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Old 12-07-2021, 07:38 PM   #1
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New 30L Aquarium

Hello,

I got myself a 30L dennerle tank, it is my first.

The tank has no fish yet, I noticed some small snails lurking around and lots of tiny little white worms, I setup the tank around 2 weeks ago.
Also some leafs are having brown spots, why is that ?

My mistake was maybe not properly cleaning the plants before adding them, the guy at the store said I could keep the wool/cotton (I don't know what it is) but I guess I should have.

I am tempted to restart over since I don't have any fish yet.

Your advice is much appreciated!
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:40 PM   #2
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Hello,

I got myself a 30L dennerle tank, it is my first.

The tank has no fish yet, I noticed some small snails lurking around and lots of tiny little white worms, I setup the tank around 2 weeks ago.
Also some leafs are having brown spots, why is that ?

My mistake was maybe not properly cleaning the plants before adding them, the guy at the store said I could keep the wool/cotton (I don't know what it is) but I guess I should have.

I am tempted to restart over since I don't have any fish yet.

Your advice is much appreciated!
Do not restart your tank. There is nothing wrong with it at all. In aquariums patience is the name of the game. The only things that happen fast are bad.

With the snails just take them out as you find them. They are not going to really impact your tank negatively and usually just eat detritus/dead plant matter. Most people who keep aquariums long enough actually appreciate some snails present in their tanks. They can be an important part of maintaining a balanced ecosystem.

As far as the brown spots go it appears that your plants were grown emersed and are going through their adjustment period being freshly submerged. It also looks like you have sword plants which are heavy root feeders. Picking up some root fertilizer tabs will go a long way toward maintaining their health especially if your substrate is just plain gravel. It also looks like you have some algae beginning to grow which is not necessarily a bad thing, but if you do not already pick up a light timer and set your lighting period for 6-8 hours. It will go a long way toward preventing excess algae growth.

Regarding the stone wool that is wrapped around the roots of the plants, typically you remove it but it is not really going to hurt your tank. If you feel strongly about it you can remove it and replant them, but if it doesn't bother you there is no need.

Just give the tank some time. Aquariums require patience and usually go through an ugly phase in their first few months of life.
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Old 12-08-2021, 04:14 AM   #3
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Welcome to the forum.

As a new fish keeper, are you aware of the nitrogen cycle and how to cycle a tank?

Link to some articles for new fish keepers.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...um-154837.html
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Old 12-08-2021, 08:51 AM   #4
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Do not restart your tank. There is nothing wrong with it at all. In aquariums patience is the name of the game. The only things that happen fast are bad.

With the snails just take them out as you find them. They are not going to really impact your tank negatively and usually just eat detritus/dead plant matter. Most people who keep aquariums long enough actually appreciate some snails present in their tanks. They can be an important part of maintaining a balanced ecosystem.

As far as the brown spots go it appears that your plants were grown emersed and are going through their adjustment period being freshly submerged. It also looks like you have sword plants which are heavy root feeders. Picking up some root fertilizer tabs will go a long way toward maintaining their health especially if your substrate is just plain gravel. It also looks like you have some algae beginning to grow which is not necessarily a bad thing, but if you do not already pick up a light timer and set your lighting period for 6-8 hours. It will go a long way toward preventing excess algae growth.

Regarding the stone wool that is wrapped around the roots of the plants, typically you remove it but it is not really going to hurt your tank. If you feel strongly about it you can remove it and replant them, but if it doesn't bother you there is no need.

Just give the tank some time. Aquariums require patience and usually go through an ugly phase in their first few months of life.

Thanks for all the info, really helpful !!


Is the below fertilizer good enough and is it too early to introduce any fish ? I am considering a trio of killis.


I am using a Dennerle Filter with FilterTubes + the extension with FilterGranulat, is this a good combination ?
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Old 12-08-2021, 08:52 AM   #5
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Welcome to the forum.

As a new fish keeper, are you aware of the nitrogen cycle and how to cycle a tank?

Link to some articles for new fish keepers.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...um-154837.html

I am aware of the cycle but not down to the details for sure.


