first aquarium-20 gal; need some advice

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beef_cake

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
8
Hello everyone, I recently scored a really good deal at a yard sale and got a 20-25 gal tank for $10. A week prior I bought 2 betas(male & female) in a specialty beta tank. After learning that a usual .5-1 gallon beta tank is miserable for them I bought this tank. I just have a few questions. The woman at the pet store told me that no other fish can live with goldfish including betas due to the ammonia they produce, Is this true? Will no other cichlids or any other fish for that matter go with them? Currently, I have 9 Comet goldfish, 2 betas, and 3 other fancy goldfish (forgot the name) and everything seems to be working out fairly well. I have a 20-g Aquaclear filtration system, tap water conditioner, and accu-clear cloudiness remover stuff, but the tank still seems to be somewhat cloudy. How can I resolve this? I added the Accu-clear to the tank 8 hours ago and the cloudiness is the same. The bottle says to wait 24 hours before I add more to the tank. I realize that I'm inexperienced when it comes to aquarium life so any advice will be well apreciated. I hope to one day own a Chinese Dwarf Lionfish (I fell in love with them today) and want to start small before I move up to something like that. Thanks in advance guys!
 
Hi and welcome ! This forum is a great resource to learn and ask questions.

I'll try and answer your questions first, but them I'm going to ask you a bunch in return :)

Goldfish are considered "cold water" fish. Bettas, cichlids and most other fish you see in a pet store are tropicals, and require a higher temperature. Here's a link for you to learn about each type of fish and their ideal requirements:
http://fishprofiles.com
Go into the freshwater profiles, type in part of the name of each fish and you'll see what they need

Re the ammonia - Goldfish tend to produce more waste than other smaller bodied fish, that waste contains or decays into ammonia. The more waste the more ammonia. In an established aquarium there are "good bacteria" that convert ammonia to a less toxic compound called nitrites. Those nitrites are then converted to an even less harmful compound called nitrates but a second set of good bacteria. This is called the nitrogen cycle. You should read these two articles:
THE NITROGEN CYCLE
FISHLESS CYCLE
(the second article was written by a saltwater person but the same process holds for freshwater)

Are all the fish you mentioned in that one tank ? If so then you're severly overcrowded and you need to prepare to do massive water changes almost daily. I'd strongly recommend a test kit so you can monitor your ammonia and nitrites. Most people here use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit. You can get it at PetSmart - if you print the online ad they may even pricematch the lower online price.

Also - you can't keep two male bettas in the same tank - their other name is "Siamese Fighting Fish" and they are known to fight to the death. You need to separate them asap if they are together.

Come back with additional questions. Everyone is here to help you.
 
There's a male and a female betta in the tank, actually. But the male will harass the female. A male betta that wants to mate could kill the her. I'd take one of them out or you'll probably wind up losing the female.

The water changes joannde suggested will keep the cloudiness down. Adding chemicals will often not solve the problem, and you're adding weird stuff to the water that wouldn't normally be there.

I'm a little confused as to when you got the goldfish, as it sounds like all you had before this tank was the bettas. I'd honestly suggest taking back the goldfish and getting some smaller tropicals (you could keep one of the bettas in the tank then). Really, the general rule for the fancy goldfish is 20 g minimum for one fish, and about 10g for each additional goldie. Those comet goldfish are gonna get huge, so they'll need a lot more room. Check out this pic from another thread if you don't believe me. He's in a 5g bucket:
eda1088e.jpg
 
how long am I looking at before I'd need a new tank to accomodate them assuming they all live to see that time. They seem to be alright now. I just changed 25% of the water and didn't really help with cloudiness added tap water conditioner aswell as a few aquarium salt pebbles. The other goldfish do not attack the male betta although I have seen a couple of times where one got curious and nipped his fin a little. I know goldfish can get big but I know it takes awhile to even get over 4'' in length. I'm sure I'll have a tank for them by that time.
 
The cloudiness is a bacterial bloom from the tank cycling. You can change the water all you want but the cloudiness will remain until you build up enough nitrates to break down the ammonia into nitrIte then into nitrates. With that many fish I would suggest like the others to do really frequent water changes, though not for the cloud, but to help remove/dillute the ammonia from all the bird poop that will be floating around in the tank breaking down.
 
how often is frequent? Like once a week or so? Also, is there an easier way to drain the water from the tank? Like siphoning or something. Earlier I just took a pot and scooped water out. When adding water I just did the opposite, filled the pot up and dumped it in the tank. Does methods like this add stress to the fish or are they use to it?
 
Frequent, with that many fish is once a day at the least - 50% at a time.

There are gravel vacuums sold to remove the water and also allow you to clean the gravel. There is a special type called a Python No-Spill that attachs directly to your sink and makes the job much easier. You might want to look into that.

It won't take very long (months) before your tank is severly overcrowded. You might want to bring the goldfish back to the store if you can, or if you decide you want to keep goldfish and not tropicals then take the tropicals back and keep 2 of the goldfish.

One of the things you'll learn about having an aquarium is that you need alot of patience. I'm not the patient type, but fishkeeping has taught me to slow down a little - a lesson I sorely needed :) It seems you're alot like me - jumping in with both feet - unfortunately that doesn't work so well with fishkeeping.

Keep up the water changes and see what you can do about returning some of the fish.
 
The goldfish will probably all die, happily, before they reach any size. I'd give it a month in that tank. You should definately be doing 50% changes daily. The male and female betta should be fine together in that size and crowding because they have plenty of hiding spots, even if the girl just hides behind other fish. You really aren't supposed to put fancy and regular goldfish together, because the regulars will outcompete the fancies for food. Gravel is not good to have with goldies, because they can choke on it. You've got tropicals and coldwater fish together, so one will be suffering just from water temp alone. You should take the goldies back. As adults you might be able to house two a piece in 55 gallon tanks.
 
I agree with all said above. I want to add, that its not just their size that is wrong for that tank, its the number of goldies you have in there. It was mentioned above that goldfish need 20g for one and then 10g more for every one after the first. So with all the fish you have in there, you should have a 130g tank...not a 20g. You can keep one of the fancy kind in a 20g...but not the others. I think you should seriously consider taking them back to the LFS or get yourself a pond for them.

For a 20g, a good stocking is a school of tetras or rasboras, a male or female betta, and some cories for the bottom.

Please do the right thing for these fish. Doing water changes is not going to change the fact that you are extremely overstocked and overcrowded.

Please research before you buy also....it prevents buying fish that don't belong in your tank.
 
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