Hi. Fishless cycle question.

[niawomad]

Hi all, new to the hobby been researching initially probably 9 months back waited a while then started researching more again recently and setup my first tank around 3 weeks ago. I have been reading through the site for a while before actually creating an account but wanted to ask some questions.

As I said the tank has been setup for around 3 weeks it is currently fishless, I started dosing ammonia 1 week in. I'm having a few "problems" that I wanted to get some advice on. I will post the questions below, feel free to post any advice here but I will likely post another thread also. Let me know if I am missing any key info.

Tank Info
145L
600l/h Pump
LED Light (23w)
Heater (Currently at 27c)
Planted Tank
Aquasoil and Sand
Pebbles, Bogwood, Spiderwood, Dragonstone
Testing Kit - API Freshwater Master Test Kit
Eheim 400 Air Pump with Airstone


1. I have been dosing ammonia (Dr Tims) between 2-3ppm and topping it up when it goes down to 1 for the last few weeks. About 10 days in nitrites went to 0.25 from 0 and has mostly been that since, apart from a couple of days that were 0.5. The issue I am having (if it is an issue) is that 2 of the last 4 days my nitrates have been at 160ppm which I have done water changes and got rid of but I wanted to know if it was normal that the Nitrites are mostly at 0.25ppm and not increasing above that but Nitrates are hitting 160ppm. In my mind I thought that Nitrites would be getting high first and then the nitrates would go off the scale eventually but my tank has skipped the Nitrites getting high and went straight to high Nitrates, so I wanted to know if this is good/normal or if theres a problem.

2. My PH went low yesterday. It has been at 6.6-6.8 up until yesterday where it went to 7.6 but nitrates were at 160ppm so I did a water change, tested today and my PH was at 6. I added some crushed coral to the filter hoping this would help which it has done previously a little but that PH seems quite low and thought someone might be able to give a bit of advice on why this could be happening.

Let me know if there is any info missing and I am looking forward to learning more about the hobby.

Thanks

 

[Aiken Drum]

I would say your fishless cycle isnt progressing as you would normally expect. Not in a bad way though. Its just progressed more quickly than you would normally expect.

What you would normally see is a week or 2 for your cycle to establish enough for your initial dose of ammonia to go to nitrite, and another couple of weeks until your cycle establishes enough to completely cycle out your daily dose of ammonia. During this time you would expect to see nitrite get high, and another couple of weeks for nitrate to show up, then another couple of weeks until your daily ammonia dose and any nitrite is completely cycled out. At this point you are cycled.

Yours has just progressed much quicker than that. Thats great. Your water temperature is pretty much bang on for speeding things up. You havent mentioned if you used any seeded filter media or a bacterial supplement. If so, it worked a treat.

If you are confident in the amount of ammonia you've been dosing and you have been testing correctly i wouldnt worry.

As to pH, there will be all sorts of things going on in the tank that will alter pH. The nitrogen cycle, fish respiration and the driftwood will lower pH. Plant respiration will raise it. Maybe you have rocks or substrate that raise pH. The ammonia you have been dosing is at much higher levels than a tank full of fish will produce, so the nitrogen cycle will be having a bigger effect on pH now than it will be doing with fish. Carbonate hardness (KH) is important to maintain steady pH, and the nitrogen cycle will use up KH. As already said, the nitrogen cycle is working harder during your fishless cycle than it will with fish, so the KH will get used up quicker and you will see bigger variations at this time.

I would let your tank settle down with fish before worrying about pH and such. See how things go over a couple of months. Might be worth getting the water parameters for your tap water as a comparison. Your water company should be able to provide a full work up. Otherwise let some tap water sit in a jug for 24 hours them test it yourself.

 

[niawomad]

I have used API Quickstart initially and sometimes with my water changes and have been using Leaf Zone and CO2 Booster for the plants. I have added crushed coral at times when my PH was lowering that is just in a mesh bag currently in the filter. I will do the tap water test and report back with the info. So for the moment would you recommend just doing as I am and continuing with that or are you recommending adding fish?

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you are able to dose 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later see zero ammonia and nitrite you are cycled sufficiently to moderately stock your tank. Do a big water change to get nitrate down to about 10ppm before doing so.

Warning about CO2 booster. Its poisonous to fish and not even a CO2 booster. Its main ingredient is glutaraldehyde, which is used to sterilise medical equipment and is a mild algaecide. It works by removing a little algae from the surface of plants leafs and so it can better take up available CO2 from the water. Many supplements in the aquarium hobby, they lie about the benefits, they do nothing useful or are outright hazardous. CO2 booster products firmly fit in this category and manufacturers will continue to push them as long as people buy them.