I will check the link, thanks !!
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:05 AM   #6
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The nitrogen cycle is the natural processes that go on in your tank that convert ammonia into less harmful substances.
Ammonia gets into your tank through various pathways. Fish waste, decaying uneaten food, and dead, decaying plants are common ammonia sources in an aquarium. Its also possible your tap water is an ammonia source. Chloramine is a common water treatment and when treated with most water conditioners the bond in the chloramine breaks and releases ammonia into the water.
Ammonia can be toxic to fish, depending on how much there is, and what the pH and temperature of your tank water is.
The first stage of the nitrogen cycle is the removal of ammonia. If you have real plants in your tank some of this ammonia will be absorbed as part of their natural growth. Generally though ammonia is consumed by denitrifying bacteria that lives mostly on your filter media. These bacteria consume the ammonia and produce nitrite. Unfortunately nitrite is pretty much as toxic to fish as ammonia.
The second stage of the nitrogen cycle is the removal of nitrite. A different denitrifying bacteria will consume the nitrite and produce nitrate. Nitrate is much less harmful than ammonia and nitrite, and for most aquariums the nitrogen cycle ends there. Excess nitrate is removed through your regular water changes.
A further stage of the nitrogen cycle can also happen, but its difficult to remove all the nitrate from a typical freshwater aquarium. Plants will absorb some nitrate in a similar manner to how it absorbs ammonia to grow. There are also nitrifying bacteria that consumes nitrate and gives off nitrogen gas which will simply offgas from your aquarium. This nitrifying bacteria is difficult to grow in freshwater aquarium.
“Cycling” a tank is the process you go through to grow denitrifying bacteria in your aquarium to consume ammonia and nitrite. You are said to be “cycled” when you have enough bacteria to consume all the ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces and turns all of it into nitrate. If you test the water of a cycled tank you should see 0 ammonia and nitrite and some nitrate.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:08 AM   #7
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To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.
Two commonly used methods to cycle a tank are called a “fish in” cycle and a “fishless” cycle.
A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels. This has been the go to method to cycle a tank for many years, and it commonly is the way new fish keepers cycle a tank when they have bought fish with no knowledge that a tank needs cycling and how to go about it.
Pros.
• You get to keep “some” fish pretty much on day 1 of setting up your tank.
• More consistently gets you through your cycle.
• Only real choice if you already have fish.
• If done simply, eg stock lightly, add fish slowly, you can fishless cycle safely without testing. Although testing your water while cycling is still a good idea.
Cons.
• Lots of water changes, especially if you are doing a fish in cycle with a fully stocked tank.
• Although you should be doing plenty of water changes to maintain relatively safe water, your fish will be living in waste which isn’t ideal.
• Can take a long time (several months) to go from an empty tank to fully stocked if done safely.
A fishless cycle uses an ammonia source to replicate the fish waste that a tank of fish would produce. This ammonia source can be pure ammonia, an aquarium specific ammonium chloride product like Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride, a cocktail shrimp or fish food.
Pros.
• You cycle the tank before adding fish, therefore they shouldn’t be exposed to their own waste.
• No need for regular water changes while your tank cycles.
• Can be quicker to go from an empty tank to fully stocked.
Cons.
• Needs patience, you will be looking at an empty tank for several weeks.
• More technical approach requiring dosing ammonia and will need to be done alongside regular testing.
• Less consistently successful than fish in cycles, especially with new fish keepers who don’t understand the process and expect it to run to a timetable.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:13 AM   #8
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Have a think about you plan to cycle your tank. Fish in or fishless. We can post more details on the specifics of which way you want to go.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:25 AM   #9
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Have a think about you plan to cycle your tank. Fish in or fishless. We can post more details on the specifics of which way you want to go.

Well I've already started my tank a couple of weeks ago without any fish so I guess that settles it.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:47 AM   #10
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Running a tank for a few weeks wont have done anything. All you are doing is circulating water, that will do nothing for your cycle, you havent started yet. You can still opt for a fishless or fish in cycle.
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Old 12-08-2021, 10:50 AM   #11
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Running a tank for a few weeks wont have done anything. All you are doing is circulating water, that will do nothing for your cycle, you havent started yet. You can still opt for a fishless or fish in cycle.

I added live bacteria at the start.
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Old 12-08-2021, 10:57 AM   #12
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Live bacteria needs ammonia to grow and establish in your filter. At best using it will speed up your cycle from months to weeks, normally it does nothing at all.

You still need to cycle the tank, despite the claims they put on the bottle of bacteria to get you to buy it.

