Fish-In Cycling Question

[ragin1cajun]

One of my daughters wanted a fish tank for Christmas so I said what the heck, I know what I am doing since my brother and I had fish when we were teenagers.

Well, 20 years later, I went ahead and did everything based on memory. I do not remember, and havent asked my brother yet, cycling a tank. Seems like we just bought the tank, set up the tank, and put fish in.. Now that I have read the articles here and elsewhere I would much prefer to do a fishless cycle but I am where I am!

The tank is a 6 Gallon tank, in retrospect, I should have bought a bigger tank. I let the water sit for a day filtering before putting the fish in the tank.

2 Zebra Danios (Glofish)
1 Albino Cory Catfish

After reading about cycling and testing water I bought an API Master Test Kit. My water is always at about 1ppm Ammonia with Nitrite/Nitrate levels both at 0ppm. So, yesterday I did a 25% water change then checked the water 4 hours later and no change in Ammonia levels.

It didn't occur to me until today that there may be Ammonia in my tap water. I checked and the tap water tests at 8 pH, 1ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrite/Nitrate.

To condition the water going into the tank I have been using API Tap Water Conditioner which only removes Chlorine/Chloramines not Ammonia. I also used some Tetra SafeStart recommended by the store before putting the fish in the tank. Since I have not seen Ammonia go down I highly doubt the SafeStart did anything other than increase the stores revenue.

So 2 questions:

1. If I go get some Prime tomorrow, can I add it directly to the Aquarium to bring down the ammonia? Or should I proceed with daily 25% water changes treated with Prime?

2. pH for both Aquarium and tap water is testing around 8 to 8.2. Is this a cause for concern?

Thankfully, despite my initial ineptitude, the fish seem to be doing OK so far but I know I am gambling since the Ammonia has been at 1ppm for a couple days now..

 

[ktomminello]

dangerous ammonia

Sounds like you have a bumpy ride ahead of you- water changes of 50%, often. Use prime to condition your water, and I suggest seachem stability as well to boost nitrifying bacteria. I don't often suggest AmQuel+, because it messes with oxygen, but it might be what you need. Anything above .25 for ammonia is considered toxic, your tank may be too small to actually cycle without using an instant cycle (seachem stability and nutrafin cycle are my faves). Good luck!! Wish I could help more.

 

[DavidAl]

Prime will only detoxify the ammonia, it won't get rid of it, and it will only do so for 24 to 48 hours. Also, a pH at the level you're seeing will make the ammonia much more toxic, especially if the water is on the warmer side of the acceptable range.

It's hit or miss with Tetra Safestart. Check the expiration date on the ticket on the bottom of the bottle. If you got a good batch it may take a few more days for you to see the results. They recommend adding the TSS 24 hours after adding an ammonia removing conditioner to the water, although it doesn't say it on the bottle itself.

Is there any way you could take the fish back? Water changes will not do much if ammonia is present in your tap water. Do you know someone that can donate some filter media to help seed your tank with beneficial bacteria? It won't take much to get a 6-gallon seeded. Even a small net with mature gravel will suffice.

Zebra danios are hardy, but the cory might not fare so well. A fish-in cycle can have lasting effects on a fish. Sometimes you see it while the tank is cycling and sometimes well after.

I don't usually recommend zeolite, but this might be an appropriate course of action to take. If you can't return the fish, net some zeolite and put it in your filter. If this is not possible, put it in the path of the water flow.

Let us know what course of action you take.


David

 

[librarygirl]

Could you possibly take the fish back? Danios are active and should have more swimming room and need a larger shoal; same with the Cory. Then you can fishless cycle the tank and research better options for a 6 gal. Once the tank is cycled the 1 ppm of ammonia in the tap water will be processed by the bacteria and smaller water changes would limit the amount of ammonia going back into the tank.

For now though the 1 ppm in an uncycled tank with fish is a bit of a problem. Most dechlorinators should detoxify it but only temporarily and in an uncycled tank the ammonia won't be processed by the bacteria which still have to form. You could cut the tap water with spring water, a 50/50 mix maybe, which would help some. You could also add some fast-growing stem plants such as horwort that would suck up some of the ammonia, although if you're lighting isn't sufficient for certain plants the plants will then die causing more ammonia.

