Need some fish wisdom, help, advice, anything!!!

[oppida]

My husband played one of those awful carnival games at our local fair and we won a fish. I told him not to, but now we are the proud owners of a inbred feeder goldfish. As a mother of 3, whose kids have become very attached to "rock and roll Bob" (his name given by the kids) I am going to try my best to ensure his survival.

Yet, the more I read, the more things I see I've done wrong.

I have him in a large tupperware that I did not condition with water conditioner. I had no idea I had to do that, I was just trying to get him some more clean space than the nasty container he was in. (I have changed out the water in the bowls with a little of conditioned water, now that I bought conditioner...)

I went to a pet store and bought a 2.5 gallon tank and a lovely beta fish in case "Rock and Roll Bob" dies. The tank has a divider so the fish can co-habitate. I set it up, conditioned the water, put gravel, decor and now am running the filter. I was about to add the fish till I thought I should do more research.

Then I read about cycling. Now I'm totally overwhelmed!

My questions:

Is it necessary to cycle a small 2.5 gallon tank?

How long will it take to cycle a 2.5 gallon tank?

Can I get the tests necessary to test the water at a major pet supply chain?

MOST IMPORTANT: How do I keep the fish alive while I cycle the tank? They are in smallish containers at this point, I'm worried they will not survive the length of cycling? Do I continually change their water? All the water or some?

Thank you for your help, I'm a total novice and had NO plans to own fish till my husband won this darn fish. I'm liking the idea of fish now and really want to ensure they are happy, healthy little fish.

Any advice for an inexperienced, unexpected fish owner would be very helpful!!! Thanks!!!

[eco23]

Welcome to the site

In the interest of keeping it short and simple...you need a much larger tank regardless of anything. A 2.5 gallon isn't considered acceptable for anything other than shrimp or snails...even a Betta requires a minimum 5 gallon filtered tank. Goldfish are extremely dirty fish and produce a lot of waste that makes water conditions very dangerous for them. The general rule if thumb is 20 gallons for the first goldfish, and 10 for each additional one.

Unfortunately the only options for Bob is to either buy a much larger tank for him...or try and find a new home for him. In the mean time, I would do 50-75% water changes every day with a good water conditioner like Seachem Prime to ensure he is not suffering from ammonia poisoning which he is creating with his waste.

Normally we'd link all sorts of guides to help you cycle...but in this case it's simply not a reality

If you've got the $, upgrading the tank would give him a good environment, and with enough room...you could even add a couple friends for him

[oppida]

Thank you.

Wow. I wish I saw this site before I went to the pet store. At least I could have made a better choice in tanks! The PetCo guy said it was more than enough space for 2 fish!!! (which I now have)

I hate that the circumstances in getting this fish have been so backward. Poor Bob.

I may be able to go back to the pet store and get a larger tank, although I can't bring back this tank because I already filled it with water.

For now, I guess I'll just keep changing the water diligently.

If I were able to get a larger tank, should I then cycle it? And just keep changing the water constantly for both fish until the cycle is complete? How long will they be ok in a small tank while I cycle the larger?

Thanks for your help. I really don't want them to suffer and I'm trying to make the best of a bad fish situation.

[eco23]

Originally Posted by oppida

Thank you.

Wow. I wish I saw this site before I went to the pet store. At least I could have made a better choice in tanks! The PetCo guy said it was more than enough space for 2 fish!!! (which I now have)

I hate that the circumstances in getting this fish have been so backward. Poor Bob.

I may be able to go back to the pet store and get a larger tank, although I can't bring back this tank because I already filled it with water.

For now, I guess I'll just keep changing the water diligently.

If I were able to get a larger tank, should I then cycle it? And just keep changing the water constantly for both fish until the cycle is complete? How long will they be ok in a small tank while I cycle the larger?

Thanks for your help. I really don't want them to suffer and I'm trying to make the best of a bad fish situation.

