N Cycle Query

[bengoshi2000]

Good morning all,

Before I ask any questions, here's the skinny on my setup:

Marineland Hex 5
3 plants
volcano bubbler
1 male cherry barb
Heater keeping water a steady 78-80 degrees F. Tank was up and running for 5 days before the barb was added.

This was a gift for my son's 6th birthday and I put myself in the awkward position of having to cycle with the Sam (the cherry barb). I used Seachem Stability for the first 7 days (per its instructions). Tank was filled with tapwater that I dechlorinated w/ Top Fin Tapwater Dechlorinator (same for all pwc's).

During the 32 days the tank has been running, I've been keeping close tabs on the big 3 levels. Ammonia has hovered at (or just below) .25ppm. On 2 or 3 occasions the Ammonia got up to .5 ppm and I immediately did a 25% pwc. Other than that, I've done weekly 25% pwc's.

I've only gotten a Nitrite reading once, about 10 days ago, and that was really only a trace. I say trace because the reading was somewhere between the sky blue color for 0 and the lavender for .25. I've yet to see Nitrates.

Ph is 7.4. It seems to be coming out of the tap that way. I tried some Ph down a couple of days before I added the fish and the Stability. It didn't work so i figured that's where my city water is buffered and didn't add any more.

During this time Sam has done well. The first 5-7 days he didn't move around much and if he ate, I never saw it. For the last two weeks he's visibly eating, and darts around the tank with explosive vigor. We now give him a very little bit of food twice daily and he eats it all. He seems to know when we are there to feed and he swims to the upper front of the tank and then back and forth with an attitude that I can only describe as "impatient." I try to look at him daily to be sure that he's not exhibiting any signs of stress. I've seen nothing worrisome.

My specific concerns are: 1) Did the Seachem Stability somehow botch the cycle? 2) Is Sam just not producing enough waste to keep the bacteria fed? 3) The dechlorinator is left over from a botched tank attempt 3 years ago, could it have somehow lost its potency?

So here I am, well over 4 weeks in and I'm regularly getting .25 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 0 Nitrates. Am I being impatient or has something gone awry?

 

[Crepe]

Dechlorinator won't lose its potency, i've been using the same gallon jug for my pond for the past 2 years. You shouldn't be using some pH down and it's good you stopped. Cycling is normally done at 3-5ppm of ammonia (fishless) and having a fish in there prevents you from doing anything that extreme unless you enjoy killing fish. You either should get a higher bioload or port the barb out and try fishless cycling.
A month in you should be seeing nitrites, so there may be some other problem, fishkeeping is filled with unknowns.

Fishless Aquarium Cycle
(I black out my tank and use Ammoniacal Nitrogen to do this, but pure ammonia works as well)

Knowing your tank volume would help. Does that 5 mean 5 gallons? Then you might not want to keep that barb in there, it needs other barbs to feel safe and a lot more swimming space.

 

[bengoshi2000]

I'ts a 5 gallon.

For the record, I don't enjoy killing fish. Like I said in the OP, I found myself in a position where fish-in cycling was my only option and I've put in alot of effort to be sure that Sam is in good health. I don't have another tank to port Sam over to. I also know about Sam's space and schooling needs, hence my next project going to be setting up a larger tank. But even if I set up that tank today it's going to be weeks before that tank cycles (fishless).

I apologize if I seem defensive, but I am. After finding myself in this project I did hours and hours of reading (here and elsewhere) and found that I've made plenty of mistakes. I am keenly aware of how I *should* have done things. The advice I'm after is what I can do to encourage my current 5g to cycle.

Would getting some media from an LFS be harmful to Sam at this point? Or should I get a better handle on the problem first?

 

[Crepe]

Media from an lfs won't hurt and sorry to offend you I was only joking about the fish killing part, sorry to sound accusing.

 

[bengoshi2000]

No worries, mate! My apologies for over-reacting. Text is woefully inadequate to convey context and emotion and I missed the joke. Also, my wife is laid up with strep and I've been Mr. Mom and Mr. Dad for our 3 kids (all between 3 and 7 years old) for the last 3 days. So unlike Sam the cherry barb, I'm STRESSED!

 

[Sum22]

Cycling can take a while, so keep being patient. It can take a while before the nitrates start to show. Since you have only one fish, you could have nitrates, but they won't show until they get to 5 ppm.