 

[ragin1cajun]

I am gonna have to keep the fish and make the best of it if possible!

I followed the suggestion given by ktomminellohttp://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/members/ktomminello-59613.html to do a 50% water change using Prime to treat the tap and the remaining water in the tank.

I also picked up some Nutrafin Cycle (they were out of Seachem Stability) and added it in per the instructions on the bottle.

Water is still testing w/ 1ppm of Ammo, and 0ppm for both Nitrite/Nitrate.

Here is something I wish I would have thought of sooner.. We have an aquatic turtle with an Aqueon filter. Can I take some filter material from it to seed the new tank? I tested that water and it is showing 0ppm Ammo and 0ppm Nitrite with very little Nitrate (maybe 5ppm). My only concern is whether I would transmit anything bad to the fish? To the best of my knowledge there is nothing wrong with the turtle, but I guess it could carry something bad for the fish that does not affect it?

Thanks all for the assistance!
David

 

[DavidAl]

Can I take some filter material from it to seed the new tank? I tested that water and it is showing 0ppm Ammo and 0ppm Nitrite with very little Nitrate (maybe 5ppm). My only concern is whether I would transmit anything bad to the fish? To the best of my knowledge there is nothing wrong with the turtle, but I guess it could carry something bad for the fish that does not affect it?

I don't see why not. Be mindful that you are removing nitrifying bacteria from the turtle's tank so feed lightly for the next week or so. It would be interesting to know if it works.

Keep us posted.

David

 

[ragin1cajun]

Seeded Filter Added

I don't see why not. Be mindful that you are removing nitrifying bacteria from the turtle's tank so feed lightly for the next week or so. It would be interesting to know if it works.

I went ahead and took the filter media out of the turtles filter and cut a piece the same size as my filter for the 6G fish tank.. I put a new filter in the turtles filter along with a piece of the old media to help seed it. I used a couple of safety pins to attach the used filter material to the fish tank filter and put it in the filter.

How long will it take to see an effect from the seeded filter material? I have to run some errands for several hours and was gonna test the water when I get back. Should I see a change in Ammo by then?

Again, Thanks for the Assistance!
David

 

[librarygirl]

Maybe not that quickly but it should help. Keep testing both tanks and do water changes any time ammonia and/or nitrite is over .25 until the bacteria catch up to the new load.

 

[ragin1cajun]

I just retested the water and the ammo is still at 1 ppm. Was hoping the filter media from the other tank would be a little faster than this. I guess I need to be a little more patient.

I am hesitant to do a water change at this point since my tap water tests at 1 ppm Ammo. If y'all think I should still do a water change let me know! I'm assuming that if I remove 1 ppm water and replace it with 1 ppm water then that is a wash and I haven't really accomplished anything. Let me know if my assumption is incorrect!

I will be adding some more Prime directly to the tank tomorrow to detox the ammo that is present. Is this a good or a bad idea at this point?

The only other thing I have added today is the 2nd day of Nutrafin Cycle.

David

 

[ragin1cajun]

Good News! I just tested again and finally got different results:

7.8 pH
Between .5 & 1 ppm Ammo (appears to be a lighter shade of green to me)
.25 Nitrite
0 Nitrate

Rehoming the filter from the turtle tank seems to have sped things up a bit. Nitrites finally showed up to the party! Nitrates are still 0 so I am assuming the cycle is still in the process of establishing itself!

I would do a PWC, but as mentioned before my tap water tests at 1 ppm Ammo so instead of PWC I have been dosing the tank with Prime every other day to detox the ammo present.

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[ragin1cajun]

More progress to report! I tested again this evening and here are the results:

pH = 7.8
Ammo = .5 ppm
Nitrite = Either 2 or 5 ppm
Nitrate = Either 40 or 80 ppm

So with the ammo being down to .5 it seems the Ammo eating bacteria are getting established. However, with Nitrites being high gotta be patient for the next step to get under way.

With Nitrites being as high as they were, I went ahead and did a 50% water change under the assumption (from reading other posts here) that would be the advice.

