New owner questions (mainly water changes).

[SpaceButler]

Hi. My name's Mike. I'm new to fish and brand new to the forum here.

Brief history: I got a 10 gallon tank on a whim in mid-October, with it I got some painted glass fish (4). It wasn't till after I bought then that I learned what "painted" meant (yeah, I'm an idiot) and was appalled by the thought of the painted fish genre. To no great surprise, those fish died and I made a new start with a pleco and 2 oscars.

Another tidbit of information I missed was that O's grow to about 12-14"... But don't think I'm a sadist! I'm searching everyday for a good deal on a 55 gallon (at least); as for now, neither Oscar is over 2 inches, and they seem quite comfortable. If I'm not able to move them by the time I think they need it, I'll see they get to a comfortable tank even if it means selling them.

The important thing is that aquaria (proper term?) has become an instant obsession with me, and I would like some help with tank care.

The main question I have is on possible harms of too-frequent water changes. I use a dechlor and let the water sit for hours before adding it to my tank. I don't find the changes a chore, in fact, the idea of getting my little guys fresh water makes me want to change water all the time. My fear is that changing too often could be harmful. I can understand the harm of changing too much at once, if I were to change, say, 10% every day, is that just way too much?

In addition, my water will get cloudy for no apparent reason, fix it self in about a week and a half, then get cloudy again. Am I maybe cleaning too much and making it recycle? Do I need to do something chemically to the tank? I'm going to have the parameters checked today, so I can post those later.

Let's see... I have lots of hiding places for the fish, a heater that I keep at 78 degrees... and I think that's it.

Any advice, tips, or comments would be so appreciated. I want this aquarium to be as enjoyable for the fish as it is for me.

Thanks.

 

[FancyGuppyGuy]

10% a day would be fine. Make sure the temp of the water is the same as the water in the tank. I use a digital thermometer So I get it within .2 degrees.

Water changes are the main thing to keeping healthy fish. Its good that you want to help them this way and enjoy caring for them

In my fry and young fish tanks I do 25% water changes every day or two and they are doing very well.

Over cleaning can result in a bacteria bloom. Heres a site with some tips about bacteria.

http://fish.orbust.net/cycling.html

 

[SpaceButler]

Ah, thank you.

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

Hi there SpaceButler! Welcome to AA

I'm a newbie too - in the process of setting up a brand new tank and now battling ich. Oy.

Someone else more experienced than I might want to comment, but do you have a set of tests so you can keep an eye on your water quality? I have a complete set that checks ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH (as well as a couple others I haven't needed yet). If your nitrates aren't completely established, you might want to let the water be for a few days. So far I have done one 20% water change since I started on the 24th... plan on doing another 20% in another day or two.

Again, I'm a newbie too, so get a few more opinions and it will really help you form a good plan

 

[SpaceButler]

Grah! Thanks for the comments, but now I have more problems.

I think the hardest part about starting this hobby is that I never ever ever get the same answers from different sources. This leads me to believe that there's no one way to do it right. So I guess, all I'm really looking for is info on what is patently harmful to my fish.

The lady at my LFS seemed extremely knowledgeable about the nitrate cycle and nitrites and nh3 etc, and she said I was water changing way too much and cause my tank to keep reverting to the new tank syndrome. She recommended about 25% every 4-6 weeks!! That seems like an awful long time, but the way she explained it made sense, what with me robbing the tank of benefitial bacteria.

I like how online sources say that LFS clerks are either ignorant or old fashioned and stubborn, while the LFSers think the internet group is just a bunch of punks. Who's an aquarist to trust? Even library books I've read are all different. Grah, I say!

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

4-6 weeks seems like a long time to go between water changes. I know when I am sure my tank has matured, I plan to do a 20-25% water chage every week to 2 weeks.

And you're right - there doesn't seem to be ONE right way to do things. Just take advice given and modify it to meet your needs.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this board. Keep posting questions

I sent you a PM with some additional information.

 

[FancyGuppyGuy]

The lady at the fish store needs to do some research I think.

There are people on this board that breed huge amounts of fish and sell them to people like her

I would trust what I read here from people in the know and on the other Information sites before I trusted some sales person at a fish store.

