Is this level of Ammonia safe for fish, or not? If not, how do I lower it?

[mandy2936]

Hello,
I have been doing a fishless cycle for 14 days.
Yesterday I tested my Ammonia level and it was 0.25

So I did a small water change, I removed about 2 gallons. My tank is a 20g.
After testing for Ammonia, (I use liquid testing tubes) my reading was still the same.

1. I was planning on getting fish tomorrow, so I was wondering if 0.25 is safe for fish, or not.

2. If not, do you think do a bigger water change, say 30% (6g) would bring that Ammonia to zero?

Extra Info

Fish- 6 male Guppies, 4 Julii Cories, 7 Neon Tetra. I'm adding the Guppies first, and the tetras last.
Nitrite- 0
pH- 7.0-7.2
Nitrate- 20


Thanks so much for the help! If I do get my fish tomorrow, I'll be getting 3 of the 6 Guppies so it won't be too many at a time.

Thanks again

 

[HN1]

No. It isn't safe. Be patient and wait for ammonia to drop to zero with nitrite. You'll get more enjoyment, less frustration. Sounds like you are on a great track!

 

[kaiofcanada]

no amount of ammonia or nitrites is safe for any fish. Do not add any fish to your tank until the cycle is complete. Otherwise you risk killing them r making them very sick and unhappy. The point of a fishless cycle is to avoid this. Wait until your cycle is done.

If your nitrites are 0 and your ammonia is still up, your cycle has not even begun. Have you been feeding the cycle with ammonia daily?

 

[mandy2936]

I have been adding some fish flakes as a source of Ammonia. I can't find any pure ammonia that doesn't have any other ingredients, so the flakes will have to do.

 

[kaiofcanada]

Keep adding the flakes. There are a number of ways to do a fishless cycle.

You want both the ammonia and nitrites to be at zero. Nitrites fall after ammonia levels do. Be sure to monitor both. Both are extremely toxic to all fish. Once your ammonia and nitrites are at zero, check your nitrates and keep them under/around 20 ppm. You can lower nitrates through partial water changes.

Once your cycle is complete...you can add a couple fish at a time and allow your tank to mature and the new fish to acclimate over a week before adding more fish.

 

[mandy2936]

Thanks... the only thing is my Nitrite doesn't need to be lowered, it's already 0.. So that confused me.

Also, after I add the flakes, the next day they are at the bottom of my tank. When can I vacuum them up?

 

[kaiofcanada]

I personally use a piece of boiled shrimp to do this type of thing...but flakes work as well. This guide is fairly well described.

I leave the shrimp in the tank to decay for 3-5 days at a time ...I check it daily to make sure that it isnt growing anything. Before adding anyfish , I do a light vacuuming and a water change to bring the nitrates down and because fresh water is lovely water.

Fishkeeping - Fishless Tank Cycling and Avoiding New Tank Syndrome - General Guides - Articles

"Fishless Cycling – Fish food method
For this method you will need a tub of fish food and a test kit for measuring ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.This method uses decaying food to provide a source of ammonia that the cycle requires to start.

1) To start, drop a few flakes of fish food into the tank.
2) Leave it for a few days and then test for ammonia.
3) If there’s no reading or the reading is below 3ppm (Parts Per Million) drop a couple more flakes in.
4) Keep testing every other day and add a couple more flakes if the reading is below 3ppm
5) After about a week you can start to test for Nitrite in the water. Ammonia is converted to Nitrite in the first step of the cycle. If you can detect nitrite in the water then the cycle has start.
6) Continue testing for ammonia and nitrite every other day and dropping a flake or two when ammonia drops below 3ppm. After a few weeks the nitrite level should start to drop and if you now start testing for Nitrate you’ll see Nitrate levels rise as the last part of the cycling process converts the nitrite to nitrate."

 

[mandy2936]

Ok, thanks a lot

So once Nitrite starts to rise, time is the only thing that will bring it down?

 

[kaiofcanada]

Oh, and for your first question...did you add some flakes prior to taking your most recent ammonia reading? If so, you may just be seeing a flux of ammonia from the flakes earlier. Check the levels again in the morning and see where you are.

If your nitrites already fell to zero, then your ammonia should also be at zero. Did you test your ammonia and nitrites through the whole cycle? Did you see the nitrites peak? and then fall to zero?

If you check in the morning and ammonia and nitrites are zero, you may want to wait on adding fish for one more day, and then add then slowly. Just to be sure you tank matures and can keep up with the bioload.

 

[mandy2936]

Answers to your questions

Oh, and for your first question...did you add some flakes prior to taking your most recent ammonia reading? If so, you may just be seeing a flux of ammonia from the flakes earlier. Check the levels again in the morning and see where you are.

If your nitrites already fell to zero, then your ammonia should also be at zero. Did you test your ammonia and nitrites through the whole cycle? Did you see the nitrites peak? and then fall to zero?

If you check in the morning and ammonia and nitrites are zero, you may want to wait on adding fish for one more day, and then add then slowly. Just to be sure you tank matures and can keep up with the bioload.

Well, to answer your questions, here's what I did.

I set up my tank, then a few days later I went on vacation, so I wasn't able to monitor the perimeters.
The tank was cycling for a total of 10 days without me testing it.
On day 11, I tested and my readings were: 0.25 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and 20 Nitrate.
For the next two days my readings were the same.
On day 13 I had just learned that I need to add a source of Ammonia. So I added some fish flakes.
The next day, on day 14 (today) I vacuumed my tank, did a small water change, and noticed that my Nitrate dropped a little bit. After doing the small water change (2g out of 20) I tested for Ammonia and it was still 0.25

I will test for my Ammonia again tomorrow, if necessary.

