First Tank Ever

[gamma_draconis]

Hi all,

I'm just beginning to think about setting up what will be my first tank that I've ever had at home.

I thought maybe I could get some advice from ya'll to differentiate among the millions of products I might buy.

These are my thoughts for what I would like the tank to be like and would love suggestions about the specific products I should purchase to maybe make my dream a reality.

Fish: My top priority is having a pleco. I love those guys. I also would like some tetras either cardinals or neons. Other than that I don't really know what else I would like. I've been thinking cichlid but I'm not sure.

Decor: I think having a centerpiece of driftwood would be really great. As for substrate I have no idea what would work well. I'm somewhat interested in having a planted tank but I'm not sure I'm ready to do that yet.

Questions: What size tank would be a good starter size yet leave me enough room to grow as I gain more experience. I'm thinking 30 gal for now but was also wondering if 50 gal might not just give me that extra space in case I need it. As for filters I also have no idea what to get. Obviously something with plenty of surface space for biological as well as mechanical filtration. Will I need powerheads to create currents? Maybe I should just start with some basic equipment and supplement it as I discover what I need.

Anyway, thanks for reading the ramblings of a newbie. I'm excited to get started on my aquarist hobby.

Oh I forgot to mention that I am most certainly planning on doing a fishless cycle and have read up on all the nitrogen cycling literature.

 

[rich311k]

The number one question is what kind of pleco do you want. A common will need a huge tank eventually. If you go with a smaller type pleco than a 30 or a 55 will be perfect.

A 30 gallon long is a nice size starter tank. You can use pool filter sand or regular aquarium gravel. Both will work with live plants if you go that way in the future.

Filters and heaters etc will depend on the size tank you go with.

 

[theotheragentm]

I agree with 30 gallons with a smaller Pleco. It's a nice sized tank that starts to give you the benefits of a large volume tank, which is easier to maintain than smaller ones.

Pool filter sand is nice and it's cheaper to buy than gravel from a LFS. A 50 lb. bag took care of my 55-gallon nicely, so you should have some left over with a 30 gallon.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

If I were you I would start with a 55. You'll want to keep so many fish that a 30 won't be enough. And it depends on what type of fish you ultimately want to keep. If you are interested in African Cichlids, for example, you'll need the 55. A 30 gal is ok for a small community tank but if you want to have a few differeny types of schools of Tetras, plus a few centerpiece fish, round it off with a pleco and some Cories, you'll want the 55.

For the filter, it depends on the tank size and what you want to keep. If you go with a 55 I'd most definitely pay the price now and get a canister filter. You can get away with HOBs but I prefer not to see the filter hanging on the tank. Plus, I don't like to hear the sound of water splashing. If you go with a 30, you can get away with an Aqua Clear hob filter without a problem. No need for powerheads unless you see that you have dead areas in the tank. The position of your decor in addition to what type of filter you use (and if you use air stones or not) will dictate the current.

 

[jinmon]

As a fellow newbie (my first tank's had fish in it for what, 3 weeks?), I just wanted to warn you to pick a common fish tank size! I picked a 40-gallon regular, and it is VERY difficult to find hoods for it, stands for it, dividers for it, etc. If you're okay with just a glass top with lights overhead, carry on! I needed something more solid due to big overweight curious cats. Anyway, the more common your tank size, the more "stuff" you can find that will fit if you want to change light fixtures or whatever - you know, like if you decide you DO want to grow live plants, and yeah you know that plant needs just a LITTLE more light than you have but it's SO PRETTY....

And seriously - doesn't matter what size tank you get. You'll still have to NOT buy some fish you really really want because you've got OTHER fish you really really want, and you'll just realize you need another tank (or two) anyway.

 

[gamma_draconis]

Thanks so much for your help already.

I'm going to head to my LFS as soon as possible and check out the 30 vs. 55 in person to gauge the sizes and consider what I might realistically have room for. At this point I'm definitely not going to go bellow 30.

If you go with a 55 I'd most definitely pay the price now and get a canister filter.

I've heard about canister filters but don't really know anything about them. How do they work? How are the different from other filters? I'm guessing from context that they sit completely outside the tank, is that true?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

At this point I'm definitely not going to go bellow 30.

Excellent decision. It's easier to maintain a larger tank.

