Fishless cycle driving me crazy

[Louch]

Hi Everyone

My very first post. Love this place - have been reading heaps but haven't posted until today. Am obviously a noob

Have read the "Almost Complete Guide to Fishless Cycling" about 10 times - I mean every post to make sure I am doing this right.

OK - fish less cycle driving me absolutely insane.

I have :
Juwel Lido
HOB Aquaclear Filter (took out the in built filter as I didn't like it and the parts are too expensive here)
I am about to add a C2 Fluval HOB as well
Juwel Heater
Water temp currently 30 degrees C - sorry, am Australia and speak in metric
Natural gravel with lots of plants
Plants thriving
The Juwel lights that came with the tank (T5 flouros?)
Lights only coming on 8 hours a day while cycling
Add 5ml Seachem Excel for CO2 every 2nd day - the whole CO2 set up with bubbles all a bit scary at present
My usual water parameters are 0 NH3, 0 nitrites/ates and pH at 7.4. This is straight out of the tap.
An using API master kit testing - appears to be in date. Shake the life out of all the bottles before using
Haven't tested nitrates because of large plant numbers and figured there probably wasn't much point yet.
Also add API tap water conditioner prior to adding new water.

Started cycling on the 3rd February

Seeded tank with large amount of ceramic noodles from LFS

Cannot get a pure source of NH3 here without using powdered form (amonochlor). Use that daily to get the ammonia to 4 ppm.

All seemed to be going well.

By the 19th Feb, the NH3 had come down to 0.25 ppm and nitrites sitting at 5+
On the 21st Feb, NH3 started going back UP. Went up to 2 ppm by the 23rd so did a large water change. pH was 7.2 at that stage.

By the 26 Feb, the NH3 was going down and reached 0
Today back at 0.25 ppm.



Can anyone tell me why the ammonia is going up and down?? I am getting really annoyed!!

One thing I realised this morning, is when I have been making up the amonochlor, I forgot to dechlorinate the water :face palm: - each morning as the ammonia goes down again, I am only adding about 3 tablespoons to the whole tank to get it back up to 4ppm. Would this be enough to kill small amounts of the bacteria??

My final bit of self-revealing is that I am actually a veterinarian
I have been practising for over 10 years but have never seen a fish in my life in practice. I had 4 fish lectures in my final year by our resident cow vet who apparently had a few tanks I have been rather stunned by the whole complicated process and feel like I now also have a PhD in chemistry. My husband is highly amused.

The fish tank looks great with no fish As I mentioned, plants are very happy.
I am not!

Any help appreciated.

 

[librarygirl]

hi and welcome!

I'm not too familiar with the Ammonochlor but I've read others using it to fishless cycle tanks. As for the ammonia levels, either you accidentally dosed too high and the bacteria couldn't convert it all in 24 hours or for some reason the ammonia stopped falling as fast (usually due to a stall, either too high nitrites for too long or PH dropping or forgetting to dose dechlorinator, etc). But honestly I wouldn't worry too much about a .25 ammonia reading; if the bacteria are still chewing through over 3 ppms of ammonia in 24 hours that's still very good and unless you severely overstock the tank your fish will never produce anywhere near 4 ppms of ammonia (we dose it that high as overkill so that you can stock the tank fully right after the cycle).

Just keep an eye on PH, make sure it stays stable and doesn't start to fall. Also you could start testing nitrate, that way we can see if any of the nitrites are being converted into nitrate. With the nitrate test, shake both bottles and bang them a few times on a hard surface or against your palm; bottle #2 has a reagent powder that can get clumped and cause false readings. You also want to shake bottle #2 for a full 30 seconds and the tube vigorously or a full 60 seconds.

Keep us updated

 

[Louch]

Thanks so much librarygirl

I have just tested the pH and nitrates for the first time in a while and pH has fallen to 6 and nitrates are off the charts.

So I'll do a water change as per Eco's instructions and hopefully things will continue moving along.

My kids are so funny - everyday it's "when can we put fish in the tank???". Unfortunately we got a few snails along with the plants so our entertainment at the moment is squishing them each morning. Gets rid of some of the frustration while waiting for the tank to cycle

 

[Jill]

Thanks so much librarygirl

I have just tested the pH and nitrates for the first time in a while and pH has fallen to 6 and nitrates are off the charts.

So I'll do a water change as per Eco's instructions and hopefully things will continue moving along.

My kids are so funny - everyday it's "when can we put fish in the tank???". Unfortunately we got a few snails along with the plants so our entertainment at the moment is squishing them each morning. Gets rid of some of the frustration while waiting for the tank to cycle

LOL!!!

Welcome to AA!!

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks so much librarygirl

I have just tested the pH and nitrates for the first time in a while and pH has fallen to 6 and nitrates are off the charts.

So I'll do a water change as per Eco's instructions and hopefully things will continue moving along.

My kids are so funny - everyday it's "when can we put fish in the tank???". Unfortunately we got a few snails along with the plants so our entertainment at the moment is squishing them each morning. Gets rid of some of the frustration while waiting for the tank to cycle

GOod so you definitely have conversion. A PH of 6 could have stalled things too. A water change is a good idea. If it keeps falling you may need to buffer it with some crushed coral but we'll see how things play out.

Snails can be fun to watch actually (although if you have a lot of them I guess that would be annoying).

 

[jlk]

Welcome!! I am glad theres a vet on board! I agree its time for a water change to re-establish your water's buffers. Dont worry too much about the slight fluctuations in ammonia- a cycles progression is not set in stone and a bunch of variables come into play (alot of them we dont account for either in fw). Just keep daily checks on your ph while your cycling.

If you havent done so already, check your tap for amm, nitrite & nitrates so you know where your starting from. You will need to also do a ph test to see where your actual ph sits. Place some tap water out, preferably with an airstone or bubbler, and leave it overnight. If you dont have an extra aeration, just give it a good stir every so often to allow it to gas out. Check the ph tommorrow & let us know what it reads. Dont hesitate to ask questions!

 

[Louch]

Thanks so much everyone - this is such a friendly forum!! As for knowing anything about fishies - I have learned more here in the last few weeks than I ever learned at uni. We actually have an official "fish vet" here now where I live - he was the year below me - I emailed him re an ammonia source for fish less cycling but I don't think he even knew what I was talking about So please educate me as much as possible!!!

 

[rotorhead22]

Hi, I too am pretty new to the forum. I was having the same sort of issues with my fishless cycling of a 55 gallon tank -ammonia was stuck at .25 ppm so I continued dosing to 4 ppm and made 1 pwc. Eventually, the levels did drop to 0. You can see my plots here http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/55-gal-cycling-question-192387.html Engineers like data and plots.

What are your NO2 levels like? As librarygirl stated, the pH crash might have set your cycle back a little. I think with the pwc and keeping an eye on the pH, you should be just fine and on the way to a complete cycle.

-rotorhead22