You can change your water every 4-6 weeks thats up to you and what you want to do with your fish. Personally I wouldnt go over 2 weeks with out vaccuming and water changing my main tank. I usually do it 1-2 times a week because I know my fish enjoy the fresh water and it keeps them healthy.

 

[SpaceButler]

Yeah. I really have a hard time going 3-4 days without changing. It's kind of a compulsion. Maybe, I just just cool it a bit, and try 25% or so every 2 weeks. From the ranges I've been hearing, that sounds like a safe bet.

Maybe once a week...

 

[QTOFFER]

The beneficial bacteria don't live in the water. They form a biofilm that sticks to solid surfaces (tank walls, gravel, decorations, and filter). As long as you don't mess with the filter or over-vac the gravel, simply removing and replacing water shouldn't disturb the bacterial colony very much at all. I would recommend doing 20 - 40% once a week with a light gravel vac.

You don't have to let the water sit if you're using dechlor. If you're using a bucket, you can add dechlor to the bucket, fill it up, and dump it into the tank immediately. If your'e using a Python, you can just add dechlor as you refill the tank.

I'm so glad you found out about the growth potential of oscars - aren't they cute when they're 2 inch long babies? Well, with proper nutrition, they'll both be about 8 inches long within a year! Since you have two, I would recommend getting a 75 gal instead of a 55. It's not an outrageous difference in price, and I think you'll find it well worth the investment when those oscars grow up.

Oscars are very messy fish that love to dig in the substrate; plecos are formidable poop factories! I think this is contributing to your cloudy water. You may want to get some additional filtration until you can move the three fish to bigger digs. An additional HOB filter should help.

 

[SpaceButler]

That's the sort of supported answer I like! I am seriously a compulsive water changer, and I'd probably lose it if I had to wait a month. I'll try my best to stay away from the gravel and objects, etc. for longer periods of time.

Thanks a ton.

As for the oscar transplant, space is a big issue where I live, so I think I'm going to do my best raising them both for now, and then sell one of them to the store.

EDIT: BTW I was excessively cleaning the gravel and filter, so I hope this new info will solve my problem.

 

[QTOFFER]

Once the tank is well established, you can (and probably should) gravel vac weekly. It's not necessary to clean the filter very often - only if you notice significantly decreased flowthrough. I clean my HOB filters by swishing the cartridge around in a bucket of tankwater.

BTW, you probably have about 4 months before your oscars outgrow the 10 gal. The minimum recommended tank size for one oscar is 55 gal. Keeping two in a 55 would probably result in some nasty fights over territory.

 

[Jchillin]

It's amazing what these "so called" experts at LFS do to hobbyists. Think of this, without joining AA and seeing the information you requested, you may very well have waited "WAY TO LONG" to perform a water change, which would have endangered your fish. You would have gone to them to let them know and they would blame you anyway...and offer to sell you more fish. Just amazing if you think about it. LFS

 

[SpaceButler]

I do believe the LFS lady in that I took out good bacteria though.. I like scrubbed the filter recently, in addition to extreme gravel vacuuming.

Do you think that since the water is a bit cloudy (and assuming I got rid of too much bacteria) should I do a water change daily? (Of course without messing with the objects and gravel in the tank)

 

[Jchillin]

As previously mentioned, removing water isn't a problem. You can continue this as suggested. If your parameters are normal, you didn't remove any significant amount of bacteria.

 

[SpaceButler]

Well, they're not normal--to my knowledge.

The ph is ok at 7.0
But I have no nh3 or nitrates/ites according to the test she did.

 

[Jchillin]

That would mean that you're still cycling. You would do well to have your own test kits (NH3, NO2, NO3 and ph). This way you won't have to rely on them letting you know when your tank is cycled. What are you cycling with?

 

[SpaceButler]

I didn't think I was still. I've had the tank running for 3 months, and it seemed to go well. Then I cleaned the scum off the filter recently and vacuumed a whole lot (without knowing that I should let the filter have some of that scum). I figured I just reverted the tank back to new tank status by mistake or something.

 

[Jchillin]

The absence of nitrate kinda tells the story. It was an error but not a fatal one. Get those test kits so you can monitor your parameters. You will get NH3 spikes and the water changes will help to remove it before it becomes toxic to the fish.

 

[SpaceButler]

Great.

Hey, thanks so much for all the help.

 

[Jchillin]

No problem Space...GTH.