Many unexpected situations in new 55 gal

[J rider]

:?
I need help managing a host of strange occurrences in my new 55 gallon tank. Its 4 weeks old and has sustained its 4 plants and 5 zebra danios from the start. Plants growing about 1 inch per week and fish disease free i think. I have done 1 20% water change and test the water each week. Ammonia and nitrites are low. pH keeps rising to 8 and water hardness is about 8-10. More algae growth than expected on rocks and tank walls ( reddish brown and green in color). Big problem: at night fish seem to hover at top in need of air. To fix problem I have raised water output each night to make water splash but fish still seem to be less active and hang at top more. When I had heater problems I realized that this only occurs when tank is above 71 dregess. At lower water temp fish seem more happy and more active. I am also trying to attack the pH problem. Have added neutral regulator 1 time each week for 2 weeks to adjust pH with no success. pH of tap is around 7, all rocks purchsed at fish store. Plant substrate the culprit??? Please help!

 

[TankGirl]

Welcome to AA, J rider!

I am sure we can help you get to the bottom of this. As you already know, the gasping at the surface issue is related to oxygen, and the most common culprit would be an elevated nitrite. At 4 weeks I would wager your are right at, or about to be done with your nitrite spike, so it makes sense. Have you tested this?

I don't know how much you know about the nitrogen cycle from your post, but I'd put pH on the back burner for a bit until the tank is cycled. pH adjusting products can create an entirely new set of problems so hold off on using them for the time being, if you can.

You are right on the money to create splashing and assist the fish with oxygen depletion that way, and a bit of salt helps with this also but depending on what plants you have they might not appreciate it.

Let us know what your nitrite level is, as well as ammonia and nitrAte, if possible, and also what the current temp is, because 71 is a wee bit nippy for tropicals. Higher temps do make O2 less available, so if there is a nitrite spike that would explain why lower temps would ease their discomfort.

 

[J rider]

Thank you for replying. Since starting the tank the ammonia and nitrites have gone from zero to low. Yesterday the nitrites were between 0 and .25 ppm. Which I assume should not be a problem.
The water output has been making lots of splashing since yesterday since after our heater died and the tank went from 72-68-74 in about 5 hours the fish look a bit worse. The hanging out at the top phenomena is really only a night time event. I have gotten lots of algae growth so I keep the lights on 8 hours or a bit less. I have aquatic, 120W on the tank.
I understand the plants are not performing photosynthesis but I think the splashing water should give enough oxygen for the 5 danios.
Yes, I am aware of the cycle of the tank and am not really sure the tank is finished since I never really saw a spike. Overall I thought that the pH could somehow be causing the surface dramatics because everything (except temp) has been under control.
As a side note. Why am a getting so much algae, I am beginning to worry that it will bother my plants.
Thanks,
Jackie

 

[TankGirl]

Algae is contributed to by an excess of nutrients in the tank - what is the nitrAte reading, specifically? Diatom (brown) algae is a rite of passage for a new tank, usually, and should resolve itself. There are fish that eat brown algae but adding fish at this point would hinder the situation and is not a good idea for now. Brush it off where you can and increase water changes to weekly or even semi-weekly to rob the water of nutrients for the algae.

If you are showing any ammonia or nitrite at all, then the cycle is not done so we'll need to "hold tight" for the time being, but you are right, that is a pretty low nitrite reading. Any nitrite at all can be a problem, though, so I'll bet a lot of this has to do with cycling. pH is not going to cause problems like you describe, these are water quality issues, from what you've told me, and since it is a new tank it is par for the course, and ought to resolve itself pretty soon.

 

[Maillis]

Zebra danios usually sleep near the surface, are you sure they are in need of oxygen? Look at them carefully, are they gasping or just kind of hovering?

 

[AtodaJ]

I'll throw my 2 cents in.

You have a 55 gallon with only 5 Zebra Danios in it. Your cycle should be pretty mild with that low of a bio load. As such the "hovering at the top of the water issue" is not likely due to excessive Ammonia/Nitrite. As mentioned above, fish do tend to hover at the top of tanks when the lights are off. Make sure that they aren't just sleeping. My best guess is that is all that is happening to be honest.

