Fishless Cycle Confused

[chadthedad]

I am doing a fishless cycle and it is coming along nicely. I visited my LFS recently to see if they stocked the fish I want or if they could get them to get an idea on prices. I had mentioned I was doing a fishless cycle and planned on fully stocking the aquarium all at once. They told me I still needed to very slowly add fish.

From the research I have done I was under the impression that since I was doing a fishless cycle with ammonia I could then stock the aquarium with fish all at once. Am I wrong?!?

 

[Sum22]

You should be able to fully stock the tank. I have seen recommendations of people adding one species at a time, or just adding 30%-50% of the fish they plan to have at a time. It allows time for the tank to adjust and it gives you time to make sure the fish are ok before adding more.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-dummies-103339.html

That might answer some of the questions.

 

[CaptainAhab]

It's still recommended to add fish slowly, a few at a time. It's hard to tell how much bacteria that has built up so you add a few fish and test after a few days to make sure the ammonia is getting converted to....well you know the rest of the story. If you're a little light on the bacteria a few weeks will give it a chance to build up to the load that you just added. Then you add a few more.

Keeping in mind that once you're moving you will always have just enough bacteria to convert the waste generated by the current population. Available bacteria is equal to the amount of waste. So , when you add more fish there is not enough bacteria for that new additional amount of waste. Sooooo the little buggers need to multiply to catch up.

and the pattern begins again.


Adding too many at once may raise the waste level to near toxic (more likely stressful) levels before it catches up. Stressed fish increases their susceptibility to disease (esp ich) and can make them ornery.

So, to quote a phrase..

That's the poop......

Obviously I disagree w/ Sum22 on the 'You should be able to fully stock the tank' advice

 

[Sum22]

Obviously I disagree w/ Sum22 on the 'You should be able to fully stock the tank' advice

There are many other things to consider when talking about "fully stocking". What size tank? How many fish are you planning to add?

If you plan on having 8 - 2" fish in your 55g tank, because they grow to larger sizes later in life, I don't see how adding all the fish at once is going to cause a problem.

 

[chadthedad]

Here are some details...

75 Gallon Tank
6-Boesmani Rainbows
6-Praecox Rainbows
6-Cherry Barbs
8-Neon Tetras
6-Otocinclus
6-Panda Corys

How many should I add in the beginning? I will be getting young fish and don't think any are over 2"

 

[Zagz]

I personally would not add all those fish at once. I would add the cories, the neons, and the otos and possibly the barbs. Then I would add the sets of rainbows each one week after the initial stocking so you can watch the parameters. Total time would be 3 weeks.

 

[roka64]

I agree, slow stocking is a wise idea. Even if the tank is cycled, adding too many fish at once can overload the biological filtration. This will effect the amount of ammonia/nitrItes the bio filter can convert to nitrAtes. Your LFS seems to be honest and giving you great advice and not trying to just make money.

 

[neilanh]

how much ammonia are you dosing? If you're dosing large amounts (4-5ppm) then I would argue that you're building up a biological filter much larger than even that fish load could provide, and would be ok adding all of them at once.

 

[Sum22]

I would add 2 species to start and then wait 2 weeks before adding more fish. After that, I'd add another 2 species, wait 1-2 weeks and add another. Make sure to add the otos last since they are delicate and tend to die if they don't have a well established tank.

 

[chadthedad]

I am dosing between 4-5ppm.

 

[FiveSix]

I think both arguments have their pros and cons, I started a fishless cycles dosing ammonia trying to keep it near 4-5 ppm. I have a 55g non planted. I am not a biologist so I can't tell you how much ammonia your fish will leave, let alone uneaten food or any other thing that could be a factor. I am in no way an expert (and pretty much asked the same questions you are asking back in March and April), but here is something to think about.

What will your cories eat? I have my 55g with 35 neons and 5 Corydoras habrosus. All I know is My Neons will not leave a piece of food anywhere EVER! They eat it all so I have to sneak in late at night and drop a small piece of a sinking pellet a couple times a week so I know they're (corys) not starving.
Same goes for the ottos, if the tank is Super new and clean will they starve?

Ok but what if you add slow and you have to respike a small cycle every time you add fish? I say add a BIG portion 2/3 of the most hardy of what you want, then add the corys and ottos last so they can grab the detritus and algae. Again, this is me on how I see it and am no way close to what most of these guys here know.


Basically I think you'd be able to add them all at once in terms of water quality, but what about each species eating habits.


OH and Thanks again NEILANH for answering all my questions a few months back

 

[chadthedad]

Thanks for all the help I really appreciated it.

 

[CaptainAhab]

You are correct Sum, that it depends on the overall size of the tank along with how high you dosed during the cycle, the species of fish and a host of other factors. Given those items were not provided advising a phased approach seemed the most prudent course.

 

[JohnPaul]

I wouldn't add any ottos until after you have some visible algae buildup. Otherwise, like others said, I would add fish maybe two schools at a time, roughly a week or two apart, just to make sure you don't overwhelm the filter.

 

[chadthedad]

Okay, I added ammonia to between 4-5ppm about a week and a half ago and have been testing daily. I checked this morning and the ammonia level looks to be down to 1ppm so I checked nitrIte and still got a reading of zero. Is that normal? I thought if the ammonia was dropping nitrIte should be visible.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Look for the expiration date on your testkit

reread the instructions for the test kit just to make sure your doing it correctly

take some water to the LFS and have them test and see if it reads the same

 

[chadthedad]

Test kit is not expired and I am doing the test correctly. Before I run off to the lfs though, is it normal for ammonia to drop from 4 to 1 before nitrItes show up?

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Can we have more detail about your setup:
Live plants in the tank?
Using a ammonia reducing filter media?(forget what they are called)

Confirm: You dosed ammonia 1 time, to 4-5ppm, over 1 week ago. never added more ammonia? meaning today is the 1st day it lowered?

What did the test show yesterday?

Any water changes since you have been adding ammonia?

 

[chadthedad]

On July 7th I dosed pure Ammonia to 4ppm and tested everyday after that with no drop. I had one drop down to 2ppm on July 11th so I brought the level back up to 4ppm. The last test before this was on July 13th which still read 4ppm. Then we got a puppy and I didn't get to run a test on the 14th or 15th. So it could have dropped one of those days. This is a freshwater fish only 75 gallon tank. The temp is a little over 80 degrees. No water changes since starting the cycle.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

Well I would say yeah you should be seeing NitrItes then.

No seed filter media or gravel was added, just a fresh start correct?

Ammonia doesn't just disappear, well AFAIK

Hopefully the LFS test will solve this.