New fish tank help!

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brittany_b415

Aquarium Advice Regular
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Oct 14, 2015
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I set up an aquarium a week ago and it has been cycling with prime water conditioner. It's a 20g tank that was purchased 2nd hand off someone, it came with a filter but I had to put new material in it. I purchased a new 100w heater also and set it to 76. Yesterday I went to the pet store to get information on the types of fish I was planning to get (tetras, guppies and African dwarf frogs). The pet store guy told me to take home 4 guppies and put them in my tank. I was under the impression my tank wouldn't be ready for a few weeks but he assured it would be. Either way, I put them in my tank after letting them float and introducing my water to them. I tested my water and the ammonia read 0.5ppm, nitrates 0ppm, nitrites 0ppm and my ph was 7. My tap water has a ammonia level of 0.3ppm. I removed 3G of water and added more prime yesterday and rechecked my ammonia today and it's between 0.25ppm and 0.5ppm. My fish seem lethargic, they were floating around the top and sticking towards the bottom. I'm planning on doing a 25% water change today and vacuuming my gravel. The reason I'm planning to vacuum my gravel is because I bought that new but the tank had a small amount of pebbles stuck in it and my friend assured me to keep them there because they might carry beneficial bacteria to help my tank. It looks to me that there is food floating around because when I added my water yesterday during my water change it had floating food particles.

Any advice would be awesome. I don't want my little fish to suffer due to poor advice from the store.

Thanks !


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Ahh the fish store claims another victim...

You were in the right. Cycling does take weeks to complete.

Here's a pre made run down I use for social media:

What is cycling? Cycling is short the Nitrogen Cycle. Basically, bacteria live in your tank, they are what consumes waste so it doesn't become toxic and harm your fish. But your filter does not just "come with bacteria" right out of the box! This is where cycling comes in.

Why is cycling important? Many people have said "well I didn't cycle and my fish are just fine!" Well that's because most of those people have very hardy fish like bettas, guppies, etc, they can rough it through a cycle without issue.

Where does bacteria live? Let's make this really simple: 97%=filter 2%=substrate(exception for anaerobic bacteria in planted tanks) 1% water, decor, and plants. Basically, your filter is the home of all the bacteria you care about.

Where does bacteria come from and how do I grow it? This is the miracle of nature and science. I can't tell you specifically "where" bacteria comes from, only because I don't know. What I do now is how to grow bacteria, otherwise known is cycling a tank.

What you need to cycle a tank:
1. LIQUID test kit- I will stress this till the day I die. Test strips are junk. Liquid looks expensive but in reality you save a bunch of money because it can do 200+ tests for $10 more than a 25 pack of strips. I mean who wouldn't snag that deal?? You MUST have a test kit that you can get actual numbers from or else cycling will be near impossible without trips to the store for them to do it.

2. An ammonia source. This can be produced in a variety of ways. Fish obviously is the first method, this is the path of FISH-IN cycling. Simple right? Other sources include 10% grade ammonia from the hardware store, this is only a couple bucks. You can use uncooked shrimp from the grocery store and put it in a pantyhose so it doesn't make a mess. Or plain fish food is fine too but not as effective sometimes. These sources are used for a FISHLESS cycle.

Why do we need an ammonia source? This is what begins cycling. Ammonia is what feeds your bacteria to where they can reproduce and allows you to continue through the nitrogen cycle.

Enough questions let's get on with it:

Fishless cycling: this is really easy method, but you have an empty tank. On the flip side, you can do whatever adjustments you want to it so when you get fish it's perfect. If you are dosing ammonia by the bottle: shoot for 3ppm-4ppm. Google can provide a dosing calculator so you can know just how much to dose for your tank size. If you are using a table shrimp, just throw it in, it will naturally boost the ammonia and you just add a new shrimp when the other has decomposed. Now you want to use your test kit to measure how much ammonia you need to dose, it's simple math once you know how much makes 3ppm.

Fish-in cycling: This is where it can get tricky. Because you have fish you need to keep them safe. During a cycle, this will require daily testing and quite possibly daily water changes. You want to keep ammonia under 1ppm and nitrite under 0.50ppm if possible as both are highly toxic to fish.

