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Old 01-12-2009, 06:26 PM   #1
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need help with my 38 gallon tank.

hey everyone. as much as i hate to i'm going to go ahead and get fish for cycling. i could not find "pure" ammonia or anything for a fishless cycle. and do not want to use fish food or shrimp.

my idea was to use about 6 to 8 red tetra's. keeping the amount kinda small because i wanna stay away from community fish because i wanna get a couple bigger fish and a lil bit more expensive fish after the tank is completely cycled.

another concern i have with using this method. is it safe to add a dwarf pleco or another type of cleaning crew fish. during the cycling process. or will i have to take care of it my self?

thanx
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:18 PM   #2
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i did cycling with fish a few times. i just put 15 rosy reds in the tank until the cycle was left. after the tank is cycled you can give the rosy reds back to the store. then buy your community fish. just my 2 cent
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:36 AM   #3
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Both of those amounts of fish seem extremely too high. I would start with a few hardy fish like danios. And by few I mean, 2 or 3. I think that with 15 fish like mike said, the tank would have a long cycle due to the amount of PWCs needed to keep the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates at a safe level.

Just curious, you say you don't want to use fish food or shrimp, why not? It's cheaper than buying fish that may not make it. It will be quicker since you can let the levels spike greatly, and not have any ill-effects on the fish. From reading some of your other posts I'd say (no offense) you are impatient (like I was in the beginning) and just want fish in there. In reality it will take you longer to add all the community fish you want if you decide to do a cycle with fish.

I would wait a while on the cleaning crew. Plecos need algae, or some driftwood at the very least, to munch on. I don't think there would be enough food in the tank, even if algae discs were provided.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:07 PM   #4
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meegosh. concerning the fish food or shrimp. i dunno i just don't like the sound of it. i honestly could not tell u why.

i might be a little impatient but im not that bad.(so dont worry. i'm not offended) i just spent 5 bucks on 5 red minor tetra's so really if there was a lose in fish its not to bad. (hopefully there is no lose) maybe 5 is still a little to much. but i'm sure it will be fine.

as far as the cleaning crew i planned to wait probably 4-6 weeks. hopefully by then the cycle will be near its end and i'm sure there might be enough build up. although i should of never actually agreed on when i will be getting them. because in reality i'll get them when they are needed instead of a set time

thanx for all the assistance. and hopefully everything will come out fine. i'm thinking i'm just really cautious about everything and want everything to go smoothly.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:15 PM   #5
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another concern i have with using this method. is it safe to add a dwarf pleco or another type of cleaning crew fish. during the cycling process. or will i have to take care of it my self?
I think that there is a common misconception that some fish will 'clean' the tank. Yes, they will eat algae etc, but most actually add more waste to the tank in the end. They are great fun to have and watch, but please don't expect that they will not add more work in terms of maintenance.

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i just spent 5 bucks on 5 red minor tetra's so really if there was a lose in fish its not to bad.
Tell that to a dead fish. Sorry to sound harsh, but there really is no good excuse to put a fish through a cycle. Even if they live, you are still in danger of harming their health, which can lead to a decreased life span.

This hobby is all about patience. If you are not able to be patient, you will suffer the consequences over and over again. Next time, please consider a fishless cycle.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:41 PM   #6
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lol i didn't mean that in a bad way. I'm gonna do everything in my power to actually keep these fish there's no doubt about that. i just said that its not bad losing the amount of $$ spent not the fish. sorry for making it sound like i don't care about the fish. although i should of went with a fishless cycle then. but no need to stress about it. like i said i'm sure it will work smoothly.

as far as the clean up crew i love to watch algae eaters. but i also know they also provide more waste. which is where the tank maintenance comes in for me. i dont plan on using them as a way out of maintaining the tanks or anything.

i'm defidently able to be patient. but like i said i honestly didn't like the idea of shrimp or fish food as a fishless cycle. i will continue to find ways to go by doing this method for the next time i have to cycle a tank. which if it comes to me having to cycle again. i already planned on even if i had to use shrimp or any other kind of odd material i was gonna do it the right way instead of using fish.

it's going to be a long process getting to know more about this hobby and being able to succeed through the entire course of the life time hobby

i do think i did get a little impatient because the ammonia route frusterated me and i was not so sure about the entire shrimp idea. so yes i do agree i might of rushed it a little bit which was also a lesson to be learned. and if anything i could always order 6 1-gallon bottles of ammonia from ace hardware online which i plan on doing just couldn't afford the price tag just to use not much of 1 bottle alone.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:50 PM   #7
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If it were me, I would continue with the cycle and wait until it is complete before getting your pleco, I would think it will be extra stress on it for no reason, just a few weeks maybe less to wait.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:57 PM   #8
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If it were me, I would continue with the cycle and wait until it is complete before getting your pleco, I would think it will be extra stress on it for no reason, just a few weeks maybe less to wait.
i agree with what your saying. the only fish i actually wanna keep in there until the cycle is complete is the 5 tetra's i put in there today.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:08 PM   #9
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and has anyone ever had experience using a product called "cycle"? because i read on the packaging that it does help keep the ammonia and nitrites at a lower level. so maybe that could greatly reduce the chance of me losing the fish and probably help more with using this method of cycling.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:17 PM   #10
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Blazinfire it might not help you and your tank at the moment, but it could help others in the future if you could talk to your LFS about carrying ammonia in the future.

