Indoor Fish Garden?

[renosteinke]

I am hoping for some pointers from those who have done what I propose to do.

I have located an outdoor garden water fountain. This fountain has a lower pool about 4 ft long by 3 ft wide... with a depth of about 10". Sitting in the middle of this pool is a pillar. Water is pumped to the top of the pillar, where it flows out, and smoothly down the pillar into the pool. There is no spray or splashing of the water. The open area is about 10" wide, around the pillar; depth is about 10". as mentioned before.

I would like to place this fountain indoors, and fill the open area with goldfish. I intend to add sundry rocks, plants, etc. I do NOT intend to heat this pool; indoor temps can get as low as 65 degrees (F).

So... here are my questions:

How do I size a filter for this? What plants are reccomended? Will I need to aerate the water in addition to having the water flow over the pillar? Will the "dead" area within the pillar complicate things? Is the fiberglass construction likely to cause problems?

Has anyone done such a "mini koi" fountain?

 

[joannde]

I misconception is that goldfish can live in small areas - the really can't. Do you have an idea of how many gallons the lower pool is ? The setup sounds really nice, I'd just worry about having enough gallons of water for the goldfish - 1 goldfish needs 20G, with 10G for each additional.
The decorations you'd add would reduce the amt of water available, so I'd keep it to a bare minimum.
And since you need to run wires for the filter, you might as well run one for a heater - it will widen the types of fish you can put in there.

 

[renosteinke]

Thanks for the quick reply, Joanne. A SWAG would place the amount of 'free' water at just over 25 gallons, with the area under the pillar containing perhaps another 18.

I am surprised at the quantity you say each goldfish needs. Visit any pet shop, and they seem to cram hundreds into the smallest tanks!

Reno is quite arid. Even at room temperature, I expect to lose quite a bit of water to evaporation. That's one downside to the fountain

Once I get the 'bugs' out, I just might consider trying other fish. Perhaps a beta or two. I'll need the approval of my cats

Indeed, this fountain is intended as a 'cat toy' as much as anything else. I have kept a pair of Betas in one of those little desk-top tanks for some time now; the cats love watching them swim around, and drink from the top ... one even 'pets' the fish ... but, after three years, there has been no serious attempt to harm the fish.

 

[majolo]

Based on the measurements posted, that would be 75 gal (or 283 liters). I haven't kept goldfish, but the standard advice is that they are messy, so you should overfilter. It sounds like it could be very cool if it works.

 

[jsoong]

What you are proposing is an indoor pond ..... although a small one.

One problem with what you've described is the size of the pillar reducing the amount of open area for the fish. If I visualize it properly, you have quite a big center pillar & just a 10" moat aroung it? That is not a lot of space.

If you don't heat the system, you are stuck with comets (if you want goldfish). They don't do too well in cramped quarters and won't last long. (I know the lfs cramp them in ridiculously small area, but comets do grow to be 12-18" big .... a problem with a 10" wide pond ... ) You might try some Moors, they maybe hardy enough to stand 65F, although really all fancies will do better with temp in the 70's. If you add a heater, you would be able to house 2-3 fancy golds (at 25+15gal). otherwise, I would suggest a school of white cloud minnows.

When you talk about the dead space inside the pillar, is that cut off from the moat, or is the fountain drawing water inside the space then out the top? If the latter, you have a build in filter. Just pack the space (if there is enough) with bioballs & some sponge/batting over the intakes & you have an instant wet/dry filter. This is basically what people do in ponds under their water falls, & you can prob. make it work similarly in your setup. You might have to upgrade the pump to get enough water flow through all the media (5-7x total water volume circulated per hr would be a good starting point in a wet/dry setup). With a good enough flow, you won't have to worry about aeration, as the water-falling down the pillar should give a large enough surface area for that.

 

[renosteinke]

Jsoong, thank you for the info- that's most of the info that I need.

