New Fishless Cycle Questions

[drarko]

My specs are 20 gallon high with 30 lbs of medium gravel substrate. Several fake plants and rocks.

After a lot of reading, I have opted for a fshless cycle and decided to use ammonia (Ace Hardware brand) to get the Nitro cycle started. It seems it is quite easy to OD the tank. Basically I was off the charts at 8.0 PPM. It was at about 6 days into the cycle when it hit that point. Days 7, 8, and 9 I did a 30% PWC each day. By day 10 my ammonia was approximately 3.00 on the API chart. I have been at 3.00 ammonia for the last three days (Day 11, 12, and 13). It has not moved. I am checking it twice a day. Tomorrow will be day 14 since I first set the tank up and there are no signs of Nitrite. Should I just let it ride until the ammonia starts to noticeably drop?

Also, the water is cloudy, presumably do to a partial bacteria bloom? At the surface, if i put my finger into the water it looks like a oil slick in that the murky water separates.

Just want to make sure I'm on the right track. Also, I used the apprpraite amount of Marineland Aquarium Conditioner/ Dechlorinator with each water change that has taken place.

Look forward to learning from the site. Thanks for any help

 

[Pass_lake]

I have found the nitrite bacteria do not do as well in high ammonia. You may find that when the ammonia gets down to 2 things will progress. When ammon gets to zero, only add enough ammonia to bring the ammonia levels back up to 2. Eventually you will be able to get ammon and tritr level to zero every 24 hours

 

[librarygirl]

I'd wait it out. The high ammonia initially probably kept the bacteria from forming; now that ammonia is at a better level the cycle should start but it can take 1-2 weeks to see an initial drop in ammonia. If you have an adjustable heater, raise the temp up to about 86. Make sure there's some water splashing into the tank from the filter or add an air stone to promote oxygen exchange. I'm assuming you used dechlorinator to treat the water when you changed it, right? If so then it should be fine. Test your PH too; if it's mid-low 6's it can keep the bacteria from forming; any other number is fine. Other than that it's a waiting game.

Edited: saw that you used the Marineland conditioner. It's a brand I haven't heart of. It says it detoxifies water but doesn't say specifically what it does. You want to make sure it detoxifies chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals. Seachem Prime might be a better brand to switch to (plus it's more concentrated so you'll use less).

 

[drarko]

Getting There

Thanks library girl. Ok it seems like things are finally progressing. It is day 11 (after the ammonia was brought back down to a reasonable level of 3). Today i tested it and am seeing a Nitite spike. Readings are as follows. As best as I can deciper on the API chart.

Ammo - Between 1 and 2
Nitrite - Probably around 3+
Nitrate - Between 5 and 7

My question is where do I go from here? I know the ultimate goal is 0 ammo, 0 nitrite, and 20-40 PPM nitrate.

What's my next step based upon the readings above. I have learned a ton from this forum.

 

[librarygirl]

Looks good. You can wait it out to see if you can get ammonia to drop a bit more, then redose up to 3-4 (don't overdose lol). Here's a dosing calculator (scroll to the bottom where it says ammonia --fishless cycle): Calculator but based on your tank size and ammonia strength you'd need to dose about 3 ml to get it up to 4 once ammonia hits 0. If it's higher than 0 when you dose (say it's at 1), then you add less to get it to 3-4, that calc should help if you add the numbers correctly.

Nitrites are rising so that's good. Basically just test every 24 hours; redose ammonia to 3-4 once it gets under 1-2. Nitrites should continue to rise. If nitrites are 5+ for a week or more, you can do a full water change to try to get them down but I wouldn't worry about that yet. Also keep an eye on PH as it tends to drop around this time and if it drops too much (below 7) it can slow the cycle too. Keep us posted!

 

[Pass_lake]

I would wait for ammonia to drop to zero. Add ammonia so that it returns to 2. Wait until it drops to zero. Repeat until ammonia and nitrites drop to zero in 24 hours. And voila you are cycled

 

[drarko]

Here is my latest update.

Yesterday Ammo went down to zero. Based upon the calculator I thought I would go a little conservative and add enough ammonia to get it up to 2.5 PPM. I added approximately 1 2/3 ml.

I just checked it and it seems it went down to zero. That's the good news.
However, my Nitrites seem to be around 5.00 and my Nitrates seem to be extremely high. Somewhere between 80 and 160.

it is hard to decipher the APi chart. Should I go ahead and add another dose of ammo to see id it will get back down to zero when I check it tomorrow?

Should I wait a few more days and possibly then do a PWC or a full water change?