If you added it a couple of weeks ago, without food (ammonia) it will have died off by now, thats even if there was anything in there of benefit to start with.
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Old 12-08-2021, 11:32 AM   #13
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Live bacteria needs ammonia to grow and establish in your filter. At best using it will speed up your cycle from months to weeks, normally it does nothing at all.

You still need to cycle the tank, despite the claims they put on the bottle of bacteria to get you to buy it.

If you added it a couple of weeks ago, without food (ammonia) it will have died off by now, thats even if there was anything in there of benefit to start with.

Alright, I wasn't aware of the ammonia part, at the store they advised me to put the bacteria, plants and wait 2-3 weeks before adding fish.


I used Tetra test kit and all the parameters seems good, does this indicate anything ?


I still have the live bacteria bottle in the fridge, should I add some with a pinch of food fish ?
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Old 12-08-2021, 11:46 AM   #14
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First important lesson learnt. Fish store employees often know no more than you do about keeping fish and even when they do, their job is to get you to buy stuff. If things don't work out, they get to sell you more stuff.

You need to decide if you want to cycle with fish in the tank, or cycle the tank before you get fish.

On its own, the fact your water test says everything is good means nothing. Test water straight from the tap, your test will tell you it is good to put fish in. If your tank has never had waste in it (ammonia) you have no way of knowing if your tank is capable of processing out the waste to make it safe. All you are testing is tap water. Out of interest, does your test show any nitrate?

You can do a fishless cycle with fish food, but its not a method i like. Its difficult to know how much food to add to raise ammonia to a level it needs to be, especially if you've never kept fish before.

Have a read through my post about fish in and fishless cycling. Pros and cons with each. If it helps you make a decision, we get a lot of posts on here from people doing fishless cycles and it not working as they expect and they get frustrated with it. We also get a lot of posts from people adding fish with no knowledge of cycling a tank, and this leads to sick and dying fish. So whichever you go, you are ahead of most people starting out in the hobby.

I really want to see those killifish when you get them in your tank.
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Old 12-08-2021, 12:21 PM   #15
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First important lesson learnt. Fish store employees often know no more than you do about keeping fish and even when they do, their job is to get you to buy stuff. If things don't work out, they get to sell you more stuff.

You need to decide if you want to cycle with fish in the tank, or cycle the tank before you get fish.

On its own, the fact your water test says everything is good means nothing. Test water straight from the tap, your test will tell you it is good to put fish in. If your tank has never had waste in it (ammonia) you have no way of knowing if your tank is capable of processing out the waste to make it safe. All you are testing is tap water. Out of interest, does your test show any nitrate?

You can do a fishless cycle with fish food, but its not a method i like. Its difficult to know how much food to add to raise ammonia to a level it needs to be, especially if you've never kept fish before.

Have a read through my post about fish in and fishless cycling. Pros and cons with each. If it helps you make a decision, we get a lot of posts on here from people doing fishless cycles and it not working as they expect and they get frustrated with it. We also get a lot of posts from people adding fish with no knowledge of cycling a tank, and this leads to sick and dying fish. So whichever you go, you are ahead of most people starting out in the hobby.

I really want to see those killifish when you get them in your tank.

I am using tetra strips to test the water, no nitrate detected at all.


I am myself frustrated looking at an empty tank, I thought by doing it I am making it easier for me later on when I add the fish, but apparently I have been just cycling water .


I can get the fish during the weekend and then add them along with some bacteria, the monitor the water quality every few days, would that be a good start ? Should I worry about those tiny white worms ?



