Fishless cycling - Help please!

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Monzie

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
57
Hi there...

My family is new to "proper" fish keeping. (We've kept bettas in bowls pretty successfully for many years but never anything with a filter or fancy stuff...)

We recently purchased the 27 gal Marineland "cube" setup from Petsmart. We're running an Eheim Classic 250 canister filter with a Hydor inline heater. Got a simple bubble stone, some basic substrate, and a few plastic decorations and that's it for now. We're planning on a simple, beginners freshwater tank for my kids to enjoy. But first, we need to get the darned water cycled. :huh:

(For the record, I am following the fishless cycling recommendations I found here: The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice )

So, we added our conditioned water on March 24th. Got all the mechanical bits working and cranked up the bubbles and the temp to 80 degrees. Straight out of the tap, our water pH is around 7.6/7.8 (we're on the border between the two API pH test kits but let's just say we have seriously hard water here and leave it at that). I dosed up the ammonia to 4 ppm with Dr Tim's ammonia and let 'er go. Kept tabs on the ammonia every few days for about a week, recalibrating to 4 ppm as needed. Once the nitrite started to appear, I started testing everything daily. I haven't been keeping a log of my results but my memory is pretty decent. By the third week, our ammonia was dropping to 0 within 24 hours and nitrites were holding steady at around 2. A week later, nitrate started to appear and I thought we were golden. According to the instructions, we would soon see a day when the ammonia and nitrite both disappeared. So I waited patiently and kept testing the water and adding ammonia (sometimes more than once a day). But the nitrates are still hanging around.

As I mentioned in a different thread, I have some issues with reading the nitrate test results. Once they exceed 1 ppm, I can't really see much difference in the color in the test tube. Also, I notice that the results vary widely within only a minute or two of making a reading. For example, this morning my nitrite test looked *sorta* like 1 ppm at the five minute mark but, two minutes later, it looked like 0.25. I wonder whether this test is really so accurate and sensitive that two minutes can make such an enormous difference???

Be that as it may....

I'm beginning to wonder whether we have messed this up somewhere along the line and if our cycle has stalled. I asked the guys at the local fish store for help and they looked at me like I was crazy and told me to just buy some hardy fish and throw 'em in the tank. Gee, thanks for the help, fish dudes.

So, I've done a ridiculous amount of reading, trying to get some answers. Of course, I get conflicting advice and can't seem to find anyone who has the exact same situation that we do. So now I'm turning to you folks for some words of wisdom. What should I do now?

Here are this morning's API test results:

pH 8.4
Ammo - 0.25
Nitrite - 1 (I think?)
Nitrate - 20

We haven't done any PWC, although I have been topping off the tank with about half a gallon of conditioned water every few days. Is a PWC our next logical step? If so, how much do we change? I'm really starting to feel helpless at this point. Six weeks seems like a really long time to wait...especially when you see people walking out of Petsmart with a brand new 10-gallon setup and bags full of fish (that are probably doomed...but still).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts....
 
Welcome to AA! It sounds like your off to a great start here! Quick question on your nitrite and nitrate results. When you test for nitrite, do the blue drops start to turn purple before they hit the bottom of the tube or do they turn purple before you shake the tube? On the nitrate test, are you really shaking and banging both bottles on a hard surface before testing? Is your ammonia still zeroing in 24hrs right now? Are you conditioning the water you are using for top offs? These answers will help to figure out where you are at and what is going on here! :)
 
Hey, jlk...

The nitrite drops turn dark purple as they drift to the bottom of the test tube and then remain a fairly dark magenta as I shake it up. The color slowly lightens as the tube sits. I check the color after 5 minutes, according to the directions that came with the kit. And this is where I'm a bit confused because the color continues to lighten after I make my 5 minute reading. Today, for example, my test was 1 ppm at 5 min but then lightened to closer to .25 by the time I rinsed out the tube, a few minutes later.