I am going to talk to my LFS's about it as they do not sell it here either.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:22 PM   #11
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Blazinfire it might not help you and your tank at the moment, but it could help others in the future if you could talk to your LFS about carrying ammonia in the future.

I am going to talk to my LFS's about it as they do not sell it here either.
i did actually today. and they said they would see what they could do because other people has been considering it. but as far as them actually going to carry it and what not i don't have a clue.

of course today they tried to add a few extra tetra's to the bag lol trying to get me to buy more. so never know they might just rather u buy fish instead of helping the cause of a fishless cycle.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:47 PM   #12
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i did actually today. and they said they would see what they could do because other people has been considering it. but as far as them actually going to carry it and what not i don't have a clue.

of course today they tried to add a few extra tetra's to the bag lol trying to get me to buy more. so never know they might just rather u buy fish instead of helping the cause of a fishless cycle.
Good for you! at least you tried, Two of my LFS's never even heard of Fish less Cycling so i took the opportunity to explain it to them in a friendly way.

I used the fact that they have for sale products containing live bacteria to sell them on the monetary benefits of selling ammonia along with these products as food for the bacteria.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:55 PM   #13
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yea i don't think my LFS heard of a fish less cycle before the previous person mentioned it to them. but actually as the previous posters talked about diffidently doing a fish less cycle next time i agree with 'em. but I'm sure this experience with the tetra's will be fine.

i just really need to take my time and make sure i take the nessasary precautions on the water quality and make sure everything stays stable throughout the spikes.

oh btw CTD. the woman at the LFS said something about adding a teaspoon of salt or adding salt to the aquarium. is this nessasary? and what kind of benifits can i get from doing this? and ofcourse i sure. they are talking about aquarium salt not table salt lol. (just incase someone doesn't understand what i ment by salt)
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Blazinfire View Post
yea i don't think my LFS heard of a fish less cycle before the previous person mentioned it to them. but actually as the previous posters talked about diffidently doing a fish less cycle next time i agree with 'em. but I'm sure this experience with the tetra's will be fine.

i just really need to take my time and make sure i take the necessary precautions on the water quality and make sure everything stays stable throughout the spikes.

oh BTW CTD. the woman at the LFS said something about adding a teaspoon of salt or adding salt to the aquarium. is this necessary? and what kind of benefits can i get from doing this? and of course i sure. they are talking about aquarium salt not table salt lol. (just in case someone doesn't understand what i meant by salt)
You are opening a huge can of worms with the Salt Issue.

There is ALOT and i do mean ALOT of debate about using Salt.

Salt can help kill Ick and helps with fish's Electrolytes or so it claims on the Aquarium Salts box.

I Personally do not use Salt except for Medicinal purposes but there are others that use it religiously. If you do decide to use salt you are correct about Aquarium Salt instead of Table Salt as Table Salt usually contains Iodine, you can also use Kosher Salt or Rock Salt.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:02 PM   #15
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Heres a few Discussions from here about using Salt:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...er-106406.html

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...lt-110256.html

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...lt-109516.html

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...nk-107292.html
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:37 PM   #16
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thanx for the discussion links. I'll diffidently have to check it out. so far i've found aquarium salt for freshwater mainly beneficial on the behalf up medical purposes like you said. which will come in handy if i ever need it.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:11 AM   #17
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and has anyone ever had experience using a product called "cycle"?

That stuff is useless, might as well throw your $5 away. The only thing you should add to your water is your decholrinator. Prime, or AquaSafe, something of the sorts.

Just be patient, don't bite on all these gimmicks that promise to "cycle your tank instantly." Anyone will tell you that any product other than Bio-Spira - if it is handled correctly - is a waste of money and will most likely just foul your water up.

Patience, Patience, Patience...
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:15 PM   #18
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yea thats pretty much what my research on the products for instant cycling. bio-spira was the only product good for it. which everything seems to be fine after 24 hours of putting my tetra's in the tank. my girlfriend got a kick out of watchin them eat for the fact they stayed in a school.

thanx for all the help everyone
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