There is an endless amount of products online, I current have the Tetra AquaSafe, anything else I should have ?
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Old 12-08-2021, 12:25 PM   #16
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To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.
A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels.
Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. Seachem Prime is a water conditioner that will also detoxify some ammonia for a day or two, so is a good choice for a water conditioner while cycling a tank with fish.
You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
In ideal circumstances you should be starting a fishless cycle with a low bioload (number of fish). 1 small fish per 10 gallons/40 litres is a good number of fish, but this can be tweaked a little for fish that are social and don’t do well on their own. Ideally a hardy type of fish. You may have fully stocked (or overstocked) your tank before you knew about cycling. In these circumstances, if its not possible to return fish, you will have to make the best of it.
If you haven’t already done so, add your fish. Acclimate them to the water in your tank before doing so.
Start to regularly test the water for ammonia and nitrite. At least daily. Depending on your bioload you could start to see ammonia quite quickly. Nitrite will likely take a little longer to appear.
Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm by changing water whenever your water parameters exceed this target. 0.5ppm combined is a level of waste that is sufficient for your cycle to establish but relatively safe for your fish.
If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrite (0.5ppm combined) then leave things be. If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.25ppm nitrite (0.75ppm combined) then change 1/3 of the water. If you see 0.25ppm ammonia and 0.75ppm nitrite (1.0ppm combined) then change 1/2 the water. If water parameters get worse than these levels it may require multiple daily 50% water changes to maintain safe water conditions. This is more likely to happen with a fully stocked tank.
Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.
Over time the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change to maintain your ammonia + nitrite combined target will reduce. You can also start testing for nitrate and should see this rising. If you are finding the ammonia and nitrite in your tests are consistently low, and you aren’t already fully stocked, you can add a few more fish. It may take a few weeks to get to this point.
Once you add a few more fish, continue to regularly test the water and continue to change water if you exceed the 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite target. With added bioload the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change may increase again until your cycle has caught up. Again once you are consistently seeing low ammonia and nitrite you can add some more fish. Rinse and repeat with testing, water changes, and adding fish when safe to do so until you are fully stocked.
You can then cut back on water changes to control nitrate only. Typically you want to keep nitrate no higher than 40ppm, but I would recommend changing some water every 2 weeks even if your water test says you don’t need to.
A fish in cycle from an empty tank to fully stocked can take several months.
A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.
Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.
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Old 12-08-2021, 12:36 PM   #17
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I am using tetra strips to test the water, no nitrate detected at all.


I am myself frustrated looking at an empty tank, I thought by doing it I am making it easier for me later on when I add the fish, but apparently I have been just cycling water .


I can get the fish during the weekend and then add them along with some bacteria, the monitor the water quality every few days, would that be a good start ? Should I worry about those tiny white worms ?



There is an endless amount of products online, I current have the Tetra AquaSafe, anything else I should have ?
No nitrate is a clear sign you arent cycled. Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle, so a cycled tank will have nitrate in it.

I hadnt spotted your tiny white worms. Maybe detritus worms, maybe planaria. Can you get a better photo? Look up photos of detritus worms and planaria and see either match whats in your tank. Planaria has a triangular head. Easier for you to compare your worms to a photo than us trying to identify a few pixels in a photo.

Tetra aquasafe? Thats a water conditioner. You need water conditioner, i would say Seachem Prime is a better option (see my above post). It has the added benefit of detoxifying ammonia and is cheaper / water change.

There are loads of products you can buy, most are snakeoil. All you really need is water conditioner and if you have plants a fertiliser will help. The one you have, ive never used, but i have used easy-life products and find them OK. Im sure its fine, but you need to give plants a good few months before deciding if they are healthy or not. I dont know where you are based, but TNC are good plant ferts here in the UK.

https://thenutrientcompany.com/
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Old 12-08-2021, 01:25 PM   #18
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No nitrate is a clear sign you arent cycled. Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle, so a cycled tank will have nitrate in it.

I hadnt spotted your tiny white worms. Maybe detritus worms, maybe planaria. Can you get a better photo? Look up photos of detritus worms and planaria and see either match whats in your tank. Planaria has a triangular head. Easier for you to compare your worms to a photo than us trying to identify a few pixels in a photo.

Tetra aquasafe? Thats a water conditioner. You need water conditioner, i would say Seachem Prime is a better option (see my above post). It has the added benefit of detoxifying ammonia and is cheaper / water change.

There are loads of products you can buy, most are snakeoil. All you really need is water conditioner and if you have plants a fertiliser will help. The one you have, ive never used, but i have used easy-life products and find them OK. Im sure its fine, but you need to give plants a good few months before deciding if they are healthy or not. I dont know where you are based, but TNC are good plant ferts here in the UK.

https://thenutrientcompany.com/
Here is a closer look.

EDIT: I noticed that most of the brown spots on my plants can be removed, I guess this is algae right ?
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Old 12-08-2021, 01:30 PM   #19
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Thats too small to be positive.

Detritus worm.



Planaria

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Old 12-08-2021, 01:58 PM   #20
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Thats too small to be positive.

Detritus worm.



Planaria

Difficult to say, it looks more like the Planaria (maybe).

Would it make sense at this stage to restart the process and give the tank and plants a cleanup to get rid of the algue and worms/snails then introduce the fish in a couple of days ?
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