As for the nitrate test, I shake the #2 bottle vigorously for 30 seconds but don't do anything special with the #1 bottle. The instructions didn't say to do anything with that one. And then once I have both of the reagents in the tube, I shake that for at least a minute. My nitrate levels have been a little up-and-down...maxing at around 80 but generally reading 20 or 40 (again, hard to tell a difference between those two colors on the API chart).

Oh, and my ammonia was at .25 when I tested this morning because it had been less than 12 hours since I added ammonia drops. It has been clearing to 0 consistently within 24 hours (or less) for almost a month now. I have used up almost my entire bottle of Dr Tim's and just needed to order another, which is part of the reason I felt that I should post something here. (I've added a few tiny pinches of pulverized fish food too, by the way.)

I always condition my top-off water with Prime before I add it. And, as I said, I haven't done any PWCs yet. The "simple" instructions I'm following said I'd need to do that if my API test results were unreadable. But I haven't seen any off-the-chart tests so far, so I didn't know whether I should change the water or not. Didn't want to mess anything up, dontchaknow. ;)

Anyway. I'll post my water results again tomorrow. In the meantime, if I should be getting my water buckets ready, let me know! Thanks!!
 
Thanks! Ok, bad news first. Your cycle is stalled but it's an easy fix and, yes, it requires those buckets!

There's a few little things with the liquid tests that are not mentioned in the directions verbatim. Easy tips first- shake all the bottles before testing. With the nitrate bottles, bang them on a hard surface while shaking. If the ammonia bottles sit for a long time (as in weeks+), bang them too.

With the nitrite test, when your nitrite levels reach way off the chart levels, the test can no longer read it accurately. If you wait 5mins, the result may turn pale purple, blue, grey, clear or even hot pink. What you need to watch is the drops- if they turn purple as they fall or before shaking, your nitrite levels are very high (5+). When your levels are still readable, the test will start off blue and turn purple in 30sec, a minute, 2 mins or even 5mins and stay purple (even 24hrs later).

When nitrite levels reach very high levels they can slow or stall a cycle and it sounds like yours have been very high for awhile now. So, time for a big-as in as close to 100% as possible- water change. Make sure you temperature match and properly condition and that you leave your filters off for a good 10-15mins before turning your them back on (turn them off before doing the wc). Wait half hr and retest your nitrites. Don't be surprised if they are still off the charts high! Here's the bad news- you may have to do a couple huge wcs to bring them down to a readable level (under 2ppm though under 1 is better).

I know you mentioned your out of ammonia- that's fine right now! Just add a few pinches of crushed fish food and let us know how things look in 24hrs! Let us know when you do get more ammonia because your dosing schedule will need some modification until things are progressing again and to keep things under control. Please ask if you have questions! :)
 
Fantastic! This is exactly the sort of info I needed. I knew something wasn't right but couldn't figure out what.

I won't be able to do any water changes until tomorrow night after my kiddos are in bed. I still have a little bit of Dr Tim's and my new bottle should be here tomorrow. So I'll give the tank another dose tonight. I'll also take your advice on shaking up those API bottles. :D

Quick question about the new water for my changes.... The hot water in my house is softened. The cold tap in my kitchen isn't and that's what we started the aquarium off with. So, which is the better choice: cold, unsoftened water? or warm, softened water? I have four 5-gallon buckets and I could fill 'em up with cold water and let them sit until they reached room temp, I suppose. But I hesitate to do that because I have a couple of curious preschoolers in my house and having open buckets of water sitting around all day makes me nervous. Thoughts?
 
Hmm...you have a problem here! Ok, do not use the softened water. Short term solution would be to fill the buckets say 3/4ths full then micro or heat the rest of the water on the stove (not boil though-just heat) and add it to the buckets to bring them up to a better temp than cold. Longterm, you will need to find an easier option for water changes when you have fish. Maybe a larger container to hold water than buckets that you could fill the night before or use a tank heater to warm the water quickly. Trying to think of easier options but I am drawing a blank at the moment!
 