Save your money.

 

[niawomad]

Ok no problem appreciate all of your help, will stop using the CO2 booster also, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Colin_T]

Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading. Do not bother testing for nitrates until the ammonia and nitrite have both gone up and come back down to 0ppm. Any nitrite in the water will give a much higher nitrate reading.

Nitrate test kits can give false readings if they aren't shaken long enough, or there is residue from previous tests in the phial.

If you think the test was faulty, check the tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and check the tank water too. If possible get some distilled water and test that. Distilled water should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 0 GH, 0 KH and a pH of 7.0.

You can also take a sample of water to a pet shop and get them to test it for you. Take your test kits along and test the same sample at the same time. Then compare your results to the shop's results. If you get different results, one of the kits is faulty.

-----------------

If your water company changed water source, you could end up getting acidic water (pH below 7.0) instead of basic water (pH above 7.0). Get a container of tap water and check the pH of that straight away, and write the results down. Then test that same sample of water 24 hours later and a week later. See if there's any difference in the results.

 

[niawomad]

Thanks for the input Colin, I took some pictures of the readings from the tap water both 24h after and as soon it came out. I also did readings for the tank as it is right now. Here is a link with the images of those tests: https://imgur.com/a/tnH5edq

I added ammonia to the tank last night as I have been doing when the ammonia was testing low.

When I am doing the Nitrate test I shake it very well and bang it on the table etc, I had read previous to getting the kit that I should probably do that so have done so since I got it.

 

[Colin_T]

Going off the pictures, your tank is about half way through the cycling process. You have ammonia and nitrite readings, which means there is some bacteria that is converting the ammonia into nitrite. The nitrate is low and not worth worrying about.

The pH of the aquarium water is a bit low. You can either do a huge (90-100%) water change using dechlorinated water, or add a bit of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda/ powder). You only need a bit of sodium bicarbonate to raise the pH. Add 1 level teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate to a 1 litre bucket of dechlorinated water, stir it up and make sure the sodium bicarb is completely dissolve, then pour some into the tank. Check the pH an hour later and add more if required. You can also add some limestone, shells or dead coral rubble to the tank to help bring the pH up. Add a bit, monitor the pH over a couple of weeks and add more if required. Continue adding and monitoring the pH until you get a level you want.

You want the pH to stay around 7.0 during cycling because if it gets too low (below 6.0) the cycling process can slow down, and it can stall if the pH drops below 5.0.

Depending on what fish you plan on keeping, will determine what you should try to keep the pH at. Your tap water has a nice neutral pH around 7.0. However, it slowly drops in the tank. This is most likely caused by the cycling process, but will also happen due to fish food and waste. If you decide to keep tetras, most of them naturally occur in soft acid water with a low pH, so you wouldn't have to do anything to the pH for those fish. If you keep livebearers (mollies, guppies, swordtails, platies), then you want the pH to stay above 7.0 and shells, limestone or coral rubble would be useful.

 

[Americancichlid]

Hi all, new to the hobby been researching initially probably 9 months back waited a while then started researching more again recently and setup my first tank around 3 weeks ago. I have been reading through the site for a while before actually creating an account but wanted to ask some questions.



As I said the tank has been setup for around 3 weeks it is currently fishless, I started dosing ammonia 1 week in. I'm having a few "problems" that I wanted to get some advice on. I will post the questions below, feel free to post any advice here but I will likely post another thread also. Let me know if I am missing any key info.



Tank Info

145L

600l/h Pump

LED Light (23w)

Heater (Currently at 27c)

Planted Tank

Aquasoil and Sand

Pebbles, Bogwood, Spiderwood, Dragonstone

Testing Kit - API Freshwater Master Test Kit

Eheim 400 Air Pump with Airstone





1. I have been dosing ammonia (Dr Tims) between 2-3ppm and topping it up when it goes down to 1 for the last few weeks. About 10 days in nitrites went to 0.25 from 0 and has mostly been that since, apart from a couple of days that were 0.5. The issue I am having (if it is an issue) is that 2 of the last 4 days my nitrates have been at 160ppm which I have done water changes and got rid of but I wanted to know if it was normal that the Nitrites are mostly at 0.25ppm and not increasing above that but Nitrates are hitting 160ppm. In my mind I thought that Nitrites would be getting high first and then the nitrates would go off the scale eventually but my tank has skipped the Nitrites getting high and went straight to high Nitrates, so I wanted to know if this is good/normal or if theres a problem.