Thanks for the help! You've been really helpful

 

[kaiofcanada]

I could be wrong. But unless you had a source of ammonia in the tank while you were away it has not cycled.

You will know tomorrow morning when you check. If you still have ammonia, your nitrites should be peeking soon after.

So, I suggest this...go to the fish store and ask them for some gravel from a mature/disease free tank. They probably have a number of tanks set up, one of which the gavel may match your gravel. Usually stores are willing to do this. This will jump start your bacterial colony and get your cycle moving faster. Sprinkle the gravel over your substrate bed.

Don't do water changes or vacuum your tank while it is cycling. Let the bacteria get established first. There is always time to vacuum and aquascape before you put the new fish in.

My guess is that you will have another week of two of cycling before you can add any fish, depending on how much gravel they give you. But, this way, you will be able to stock the tank with peace of mind.

In the meantime, you can work on the design/aquascape of your tank. You can add plants and decor before your cycle finishes. This will be less stressful for your fish if you do this upfront as well.

 

[mandy2936]

Ok I'll check tomorrow morning and let you know.

As for adding gravel from a cycled tank, my tank has sand as a substrate, none of which the pet store's tanks have.

I do however have 2 small silk plants from one of my old tanks that had a betta, along with a live bamboo plant, so those should help.

I did also have 2 small terra cotta pots and another small plastic plant from a cycled tank, but took those out within a day, so I doubt that contributed much.

Thanks again for the help so far.

 

[mandy2936]

My Ammonia today definitely didn't go down. It's either still 0.25 or went up to 0.50

My nitrite is still 0, and my nitrate is still around 20, maybe a little less.

 

[kaiofcanada]

My Ammonia today definitely didn't go down. It's either still 0.25 or went up to 0.50

My nitrite is still 0, and my nitrate is still around 20, maybe a little less.

Ok...going up is good...it means your cycle is starting. You should see nitrites start peaking in a couple days.

Test your tap water to see if it have nitrates in it already. If so, you won't be able to do pwcs to reduce that in the future and may need to rely on plants to soak them up and keep the levels down once fish are in the tank.

Keep feeding your tank.

As for the pet store gravel...Get some anyway. Because you have sand substrate, sifting the gravel out...whatever colour it is...will be easy once your tank is cycled. This way you can get the cycle going faster with an established colony seed. If they have natural colour gravel, even better, it will blend in with your sand and you wont need to take it out unless you really hate it. You will only need a handful. This shouldn't be too problematic when you want to remove it.

 

[mandy2936]

Bad News

I went to Petsmart this morning (before I read your most recent post) and asked if there was anything they could give me from one of their tanks to help jump start my cycle... they said that they weren't aloud to give away things for that...

There is another pet store thats not a chain store like petco or petsmart that's not very near me, but next time I'm in the area I'll ask them.

 

[kaiofcanada]

I went to Petsmart this morning (before I read your most recent post) and asked if there was anything they could give me from one of their tanks to help jump start my cycle... they said that they weren't aloud to give away things for that...

There is another pet store thats not a chain store like petco or petsmart that's not very near me, but next time I'm in the area I'll ask them.

what crap...around here...they will give you gravel no prob, both petsmart and petco. Another option is to buy potted plants that are kept in one of their tanks. If you planned on getting some plants anyways, consider this. That gross fibrous stuff is loaded with bacteria just as the gravel would be. Leave the plants in the pots somewhat pushed into the sand until you tank is cycled.

Otherwise, it's the typical cycle waiting game...ho hum.

If you didn't live all the way on the east coast I would give you some of my gravel

 

[DragonFish71]

You can still use seed gravel in your sand tank. Use a piece of clean pantyhose (make sure there's no soap or anything by rinsing and soaking it well) put the seed gravel in the stocking, tie it and place on or in your sand, either way works. You can also use this method for adding a raw shrimp (makes it easier to clean up) to help the cycle.

 

[mandy2936]

:x

what crap...around here...they will give you gravel no prob, both petsmart and petco.

Excuse me? :| They said they weren't sure that they do things like that. I'm not lying here! :x

I have a few things in the tank now to jump start my cycle as mentioned above. I will just have to wait for now. I had gravel from a cycled tank that I should have used, but didn't think of at the time. (from that betta tank) Now it's all dried out. :/

 

[mandy2936]

You can also use this method for adding a raw shrimp (makes it easier to clean up) to help the cycle.

A raw shrimp? By that do you mean any shrimp bought from the grocery store... pet store... or what? If you could elaborate a bit that'd be great.

 

[kaiofcanada]

Excuse me? :| They said they weren't sure that they do things like that. I'm not lying here! :x

I have a few things in the tank now to jump start my cycle as mentioned above. I will just have to wait for now. I had gravel from a cycled tank that I should have used, but didn't think of at the time. (from that betta tank) Now it's all dried out. :/

Oh, I meant those guys were full of crap, not you! Sorry for confusion dearest.

Dragonfish is referring to using shrimp as a source of ammonia. I posted about this on page one of this thread. I like her idea of using nylon though. I will do that next time

Buy unseasoned raw shrimp at any grocery store. Nothing with seasoning or anything, just plain. I boil mine because I live in the midwest and seafood here is...err...kinda gross sometimes. I worry about "stuff" growing on it, as it is not the freshest. Otherwise, you can use frozen fresh.