Canister filters are a larger unit that sit in the stand of the tank. Two hoses come out of the filter and into the tank. That's the only part of the filter that you see. One for an output and one for an input. You won't have splashing water sounds since the tubes extend into the water. They are more efficient than a hob and you can direct the flow of the ouput by the output nozzle. They are more expensive up front, but worth it. I run a Cascade 1000 on my 55 gal tank. It is so easy to setup, take apart, and maintain. Easier than the hob that I have on the 10 gal. Not all canisters are like that though. Some are a pain to work with. Just do your research and find out which one works best for you. Another advantage is you can get an inline heater with a canister. That way you don't have one sitting in the tank.

Before purchasing equipment, check out www.bigalsonline.com for prices. They are cheaper than the lfs. I buy all of my equipment from them.

 

[supermazz9]

You might want to re-think plants...they're not difficult, and your fish WILL love you for it. it can get expensive if you start going on in for it (eco-complete, ferts, big lights, co2), but to start you can pretty much just throw in some Cabomba, java moss, stuff like that that require little maintenace, their cheap, and don't need any special taking care of.

Go to the planted tank section and ask you question there, if you will consider planted, you'll get some great help!

 

[gamma_draconis]

More questions:

I think I might go with a canister filter because I do plan to be in this for the long-haul and will want one eventually. My question is if you get a filter rated for a larger tank than you have will it still be effective? Say I get the Cascade 1000 that Fishyfanatic mentioned but only end up getting a 30 gal tank for now. Will that be a problem?

Also as far as pool filter sand as a substrate goes how does one keep it clean. I'm imagining that you can't just vac it like you would with gravel. Is that true? Or does it work similarly?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Overfilting is not a problem, it's too much circulation that becomes the issue. It depends on what kind of fish you are going to keep. I think the 1000 may push out too much for a 30 gal with community fish. You can use the spray bar to reduce the flow though.

Gravel vacing works in a similar fashion. You just need to hover the vac over the substrate to suck out the waste. I suck up sand into the vac to move it around the tank. It's an easy aquascaping tool. Just make sure you don't get too much in the vac otherwise it will suck right out of the tank. You'll get a feel for it once you start using it.

 

[gamma_draconis]

I think I've decided on a 29g All-Glass from my LFS. Is that a fairly standard sized tank?

I definitely want to get a canister filter for it but when I went to Petco to check out different models they didn't have all the one's I was interested in (big surprise right? ) Anyway, the Cascade which I was originally thinking of getting seemed pretty difficult to open. In fact I couldn't get the display model to fully unclip at all. Does this sound normal or was that just Petco's trashy display model? Can anyone share their experience with Fluval canister filters? Or Eheim Ecco models?

Also as far as the AP Master Test Kit goes, how many tests does it provide for each substance (NH4, NO2, NO3, etc.)

Oh and as a side note, has anyone else ever had to convince their LFS owner that "I want to do a fishless cycle so please don't give me any guppies to 'get the cycle going'".

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Yes, the 29 is a common size.

The Cascades are not difficult to open at all. It was probably just their display model. You have to unclip four clips. Two pull out to the sides then up and the other two just pull out (I believe. It's been a while since I've opened them up.) I can't comment on the other two since I've never used them but I've heard the Fluvals are a pain to open.

The AP says it does approximately 700 tests. I never keep mine long enough to empty out a bottle. Every 6 months or so I buy a new one.

I don't discuss cycling with lfs employees or owners. They usually don't know too much or they want you to spend gobs of money on useless stuff.

 

[gamma_draconis]

All right, I went out today and bit the bullet, so to speak.

I purchased a 29 gal tank setup for about $300 from my LFS today including the following items:

29 gal All-Glass Tank (black trim)
30" All-Glass Stand (black pine)
30" All-Glass Hood
Penn Plax 15" 200 Watt Thermaflow PC Plus Heater
Wardley Senior Deluxe pH Test Kit
Ehiem 150 Liberty Filter
Thermometer
Background
30 lbs Fluorite Substrate

All in all I probably could have managed some way to spend less money but I am pleased with the deal and I think that's what matters. The tank, stand, hood and gravel are all being delivered next Wednesday so until then there's not much for me to do but to look at my heater, filter and background wistfully. I can't wait to get it all setup and start my fishless cycle!