I'm sorry to hear about all this...I know you were trying to do the right thing

So far, you've learned one of the most important rules of fish keeping...never listen to the guy at the pet store in 99.9% of situations. Even if it's not the particular employee who is simply out to make money...they are usually poorly trained and don't even know themselves what is appropriate.

All tanks need to be cycled. In fact, they will cycle with or without your help...the problem is that if you're not helping through the process...they won't survive and will be severely damaged during the process

My first choice would be to re-home both fish, and do what's called a fishless cycle to prepare your tank for fish. If returning the fish is simply not an option, you can do a fish-in cycle which works...but requires a very dedicated fish owner who is willing to change water however often and however much is needed...sometimes multiple times per day. For a Goldfish in a 2.5 gallon...you'll be doing LOTS of water changes every day.

I'll link you a couple articles so you can learn about the two options. Honestly, the priority needs to be decided very quickly if you can rehome these fish, or if you can immediately buy them a larger tank. I might have missed it, but what is the second type of fish? If it's another Goldy...remember it's 20 gallons for the first...and an additional 10-15 gallons for every other. Also Goldfish are cold water fish...so if you have him with a tropical fish they are not compatible with each other regardless.

Here's the guides to look over-

Fish-in cycling-
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...now/Page2.html

Fishless cycling (kinda my specialty and what I do around here )-
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ng-148283.html

[eco23]

I'm gonna turn in for the night, but I'm sure there's plenty of members who can help out (though it's rather slow this time of night)...but I'll check back in tomorrow.

Normally my advice would be to get a quality liquid test kit like an API Master Kit and a good dechlorinator like Seachem Prime...but even though these are vital tools for keeping fish...finding a new home or buying a bigger tank absolutely needs to be your immediate goal...with lots of water changes in the mean time. There is no such thing as too many water changes as long as you are matching temperatures and using s good dechlorinator.

I'll check in tomorrow! Good luck!

[Flossie]

U can check craigslist to see if u can find a larger aquarium for your goldfish. There are multiple postings here on aquariums and thats where a lot of us here at AA get our set ups. It normally a lot cheaper than the pet store. If u just want the goldfish alone a 20g would be fine but if u want to add another goldfish down the line 30g at least let us know what u decide... we have all made mistakes like these... You should see some of my post lol and I'm still learning

[oppida]

The first fish won at the carnival is a goldfish, the second I stupidly purchased today in case he died (to ease my young children's hearts) is a Betta. I honestly have no one to re-home them, I just moved and know very few people around here at the moment, much less anyone with fish.

I now know not to listen to pet store people!!!

Looking at this, it's a big fish mess.

I could return the Betta and get a bigger tank for the goldfish, though I don't know if I have enough $ for a 20 gallon tank for a goldfish. The goldfish was won at the carnival, has been sitting in tap water in the heat at the fair (i doubt the fair employees used a water conditioner) I have a feeling he is not in the best of health and may be doomed as it is. So I'm spending a bunch of money on an inbred "feeder" fish that probably will die in a week or so, as harsh as that sounds.

I could get a large tank for them both- at least 30 gallons from what you said- but honestly I don't have that kind of money- $150-175?

Lastly, do Bettas require a large tank? Maybe I can afford a 10 gallon? Is that enough for a Betta? I could just try to do right by the betta since he appears to be in good health and get a larger tank for him, buy test kit and do a fish-in cycle. But then what will I do with the poor goldfish? Ug.

God, this is just terrible. Thanks for helping me your advice. I hate to see any creature suffer and i take my responsibilities to my pets very seriously.

[oppida]

Great idea on Craig's List. I'll go searching now.

Had we planned to get fish, I assure you, I would have done extensive research! But winning a fish at a fair has turned into a fish nightmare.

I just want to do right by the little guys.

Thanks!

[TotallyCoral]

Hello! Sorry about your dilemma right now... you're not the only one who's won a fish at the fair and ending up having this problem. It's very stressful but I assure you, you're doing all the right things to try and keep that fish alive and healthy.