Yeah. I figured I would get some practical water change info from the guys at the local fish store, since everyone here has hard water and most homes have softened water. I'm sure those guys will have some suggestions for me. But for now, I think I'll do what you mentioned and warm the cold tap water with a little water heated on the stove. Regardless, water changes are going to be a mess for us because we won't be able to use one of those handy little hoses that attach to the faucet. It's gonna have to be the bucket brigade around here, I guess. Fun fun....
 
So today I made sure to shake up all the API bottles and bang them on the counter before performing our water tests. What a difference! I finally got a stable result from the nitrite drops. And yes, they appear to be off the charts. Thanks so much for suggesting that I do that.

Anyway. Here are today's numbers...

Ammo 0
Nitrite 5
Nitrate 80 (or maybe 40???? hard to tell the difference )
Didn't bother with pH because I know it's high.

So tonight we'll do a big water change and hope for some improvement. How long should I wait before retesting the water? How long should we wait before changing water again? Thanks again for the help!
 
Wait atleast 1/2 hour after turning everything back on before testing. Lets see how things look and see if another change may be necessary. :)
 
Okay, PWC done and we managed to swap out about 90% of the water in the tank. We tempered the cold tap water with some unsoftened water I'd heated on the stove. We got the buckets up to 70 degrees, which I didn't think was too bad considering what we had to work with.

Waited 30 min to turn everything back on and then waited until the filter ran for another 30 min before doing a water test. The results are not terribly surprising, I guess:

Ammo - 0
Nitrite - 5 (or maybe slightly lower but definitely still on the higher end of the color card)
Nitrate - 40? 80? (again, these dark oranges look the same to me)
pH - 7.6

So, I assume we need to do another big water change. The earliest we'll be able to do that is tomorrow evening. Is that okay? And should I continue to add the same amount of ammonium chloride?

:thanks:
 
Is the orange a dark orange or a red orange? Another little tip about these tests. I am not sure why API does this but the color charts are a bit different on the individual tests vs the master kit. Lower numbers are bit easier to discern on the individual tests. No worries though! My suggestion is not add any ammonia tonight and lets see if your nitrates increase in the next 24hrs. :)
 
Got your message a little too late. I added some ammonium before I went to bed. Haven't checked water today but we're planning to do another water change tonight and I'll report back after that.

So, once we do enough PWCs to get the nitrites and nitrates down to readable levels will the cycle just restart itself?
 
My husband did another major water change a few hours ago and I just retested...

Ammo - 0
Nitrite - 0 (yay!)
Nitrate - 40

So looks like we finally got the nitrites down to a manageable level. (y)

I haven't added any ammonia yet but assume that I'll need to dose it back up to get the cycle rolling again. But I'll wait for some input before doing anything...
 
Okay, so I added ammonium to 1 ppm and went to bed. Here are the numbers, 12 hours later:

Ammo - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - indiscriminate dark reddish orange that's either 40 or 80

Things seem to be improving. You think maybe we'll be able to buy some fish by Mother's Day??
 
Thats great!!! Ok, wait until this evening (when you have been normally dosing) and increase the ammonia dose by .5ppm. Hopefully, you will see all zeroes tomorrow and then you can work on gradually increasing by .5ppm each day until the tank is zeroing 4ppm in 24hrs. :)
 
Okay. Added Dr Tim's last night, then tested the water 12 hours later. Ammonia and nitrite at 0, nitrates are at 80 (I think...still kinda hate this test). Will up the amount of ammonium chloride I add slightly again tonight, unless anyone recommends otherwise.

At this point, what should the nitrate level be doing? What's the point where *that* starts to be cause for concern?
 
Nitrates should be increasing pretty steadily. Test is pain as it jumps so much that its really hard to tell but as long as your ammonia and nitrite continue to zero and your ph stays stable, things are looking great!! Go ahead and increase the ammonia some tonight and lets hope for more zeroes tomorrow! :)
 
Another small increase in the amount of Dr Tim's added last night and today's numbers still look good:

Ammo - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 80

The pH is getting pretty high again, though...around 8.4. Is this normal? Granted, we had hard water to begin with (approx. 7.8 straight from the tap) but this stuff has only been in the tank for a few days.
 
Back
Top Bottom