Both cycles: in the beginning you will see ammonia start to rise, over time, the bacteria will overcome this and in a fishless you will need to start dosing daily(bottled ammonia) as time goes on. From there you will move to nitrites. Once you hit nitrites this is the longest phase. One day you will wake up and nitrites will be gone and you will be left with nitrAtes. Nitrates is the final product of the nitrogen cycle and is non toxic in lower levels. This is then removed through your weekly water changes.

Once the cycle is completed you should not see any signs on ammonia and nitrites, because now your tank is cycled.

Bacterial supplements: please understand these are a game of chance. They don't always work, sometimes they do nothing. Just know, I have NEVER seen one of these fully complete a cycle, only give a jump start. Please keep that in mind that just because you dump a bottle in doesn't mean your tank cycled..


Caleb
 
Thanks for the advice. I still need help with regards on what to do. Just did a 25% water change and vacuumed some of the gravel. Added prime water conditioner to the new water. I retested my water with my API freshwater master kit and ammonia is still at 0.5ppm. I thought it would at least reduce it a little bit. Or do I need to wait longer to retest my water ? Seriously need help! I feel bad for my fish. If I knew this I would have told the pet store to **** himself!!


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Thanks for the advice. I still need help with regards on what to do. Just did a 25% water change and vacuumed some of the gravel. Added prime water conditioner to the new water. I retested my water with my API freshwater master kit and ammonia is still at 0.5ppm. I thought it would at least reduce it a little bit. Or do I need to wait longer to retest my water ? Seriously need help! I feel bad for my fish. If I knew this I would have told the pet store to **** himself!!


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0.5ppm is not the end of the world.

You have really 2 options here.

1. Return the fish and cycle Fishless, no need to worry about hating the fish.

2. You can mix in some RO/DI water which can help cut out the ammonia levelx


Caleb
 
Would you recommend getting filter matter from an established aquarium ?


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Yeah absolutely, that would help immensely.


Great, and my fish seem to be hanging around more at the top near the filter. I'm assuming maybe there's not enough oxygen? What can I add to oxygenate my tank. I do have a air pump but I assume it needs to be attached to a rock or something ?


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Great, and my fish seem to be hanging around more at the top near the filter. I'm assuming maybe there's not enough oxygen? What can I add to oxygenate my tank. I do have a air pump but I assume it needs to be attached to a rock or something ?


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Guppies are surface dwelling fish, so it's normal for them to be at the surface. That said, if they look like they're gasping at the surface for air, then I would check your ammonia again. Ammonia burns the gills of fish, so if your ammonia levels have risen it may be affecting their breathing. An air pump would probably help, and with a little bit of finagling (put an ornament over the hose or something) you can use it without having to attach it to anything.
 
Guppies are surface dwelling fish, so it's normal for them to be at the surface. That said, if they look like they're gasping at the surface for air, then I would check your ammonia again. Ammonia burns the gills of fish, so if your ammonia levels have risen it may be affecting their breathing. An air pump would probably help, and with a little bit of finagling (put an ornament over the hose or something) you can use it without having to attach it to anything.


Ammonia is 0.5ppm. They don't look like their gasping. I did use prime water conditioner. Was under the impression it didn't remove ammonia but makes it less toxic for the fish. Since my water change they seem a lot perkier. Would an air curtain maybe work, or an air stone ?


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Ammonia is 0.5ppm. They don't look like their gasping. I did use prime water conditioner. Was under the impression it didn't remove ammonia but makes it less toxic for the fish. Since my water change they seem a lot perkier. Would an air curtain maybe work, or an air stone ?


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Yeah, Prime should make it non toxic. So it sounds like the guppies are just being normal. Air stones are fine but not generally completely necessary.
 
Should also note that though Prime makes it non toxic, your water test will still read the same amount of ammonia.


Caleb
 
One of my male guppies died ?



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Poor thing :-( too bad if you cant return those poor fish. I did the same thing you did. Since my tank was not cycled, i killed 10 tetras, 1 pleco, 2 german rams, 2 SAE, (not to mention I traumatized my kid when he saw the fish died) just because the LFS guy told me it was A-ok with all the fish even he knew the tank was not ready and I absolutely have no idea of how to take care of the fish but have 100% trust on him. I hope your fish survive. I might be wrong but i went through a bunch of articles and i think most fish dont have great chance after the cycling and will die even after cycling is completed. After i found this site with great advise and guidance, i started a fishless cycling and after over 5 wks, i finally have some fish and theyre alive even my water source has 1ppm ammonia. Wish you luck!!!
 