Thanks guys and gals. I think I am almost there.

 

[Rare]

Also keep an eye on PH as it tends to drop around this time and if it drops too much (below 7) it can slow the cycle too. Keep us posted!

Have you tested your ph/KH? This is very important right now. Just last week in just 2days my pH went to 6.0 & KH was at 17.6. What you have is the same reading I had before the pH went down. High Nitrite & NitrAte. The nitrate at this point is kind of false due to the high number of nitrite. They are eating & you need your ph stable & also your KH.

 

[Pass_lake]

I would you suggest you add ammonia whenever it gets to zero, but only add enough to bring it up to 2 ppm. The nitrites will catch up. When both levels drop to zero in 24 hours reliably, you are cycled

 

[drarko]

today's Update

Well it seems like the tank is not having any problems converting 2.00PPM Ammo over a 24 hour period.

Nitrites seem to be falling a tad bit. Probably closer to the 2.00 than the 5.00 mrk.
Also, Nitrates seem to have come down a bit as well, probably between the 20 and 40 mark.

I've been adding 1 1/3 ml of ammo each day based upon the tank size and amount of substrate.

I'll keep the routine up. Seems to be making progress. How long would you estimate it will take for the Nitrites to also reach 0 over a 24 hour period?

 

[librarygirl]

Hm, nitrates don't typically leave the aquarium unless through water changes but I've seen them drop inexplicably during some cycles. I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you're using the API kit just be sure to vigorously shake the nitrate bottles for 30 sec before you use them (I also like to bang them on a hard surface a few times) and shake the tube for a full minute and then wait 5 minutes for the result. The nitrate test can be finicky if not done properly.

Next time you dose, try upping the dose to 3 instead of 2.

The ammonia conversion is excellent, so basically it's just waiting on nitrite. The nitrite phase is the longest, typically taking 3 weeks on average. They'll likely spike again. If they remain at 5 for a week, or/and your ammonia conversion slows or/and your PH drops, then do a full water change, but other than that it's just testing, dosing and waiting.

 

[drarko]

2/3 of the Way There

Seems like the tank is processing 3 ppm of ammo on a regular basis now.

Checked it three days in a row aand both ammo and nitrites are at 0.

the nitrates however seem to be a bit high. Proabably somewhere around 40 - 80 based on the reference card.

Through evaporation and checking water and allowing for a bunch of spalshing in the tank the water level level is down probably a couple of gallons.

My question is what should be the next step to bring down the nitrates so that I can begin to add a couple of fish at a time. Is a partial water change in order?

 

[Rare]

The only way to bring the niRate down all the time is to do PWC. When you dose it back up to 3ppm of ammonia and in 24 hrs it's all gone, so is nitrite, do the BIG PWC. Now, you have 24hrs to bring home your fish Congrats!

 

[drarko]

PWC

Thanks Rare. By big PWC, what amount do you suggest? a 50% water change?

Will that be enough to bring the Nitrates down to less than 40 PPM?

 

[drarko]

Ready to Go

Just did a 80% water change and will be getting fish tomorrow. Should I put a small dose of ammo in tonight or not?

Also what are suggestions for a number of fish to start with, 2-3?

 

[librarygirl]

Just did a 80% water change and will be getting fish tomorrow. Should I put a small dose of ammo in tonight or not?

Also what are suggestions for a number of fish to start with, 2-3?

No, no need to dose ammonia if you're getting fish soon. Check nitrates again though; you want them as low as you can get them before adding fish. If they are over 10, do another large water change to get them down. If you had the heater turned up for the cycle be sure to lower it (most tropicals do best between 76-78 F).

As for fish, it depends. What fish were you planning on adding to the tank?

Also do a youtube video search for "drip acclimation aquarium;" it's one of the best ways to introduce fish to a new tank.

 

[drarko]

Latest Update

Here is my latest update....

I added fish last Sunday. I started off with three red eye tetra. Been closely watching the water all week. Readings today were 0 ammo, between .50 and 1.00 on trite and around 20 on trate. I did about a fairly large water change today of about 7 gallons. Temperature has been around 76-78 degrees. PH is around 7.8+.

I am planning on adding one more red eye today. I read that they do well in groups of 6 or more. Would it be too soon to add 3 today or should I just put one more in there today and then next week add 2 more?

With the three that i currently have their is on that is definitely a loaner.

Also, they tend to favor the top of the tank is this unusual. The filter is definitely creating bubbles from the splashing so i think there is enough oxygen. They do move around top to bottom quite a bir but just seems they favor the top. Just curious on this?