If there is a problem then it is most likely due to PH shock. PH regulators are not to be used by the inexperienced. When you put that stuff in your tank all it does is adjust the PH temporarily causing stress to your fish. Unless you are very knowledgable about KH and how it affects your PH readings you should not touch the stuff.

So why is your PH rising from 7 out of the tap to around 8? First I'd take some tap water in a glass and let it sit over night. Then test for PH, KH & GH. If you find the PH is around 8 then you'll have your answer. Sometimes it takes a few hours for tap water to achieve its natural PH level so the out of the tap figure can be meaningless. If not, then you'll know it is something in the tank raising your PH. Do research on your substrate, rocks, etc. to see if they affect PH.

hth

 

[J rider]

great advice thank you

Thanks for the advice. I have read and heard so many things that I go crazy trying to decide what I should believe. A large aquarium store in NJ has been my source and they told me to be very worried about the pH and algae. So, I worried and added neutraul reg etc. The algae lookd terrible.
Regarding both isssues I will be patient and test my tap with new method.
Hopefully, my tank will be cycled soon. When things are settled I'd like to add so more plants and some algae eaters.
Later on we hope to get some dwarf ciclids maybe rams.
But, I'm interested in having thriving zebra danios for now.
Oh yes I agree the hovering at top might be behavioral, I certainly hope so.
I'll try to get some more tests done on the water. My kit did not come with nitrate test.
Thanks again!!!

 

[TankGirl]

Fully agree with AtodaJ.

This is one of my pet peeves with folks at the LFS - they are very concerned that everyone keep their tanks at a neutral pH. pH is really rather low on the list for a new aquarist, IMO, unless the tap pH is really off the charts, then you need to make some concessions. Most fish are extremely adaptable to pH, especially zebra danios, so people new to the hobby are driving themselves crazy trying to keep a neutral pH when it is really not necessary. Do the LFS people explain the nitrogen cycle? NO! :? That would be so much more helpful.

 

[AtodaJ]

Re: great advice thank you

they told me to be very worried about the pH and algae

As Tankgirl said, that is a shame.

Stable PH is much more important than the actual number.

Algae, generally speaking, is not harmful to fish. Just because your tank has ugly looking algae all over the place doesn't mean the fish are being negatively affected. The Danios are fine with lots of algae everywhere. The algae is just eating up excess nutrients the same way your plants do. You only have to be worried about algae as far as tank appearance goes. There are exceptions (WAY too much algae growth turning your water in a green soup, certain algae types, etc.). But generally speaking, don't worry about algae as far has your fish health are concerned.

Brown algae doesn't use photosynthesis and actually does better in low light. That means if you have lots of brown algae, you should not be reducing the amount of light in the tank. You should be increasing it if anything. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it at all. My 55 gallon was blanketed with brown algae just as my cycle finished. Then I bought 4 Otos who cleaned all of it up in a week! I consider my Otos "employees" more than pets... hehe.

hth

 

[BASSNMAN]

I have gotten some far off onfo at some fish stores. You might want to acid test your rocks from the LFS. That could be part of your ph problem. Just because they sold them does not necessarily make them right. Most fish adapt to gradual ph changes. Sudden changes, like dumping in a bunch of chemicals, is bad or fatal. Good luck.

 

[J rider]

more questions after water change

OK so last night I did a 20% water change and I rinsed off the plants a bit.
On my bacopa (light green semi broad leaf) plant I noticed many very small brown elbow macaroni like things sitting on all of the leaves. I noticed that they were on thte plant when I got it and also on some of teh rocks before the algae appeared. What are they????
Lastly, there is sort of a net of white, soft, round balls sticking to my filter intake what is that? I assumed they are snail eggs?
Thanks a bunch.
Jackie

 

[TankGirl]

The small brown elbow macaroni-like things are almost definitely fish poop, not to put too fine a point on it!

White soft round balls - how large? Usually snail eggs are more like specks rather than actual balls, unless the "ball" is comprised of a bunch of tiny specs in clear jelly like stuff. Otherwise, that sounds like fish eggs, though white means they are either not fertilized or otherwise fungused and not viable.