I did figure out one mistake I have been making with the Nitrate test! I haven't been shaking the #2 bottle for 30 seconds. I have been shaking the test tube for 30 seconds after adding 10 drops from bottle #1.. I have read and reread the directions several times and just now read it the "right" way. Hate when I do that!

Thanks,
David

 

[Hholly]

Sounds like you're getting the hang of things. Be sure to dose the Prime for the whole tank volume every time. In a 6 gal. I guess you can't help it. Lol. Good luck!

 

[ragin1cajun]

I tested again this morning and still making progress..

pH = 7.4
Ammo = .25
Nitrite = .5
Nitrate = 10-20

I went ahead and did a PWC this morning and just retested after a couple of hours.

pH = 7.4
Ammo = .5
Nitrite = .25
Nitrate = 5

The ammo increase is expected since my tap water tests at 1 ppm. I did treat the new water with Prime.

Does taking the Nitrite out via PWC slow down or lengthen the cycling process? I know I need to do the PWC since this is a fish-in cycle. This was just a question that came to mind.

Thanks,
David

 

[Hholly]

Looking good!

 

[DavidAl]

Does taking the Nitrite out via PWC slow down or lengthen the cycling process? I know I need to do the PWC since this is a fish-in cycle. This was just a question that came to mind.

Thanks,
David

The nitrite-consuming bacteria still need nitrite (ammonia, really) to build a healthy colony that will eventually support the bioload. But I wouldn't worry about that. It's more important to keep your fish alive and as near as healthy as possible. Keep the nitrites below .5. If you're worried about the effects it may have on your fish then add some aquarium salt. One tsp per 10 gallon is all you need to counter brown blood disease, a nitrite-causing disease that affects how hemoglobin is transported in the blood.

David

 

[ragin1cajun]

Unfortunately, we lost one of the Danios today. We came home from some errands and it was just bobbing around on the bottom of the tank. My daughter and I gently netted him and got no response from it.

Kinda sad, especially since the tank seems to be cycling finally with both Ammo and Nitrite headed in the right direction. I guess doing regular PWC, plus dosing the tank with Prime every other day was not enough. I'm hopeful the other Danio and Albino Cory are able to pull through.

DavidAl -- I did go ahead and get some API Aquarium Salt while we were out earlier. The box said to put 1 heaping Tablespoon in per 5 Gallons of water. I only added a single tablespoon rather than 1 per Gallon as you suggested. If you think I should add more I will. I thought I would ask first since it is easier to add more than remove some!!

Thanks,
David

 

[DavidAl]

DavidAl -- I did go ahead and get some API Aquarium Salt while we were out earlier. The box said to put 1 heaping Tablespoon in per 5 Gallons of water. I only added a single tablespoon rather than 1 per Gallon as you suggested. If you think I should add more I will. I thought I would ask first since it is easier to add more than remove some!!

Thanks,
David

Hi ragin1,

My recommendation was for 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per 10 gallons of water. That is all you need to counter nitrite toxicity.

David

 

[ragin1cajun]

DavidAl -- Thank You! I was going off of memory when I misquoted you! Why I would rely on my memory after a full day with 4 hyped up children is beyond me!

 

[DavidAl]

No problem.

Fish go through a lot of stress when they're made to live in a toxic environment. It may shorten their lifespan considerably. Sometimes they don't make it through the cycle phase, as you're witnessing firsthand, and at times they die shortly after. Yet sometimes they seem unaffected and live for a pretty long time. You're almost done, though, so hang tight.

David

 

[Mrs.h2012]

I started out with a little 10g. I cycled it with two platies. One recently died but my other is still alive and looking well. With my 10g cycled filter media I basically instantly cycled a 30g and past that I just asked LFS for media anytime I got new fish. I've only had one trace of ammonia since my cycle finished up September 2012. Other than that I've had nothing but cycled readings. It can be done, your doing very well just hang in there! Getting that first tank cycled is the one of the
most anxious times during this hobby, next anxious would be right before you get to upgrade to a bigger tank! But as long as you get that first tank cycled and keep it maintained properly, seeding future tanks is a breeze!