But yes, a 10 gallon is enough room for a betta. I bought my 10 gallon at Petco for about $13. Good luck finding a tank for him!

[juriaste]

A 10 gallon would be perfect for a betta, just ensure when you buy the bigger tank that you have a heater as they require higher water temperatures than the goldfish, also ensure the filter is large enough to filter the whole tank 3 times an hour. I also done a fish in cycle as I was not informed about cycling when we bought our tank. Because there is fish in the tank test the water daily, I prefer the API master kit, and make sure that the ammonia preferably does not get above 0.25. Once you have finished cycling, most likely in a month you should only have nitrates in your tank these you only want no higher than 20ppm although they can be fine up to 40ppm. Also you may find that you have to do water changes daily, you should take around 20% out but again this depends on your test results as you may have to take more out or less depending.

[Flossie]

I got a great deal on a 55 with TONS of extras... Stand. Light. Hood. Filter for a 100 dollars it's rare but surely u can find a good deal for a used 20. HAGGLE haggle haggle ... Some times u can make a deal on your own good luck I hope something works out for u. It's a stinky situation u didnt know so its not ur fault... Carnivals should stop doing this... Lol

[librarygirl]

I don't know where you live but I recently purchased my 20 gallon with tank, filter, hood and light for $50 at PetSmart. Also if you just buy the tank itself they are pretty cheap. You could return the Betta and focus on the Goldie. Also if you stilll have the receipt for the current tank, I would dry it out and try to return it (once you get a replacement tank of course ).

What you could also do is keep the 2.5 for the Betta (temporarily) and get a larger tank for the Goldie. The two can't really live together b/c they have different temperature requirements. Of course then you'll be doing TWO fish-in cycles, but it seems like you are caring and diligent enough to handle it.

Unfortunately like others said a decision has to be made ASAP b/c the two fish can't be kept together in a 2.5 gal In the meantime do a couple of 50%+ water changes every day. Good luck.

[oppida]

Thank you everyone for your wise advice and helping me through this mess.

At this point, I can't do the "ideal". I wish I could, but obviously the circumstances won't allow it! I think what I might do is buy a large tank and put the goldie in it. Then I'll stick the beta in the 2.5 gallon that is filtered. If the goldie dies, which is a huge possibility, I can do a fishless cycle the larger tank and put the beta in there and get some shrimp (that seems to be the humane route for a small tank right?) to put in the 2.5 gallon. I think that might work and would be the best for all involved. Maybe if they both survive I can afford to get a larger tank for the beta.

I will be diligent about changing the (conditioned) water and I'll pick up a heater and test kit today.

To make sure I'm on the right path here, please tell me if this is right:

I'll do a fish-in cycle for the beta. So that means I monitor the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels and change out the water accordingly. Every day, maybe more. Is that the jist? As for the goldie, I'll do the same thing.

As for the levels, is there a chart that shows me how much the levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate should be and how much to change the water based on the levels?

Thank you for the crash-course in owning fish. If these two fish don't make it, I'm going to do it right for the next fish, now that I know so much from you all!

Again, I thank you for helping me make the best out of this messy situation. I hope these little guys don't suffer and I've learned some very important lessons- especially not letting my husband go near a carnival game that has fish for prizes and to NEVER listen to the tools at PetCo.

Thanks again.

[eco23]

You've got it down and I applaud the effort you're making. Let your test kit dictate when you need to do water changes and how large they should be...the clock should not be part of the routine. Trust your test kit.

Make sure you follow the fish-in cycling guide we linked before...and it'll get you and your fish through the process.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[oppida]

Originally Posted by eco23

You've got it down and I applaud the effort you're making. Let your test kit dictate when you need to do water changes and how large they should be...the clock should not be part of the routine. Trust your test kit.

Make sure you follow the fish-in cycling guide we linked before...and it'll get you and your fish through the process.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thank you. The test kit- can it be purchased at Pet CO/PetSmart?

