing them in a new tank?

God yes is because I’ve seen the damage it can do on a larger scale. The question was if I quar my new fish, not if everyone should quar all their new fish.


I can see your point, where someone has 1, maybe 3 tanks, not a lot of monetary investment in stock, they may not be able to see the cost vs savings with a quar tank. If they’re emotionally invested in the fish that’s another story. It all comes down to an individual’s choice on how they’d like to practice animal husbandry. Visual inspection can rule out some things, but none that are at the microscopic level.

Sorry I've never heard of that distributor/breeder. I wouldn't know if he was a big player or not. I'm sure he wouldn't care to hear the thoughts of a casual keeper. If he did though, I'd much more likely to take time out to listen to him.

He’s quite approachable, regardless of if you want to start your first tank & are considering angels, or have racks of gear running, real good guy. Having a medical background you’d probably have a good time discussing diseases & how they spread.