I like your idea about the area inside the pillar. You are right, the moat is only about 10" wide... but perhaps 8 ft long, as it circles the pillar. The area under the pillar is "wet," I believe ... I hade considered making more, larger openings in it, so as to give the fish a sheltered area.

I have never tried this, but the ads I see suggest that UV will be a good way to keep the thing from becoming a puddle of pond scum.

Indoor pond? Yes, I suppose it is. My 'ideal' would be a large number of small fish, rather than one or two monsters floating about.

I fear the maintenance necessary. As I learn more, I propose to add some 'natural water conditioning," Plants, snails, catfish... you get the idea. I will probably start with lining the bottom with white gravel, to highlight the fish better.

Might even toss in a crayfish ... but, my ambition greatly exceeds my experience!

The expense for this dream IS mounting. Even though the fountain was 'only' $200 (marked down from $400), I'll likely have $1000 in it before it's all up and running. All those little things sure add up!

 

[joannde]

If you find a way to rig up a heater you'll have many more options for stocking. You could do an invert only tank if you wanted - that's really the only way you'll have a crayfish (they are notorious hunters and would likely kill any fish you put in with them). A betta would do better with a heater also. Plus - you can only keep one male betta; you can't even put them with females. But you could do an all female betta community - that would be quite colorful and entertaining. You have to keep an eye out since not all females seem to enjoy the community setting.

I hear you on the goldfish in the pet shops - its the cause of most of the misconception about them; quite sad really when you think about all the goldfish that outgrow their bowls and either manage to survive a cramped life, die from ammonia / nitrite / nitrate toxicity, or end up being given away.

And yes, the hobby can get a bit expensive - the tank is the cheapest part of the setup, and the "tank" you're looking at isn't cheap either

 

[acpart]

I've been reading your thoughts on indoor ponds with interest since I have one. I don't know how much you're interested in that particular set-up or in the idea of having an indoor pond in general. I have a 35 gallon stock tank with less than 35 gallons of water in it since I also have potted water plants (flag iris, water lily, taro, dwarf papyrus and lots of floating submerged plants). The tank spends summer months June-Oct. on my front porch and winter months at the back of the house inside in front of sliding deck doors. I have a school of giant danios that breed and two barbs which were sold to me as Indian flame barbs but which may be neon rosy barbs. The care is minimal: I have a small pump that circulates the water (and can attach to a ceramic cascading fountain) but no filter. I do a partial water change every few weeks and keep the pump clean. The biggest problem is adequate lighting which means that the plants limp along a bit by the end of the season. I've just started the second winter season and everything is going well. Here is a picture of the pond in its outside phase. (the water hyacinth is discarded when the pond goes indoors because there's not enough light for it).

Aliza

 

[zenkatydid]

i think you'd be better off with smaller coldwater fish like minnows, danios, etc. you could keep a small group of goldfish quite happy in that for a short while, but as they matured, it would not be enough room. another option, if your lfs will comply, is to keep juvies and trade them as they grow.

 

[jsoong]

You are right, the moat is only about 10" wide... but perhaps 8 ft long, as it circles the pillar.

You actually have more than 25 gal with this set up, the moat part is more like 40-45 gal, not counting the circulating volume inside the pillar. You can keep maybe half a dozen fancy golds to maturity, but I would strongly recommend a small heater (only $20-30, keeps you out of a lot of trouble with the fancy golds, plus you will have a larger choice of fish). You can keep white clouds with the golds (although some will end up as goldies snack), or chose schools of other small fish instead.

I hear you on the cost ..... The tank & fish is the least of it. If you are into plants, you will need good lights & that can set you back a pretty penny ... unless you want natural sunlight for your indoor pond which will mean putting in skylights, a sunroom addition ... or a new house!

I don't have experience with UV filters, although some of my friends swears by them for outdoor ponds. They are good only for unicellular green algae, so you will still get surface algae with UV. For indoor ponds, with the lower light levels, green water is ususally not an issue. And if planted, you can usually combat algae with proper plants/fert/light combinations.

 

[DepotFish]

I wouldn't do goldfish in there, its way too small.