I looked back on a cycling log for an old 10g and it took about 5 weeks from the time the ammonia showed to the time when I started getting 0 readings. During the 5th week once my ammonia dropped, my nitrites started showing.

 

[logansmomma1228]

If anything the filter media from the LFS should help your tank tremendously; I would add that and just keep doing what you are doing. I know we advocate for fishless cycle, but sometimes it is just not an option. I am guessing this was your son's bday present? I give you rep points for doing everything you can to keep him healthy, and I am glad you are doing your research. You seem to already know what is going on, and I appreciate people who put as much into it as you have.

As far as the cycling, I have read that it actually takes longer with fish so you might be getting closer there. My 10 took exactly 4 weeks to cycle fishless, but I have read in numerous places that it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks minimum with or without fish. It all depends on the tank and all that I suppose. Good luck and I hope Sam will make it! And you know we are here 247 to help

 

[bengoshi2000]

Logansmomma - You're right about the birthday gift. 5 days before he turned 6 he and I picked out the tank, rocks and decorations. I set it up and then started lurking around here to make sure I didn't turn this tank into a fish-killer. (Take a look at my Introduction thread if you want to read my horrible history as a death-dealer.) In hindsight, I should have gotten one of the 10g or 20g kits that PetSmart had. The 10g kit would have actually been the same price, and the 20g marginally more. Hindsight is always 20/20. But I digress...

I forgot to mention that somewhere around day 10 the Ammonia dropped to 0 for 4 days. NitrItes and NitrAtes were still 0 and 0. The ammonia levels came back though.

So the bottom line is that patience is the key. Maybe this hobby will help me acquire that particular skill...

 

[bengoshi2000]

Ok, it's been another 10 days and my readings are Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Is there any chance that my Nitrate bottles (from the API Master Kit) are somehow defective? Is there something easily obtainable that has nitrates in it that I can use to confirm a problem with my test kit?

 

[mommytron]

I forgot to mention that somewhere around day 10 the Ammonia dropped to 0 for 4 days. NitrItes and NitrAtes were still 0 and 0. The ammonia levels came back though.

what do you mean here? do you still have fish in the tank? if the ammonia is staying at 0 with the fish in there, it sounds to me like you are all cycled. but you should be seeing at least a little nitrate. if you do in fact still have fish, how are they doing? are they healthy? i guess at this point all that really matters is that your fish are safe. all levels being at 0 means they are safe. the tank will eventually cycle. just make sure your fish aren't sick or behaving weird.

edit: the API nitrate test is very particular. make sure you follow the steps exactly.

 

[MartinBlank]

If you are worried that you are not seeing any Nitrates, I probably wouldn't worry to much. With only one fish in there, you aren't going to generate a whole lot.

If you keep up with weekly PWC's I don't see any large issues if Ammonia and Nitrites stay at 0.

 

[Crepe]

You should be god to go. However, introduce fish slowly, 1-3 fish at time.

 

[bengoshi2000]

I've probably read the NitrAte test instructions 30 times because I was worried I was doing it wrong... I'm fairly confident I'm administering it properly now.

There has been one male cherry barb in the tank since 4/27, and he seems quite happy. No signs of distress that I have observed. He alternates between sitting quietly near the bottom of the tank under the filter intake (or hiding in the fake plants) and darting here and there around the tank. He eats plenty twice daily. I'm no fish doctor, but I think he's doing well.

I just want to make sure the tank is cycled before I get him a harem.

 

[Crepe]

Oh and one more thing. What's the date on your nitrate test? On the bottle are a set of printed numbers. The last 4 are the date the test was manufactured. One test will last 3 years.

 

[mommytron]

either way, i would wait until you have a bigger tank set up to get more barbs. they should really be in schools of 6+ to be happy, and need more swimming space (which i think you are aware of). if you get more now, they may turn aggressive toward eachother because they will not be able to be in a large enough group. maybe you should look into bringing him back and getting a betta, or a couple guppies? then when you have your bigger tank set up you can get a school of barbs. or just stick it out with one fish until you can move him to a proper sized tank with a bunch of buddies. just a thought!

 

[Jgeezer1986]

Are those plants live by chance?

Edit: I have blood finned tetras... they are playful in my tank..

 

[bengoshi2000]

NitrAtes have arrived! :sigh of relief: Precious little though... around 2-3ppm.