Poor thing :-( too bad if you cant return those poor fish. I did the same thing you did. Since my tank was not cycled, i killed 10 tetras, 1 pleco, 2 german rams, 2 SAE, (not to mention I traumatized my kid when he saw the fish died) just because the LFS guy told me it was A-ok with all the fish even he knew the tank was not ready and I absolutely have no idea of how to take care of the fish but have 100% trust on him. I hope your fish survive. I might be wrong but i went through a bunch of articles and i think most fish dont have great chance after the cycling and will die even after cycling is completed. After i found this site with great advise and guidance, i started a fishless cycling and after over 5 wks, i finally have some fish and theyre alive even my water source has 1ppm ammonia. Wish you luck!!!


Fish in cycling is easy to do but unlike Fishless it takes a lot more attention and water changes to keep the fish safe from the constantly arising parameters.

Sorry for the loss.


Caleb
 
Yes I've been doing daily water checks with my API master kit and small (5%-25%) water changes accordingly and priming my water but I just feel so bad. The other three were quite active when I turned the light out last night but then went right back to being lazy when the light came on this morning. I haven't been feeding them a lot because there was a lot of food in the gravel I had. I did manage to vacuum most of that out. A friend of mine has a 70 gallon established tank she offered me water from, also recommended marineland bio spira (sp?) to put in my filter/tank. I think the guppies were doomed from the start because at the store their heater was out for two days and the temperature dropped drastically. I guess they didn't notice because Sunday they were closed and Monday was thanksgiving holiday. I went there yesterday and there were at LEAST 10 floating at the top. But in other news I'm extremely grateful that I found this app and forum, I also found out about two local fish stores where their knowledge is impressive compared to the box store I went to get my guppies. I don't think somewhere who sells cat and dog food should be selling fish and giving advice !


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Glad we all have a mutual agreement on the box stores lol.

I would pass on the water from the friend. It holds so minimal bacteria it makes no difference. And if you think about it, if it did, your friend and all of us would experience a mini cycle(a spike in parameters) every water change because of the substantial bacteria loss. Might be good info to relay to the friend as well ;)


Caleb
 
Glad we all have a mutual agreement on the box stores lol.

I would pass on the water from the friend. It holds so minimal bacteria it makes no difference. And if you think about it, if it did, your friend and all of us would experience a mini cycle(a spike in parameters) every water change because of the substantial bacteria loss. Might be good info to relay to the friend as well ;)


Caleb


Yes that makes sense, would it affect her even if it was a routine water change for her ? I can understand there being minimum bacteria seeing the heart of that is the filter. What's your thoughts on the marineland bio spira? Do you think that would help me at all? Just trying to keep the other three alive and somewhat well!


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ImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1444921978.458858.jpg

This is the stuff actually. I have been calling it the wrong name !


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Bacterial additives are a roll of the dice. Some have success with them(helping not finishing a cycle), others it does nothing.


Caleb
 
Poor thing :-( too bad if you cant return those poor fish. I did the same thing you did. Since my tank was not cycled, i killed 10 tetras, 1 pleco, 2 german rams, 2 SAE, (not to mention I traumatized my kid when he saw the fish died) just because the LFS guy told me it was A-ok with all the fish even he knew the tank was not ready and I absolutely have no idea of how to take care of the fish but have 100% trust on him. I hope your fish survive. I might be wrong but i went through a bunch of articles and i think most fish dont have great chance after the cycling and will die even after cycling is completed. After i found this site with great advise and guidance, i started a fishless cycling and after over 5 wks, i finally have some fish and theyre alive even my water source has 1ppm ammonia. Wish you luck!!!

I don't find the fate of the fish to be true. I always do fish in cycling and my fish are doing great and breeding etc. You just have to stay on top of things as Caleb said. Quite honestly all the fish you listed are not appropriate for doing a fish in cycle. Neons are quite delicate and drop dead frequently for no reason.

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