Also, for the beta, the petco people said he doesn't need a heater, but I know better to not listen to them. So do you think the betta needs a heater?

Thanks SO much. I can't tell you how grateful I am to have found this site!!!

[bruinsbro1997]

Yes you can find the test kits at Petsmart/Petco. Yes bettas need a heater, although you can keep them without it makes them much more weaker. Rule #1: Never listen to the fish store. Did that once and all my fishies died.

Don't know if anyone said this but to AA!

[oppida]

Thank you! I called all over and no one has a mini heater. I found one on Amazon, which will arrive in 2 days. My next question is, should I just keep the beta in the tiny bowl from when I got him from the pet store till the heater arrives? Or put him in, and add the heater in a few days? Or put some warmer water in the tank right now, put him in and wait for the heater?

Sorry for all the detailed questions!

[Flossie]

Originally Posted by oppida

Thank you everyone for your wise advice and helping me through this mess.

At this point, I can't do the "ideal". I wish I could, but obviously the circumstances won't allow it! I think what I might do is buy a large tank and put the goldie in it. Then I'll stick the beta in the 2.5 gallon that is filtered. If the goldie dies, which is a huge possibility, I can do a fishless cycle the larger tank and put the beta in there and get some shrimp (that seems to be the humane route for a small tank right?) to put in the 2.5 gallon. I think that might work and would be the best for all involved. Maybe if they both survive I can afford to get a larger tank for the beta.

I will be diligent about changing the (conditioned) water and I'll pick up a heater and test kit today.

To make sure I'm on the right path here, please tell me if this is right:

I'll do a fish-in cycle for the beta. So that means I monitor the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels and change out the water accordingly. Every day, maybe more. Is that the jist? As for the goldie, I'll do the same thing.

As for the levels, is there a chart that shows me how much the levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate should be and how much to change the water based on the levels?

Thank you for the crash-course in owning fish. If these two fish don't make it, I'm going to do it right for the next fish, now that I know so much from you all!

Again, I thank you for helping me make the best out of this messy situation. I hope these little guys don't suffer and I've learned some very important lessons- especially not letting my husband go near a carnival game that has fish for prizes and to NEVER listen to the tools at PetCo.

Thanks again.

Most are going to disagree with me on this but seeing your only option is keeping the betta in the small tank I want to give u some hope... My nephew is three and I bought him a "betta" tank ( b4 this site ) got it for his b day last year and he still has the betta... As long as u are keeping up with him and providing the best care... I'm sure he'll be fine. Putting the goldfish in a larger tank sounds like a plan to me Sometimes we have to do things that aren't "ideal" but u are trying so that's a great start towards an ideal environment


Oh and yeah it's called API master test kit... I comes with a chart and tells u what the ammonia and nitrite and nitrate are.

[Maya]

I agree with Flossie. You are at a point where the ideal is out of the question. Keep the betta in the smaller tank and upgrade to the larger for the goldfish. Luckily.. Both are extremely hardy fish that can live (and sometimes thrive) in less than optimal conditions. I had a betta that lived for 4 years in an unheated 1/4 gallon bowl. It was happy enough there to live beyond a "normal" life expectancy and make bubble nests. When I was little we kept a goldfish (also a fair win) in a 5 gallon bowl for 3 years. Was it ideal... No but it did work. Keep up on your water changes and you will be fine. Make sure you use a de-chlorinator and do not overfeed (which contaminates a small water supply). A larger tank for the goldie will be as beneficial for you as the fish because water changes on those in a smaller tank are absolutely necessary. They are very dirty fish that make extreme waste (hence the need for more water volume ie. A larger tank.) After your tank has cycled the water changes will lessen and things will get easier. You obviously care way more than most people so I have faith that you will do just fine.

[juriaste]

Betta's do need a heater there best kept between 24 degrees c and 27degrees c a lot of fish shops say they don't need heaters which is untrue, if you type in on google betta profile than you'll be able to find more out about them like what they eat and the best things to do for their care.