Buying this stuff has of course raised a few more questions. As far as filtering goes, I was planning on getting a canister and an in-line heater but now I have a heater and a filter. If I decide to buy a canister later can I add it to my tank without throwing off the NH4, NO2, NO3 levels? I think people have talked about having a HOB filter in tanks with canister filters because that way if they need a backup filter for a hospital tank or whatever there is one with bacteria already colonized. Is it overkill to have a HOB and a canister? Especially on a 29 gal?

And as for substrates go. I went with the Fluorite because I plan on having at least a few live plants and it wasn't any extra $ to switch the regular gravel for Flourite. But if I don't put in any plants right away and let the substrate sit do all the beneficial nutrients leach out into the water and thus negate the point of having Fluorite? How long does the substrate stay fertile?

So much to learn and I haven't even got the tank into my house yet!

 

[gheitman]

Congratulations on getting your first tank. A 29 gallon tank is an excellent size to start with and will let you get some of the smaller plecos and some tetras. My first tank was 29 gallons and I still use it.

If you decide to buy a canister filter later, I suggest you run it in parallel for a few weeks with your HOB and then pull the latter filter out and keep it as a spare. Using both would be a bit of overkill on a 29 gallon tank. Of course some fish, such as the larger plecos and cichlids, generate a lot of waste and you may find using both filters very helpful. Running the two together would normally be more appropriate for a tank that is 55 gallons or bigger.

If you don't get plants right away you're not going to lose any nutrients from Flourite. That substrate is basically good forever. The one downside to using Flourite is that it is very dusty when you first get it. No matter how many times you rinse the gravel before you put it in the tank you are still going to see a cloud of dust when you first fill it up. Don't worry though, the dust will settle out after the gravel has been in the tank for a day or two.

The lighting in a standard hood isn't very powerful so you may find your selection of plants to be somewhat limited. When you do decide to get live plants I suggest you come back here for some suggestions and also check out the www.PlantGeek.net web site.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Post your questions regarding plants in the Planted Forum. They are pro's over there.

Regrding the filter, if you upgrade to a 55 gal in the future, I'd run the 29 gal filter and the 55 gal filter together on the 55 gal tank. That would be too much current for a 29. but, you'll cross that bridge when you get there.

Congrats and I can't wait to see pics of it completly set up!

 

[gamma_draconis]

I went to the hardware store yesterday to get some ammonia to get ready for my fishless cycle and was trying to find one that was pure. The only like they had was listed as containing "10% Ammonium Hydroxide". Is that an additive or is that what ammonia is? It said it was "janitorial strength".

 

[Fishyfanatic]

That is the correct ammonia to use.
It should look like this (only in a smaller container)

http://www.acehardware.com/largeIma...et/graphics/product_images/pACE3-951689dt.jpg

 

[gamma_draconis]

Okay, so the tank is being delivered tomorrow (squeel!) but I haven't aquired my test-kit yet. Is it possible to set it up and start cycling while I wait for the test-kit to arrive in the mail? I know I need to be taking levels readings to know what stage the cycle is at but I was hoping I could get things started for a few days until my order came.

Also, this is jumping the gun because I am in no way ready to have fish yet, but I'm trying to figure out a good species of pleco to get. I know bristlenose plecos stay small but I was wondering what other options are out there. I was thinking possibly candy stripe, clown or possibly a zebra. According to planetcatfish.com all these species tend to be around 3"-4" which seems appropriate as one of the main fish in my 29 gal. Am I totally off on that assumption?

 

[gamma_draconis]

The tank is now here! In my house. I am super excited about it. I was getting ready to set it all up when a somewhat silly question occured to me. How do people attach backgrounds to their tanks? Does it go on the outside or the inside. I have a plastic picture background (I think they're fairly standard) and have no idea how to put it on my tank.

 

[jinmon]

Congrats on having the tank in your house! I'm a total noob too, so I can't give you much advice on the background - I stuck mine onto the outside with plain old water, but it's now got air bubbles in parts (between the plastic and glass) and not looking so good. I've heard of people using vaseline or cooking oil as an adhesive but I haven't tried it, so.

But about the plecos - I'm in the same boat as you and I think I've settled on a bristlenose. I really like the clowns, zebras, etc - but as I started to look into it I realized I'd either not see them much and they wouldn't eat as much algae, or they'd eat almost NO algae - and I'd really like a pleco that's sucking all over the glass, etc. Also, some need wood and some don't really touch it, so. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I've found it was more complicated a choice than I'd originally thought!