2. My PH went low yesterday. It has been at 6.6-6.8 up until yesterday where it went to 7.6 but nitrates were at 160ppm so I did a water change, tested today and my PH was at 6. I added some crushed coral to the filter hoping this would help which it has done previously a little but that PH seems quite low and thought someone might be able to give a bit of advice on why this could be happening.



Let me know if there is any info missing and I am looking forward to learning more about the hobby.



Thanks

145 litres in my opinion is a great size for a starter aquarium.you can put limestone in to increase the ph and put bog wood in to decrease ph.

 

[Americancichlid]

Hi all, new to the hobby been researching initially probably 9 months back waited a while then started researching more again recently and setup my first tank around 3 weeks ago. I have been reading through the site for a while before actually creating an account but wanted to ask some questions.



As I said the tank has been setup for around 3 weeks it is currently fishless, I started dosing ammonia 1 week in. I'm having a few "problems" that I wanted to get some advice on. I will post the questions below, feel free to post any advice here but I will likely post another thread also. Let me know if I am missing any key info.



Tank Info

145L

600l/h Pump

LED Light (23w)

Heater (Currently at 27c)

Planted Tank

Aquasoil and Sand

Pebbles, Bogwood, Spiderwood, Dragonstone

Testing Kit - API Freshwater Master Test Kit

Eheim 400 Air Pump with Airstone





1. I have been dosing ammonia (Dr Tims) between 2-3ppm and topping it up when it goes down to 1 for the last few weeks. About 10 days in nitrites went to 0.25 from 0 and has mostly been that since, apart from a couple of days that were 0.5. The issue I am having (if it is an issue) is that 2 of the last 4 days my nitrates have been at 160ppm which I have done water changes and got rid of but I wanted to know if it was normal that the Nitrites are mostly at 0.25ppm and not increasing above that but Nitrates are hitting 160ppm. In my mind I thought that Nitrites would be getting high first and then the nitrates would go off the scale eventually but my tank has skipped the Nitrites getting high and went straight to high Nitrates, so I wanted to know if this is good/normal or if theres a problem.



2. My PH went low yesterday. It has been at 6.6-6.8 up until yesterday where it went to 7.6 but nitrates were at 160ppm so I did a water change, tested today and my PH was at 6. I added some crushed coral to the filter hoping this would help which it has done previously a little but that PH seems quite low and thought someone might be able to give a bit of advice on why this could be happening.



Let me know if there is any info missing and I am looking forward to learning more about the hobby.



Thanks

6 ph is low but in my 180 litre tank I have my ph at 6.5 to 6.8. And that is perfect for my uaru which are apparently hard to keep. The right ph depends what fish you are keeping.

 

[niawomad]

Yesterday I did around a 60% water change as I was removing some of the plants as advised. This morning I did a PH test and got 4 different colours. The vials, lids included are cleaned properly after use so I am presuming the PH test kit is faulty. I don't believe it is a High Range PH issue because I have tested that and consistently get a yellow colour. Has anyone had this issue before? It is even showing a dark blue colour which isn't even on the scale. The 4th test was around the 6.4 mark but I don't have an image for that one.

 

[niawomad]

 

[niawomad]

I have tested again twice from this morning and am now getting the same reading 6.0, but still strange getting different readings and the past week or so I have had that dark blue colour a couple of times before retesting it and getting what I was usually getting.

 

[Aiken Drum]

What are the 3 test tubes supposed to be reading?

 

[niawomad]

What are the 3 test tubes supposed to be reading?

These are the PH tests that I did this morning, I did them all at the same time and got 4 different results (No image for the 4th one).

 

[Aiken Drum]

All the same test? Same reagents? Or are 2 the standard tests and the 3rd high pH?

 

[niawomad]

All the same test? Same reagents? Or are 2 the standard tests and the 3rd high pH?

They are all the same test, the normal blue sticker PH solution, same water etc one after the other.

 

[Aiken Drum]

The only explanation is some contaminant in the tubes that a thorough cleaning isnt clearing up.

Are you getting those colours in the same test tubes everytime or is that a one off?

 

[niawomad]

The only explanation is some contaminant in the tubes that a thorough cleaning isnt clearing up.

Are you getting those colours in the same test tubes everytime or is that a one off?

It was a one off for there being 4 different colours, but over the past week or so the dark blue has happened a few times before me redoing it and it going back to what looked normal which was the 6 that it had been consistently at.

 

[Aiken Drum]

When you redo after that blue colour and get a different colour is it the same test tube or a different one?