New Tank - not going so well...

[MikeW2]

Hey everyone

My girlfriend got me a 20 gallon tank for my birthday, so after filling it up, adding dechlorinator and letting it sit 24 hours, we went and got some fish. We got 2 guppies and 4 "cloudfish"? They are orangey-gold in colour.

Anyway, in the 3 days since, 3 of the cloudfish and one of the guppies have passed away.
Also, since about the time we put them in the tank, the cloudfish barely swim at all, they mostly sit there in the middle of the tank "treading water" looking at the guppies. The guppy stays right at the top, and usually in the back corner. When I turn off the aquarium light he actually gets a lot more energetic and often comes to the front and even sometimes swims around the middle or bottom.

I got a test kit and here are the results:

pH: about 7.6
Alkalinity: about 80 ppm
Hardness: about 125 ppm
Nitrites: Zero
Nitrates: about 10 ppm (Mg/L)

Filter: Aqua-Tech 20-40
I cannot find the specs on this thing, but it came in the box along with the tank and heater (100W) so I assumed it is adequate.

Temperature is set to about 77 deg. F

The symptoms the fish have displayed seems to be consistent with carbon dioxide poisoning but I have 2 separate air toy thingies in the tank so there should be plenty of oxygen.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. What could be going on in my tank? I know it's not the best idea to throw fish in a brand new tank but the manual and the guy at the fish store said it would be ok. We specifically picked fish that were easy to maintain, so I'm a bit worried. I hate to see them dying.

Thanks for your time

 

[Zagz]

I am guessing there is a lot of ammonia in the tank. You didn't post ammonia parameters. Do a pwc and test for ammonia, your tank isn't cycled yet. You will need to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate regularily and do regular pwc's until the tank is cycled. HTH

 

[Zagz]

EEEEkkkk forgot my manners!! WELCOME TO AA!

 

[MikeW2]

Thanks very much Zagz!

They told me at the store I didn't need the advanced kit (which tested ammonia) and to just get the strips and simply assume there was ammonia in the tank. I'm a newbie so I didn't know any better.. ah well.

So I'll do a pwc and then test for ammonia. Assuming ammonia is too high, will the water changes help bring them down?

I'm not totally clear still on the cycling, but I understand I need bacteria to convert the ammonia to nitrites and then nitrates. I guess since it's a new tank, I don't have enough bacteria to convert it yet? That explains my low nitrite/nitrate numbers. I think I am piecing it all together finally.

Thanks again for your help, and the warm welcome.

 

[BlazerFRS]

o I'll do a pwc and then test for ammonia. Assuming ammonia is too high, will the water changes help bring them down?

The water changes will help dilute the ammonia, yes. I believe the target is less than .25 ppm.

 

[Zagz]

Water changes will help to keep the ammonia down. I would recommend the liquid tests as they are more accurate than the test strips. We were all newbies once, I still am! LOL, this is a great place to learn and you need not be afraid to ask anything.
Ammonia starts the cycle, it will then turn to nitrite and then to nitrate, once your tank is ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm and nitrates of at least 5-10 ppm your cycle is done. Don't add any more fish for now and keep up on the pwc's and everything will work out. LFS are notorious for not giving out all the information, they sell more fish that way.

 

[MikeW2]

Well when I woke up this morning (after counting my fishies - both are still alive) I noticed the water was cloudy. If I'm not mistaken, that is due to bacteria. I noticed there are things at the fish store to treat cloudiness but do I want this bacteria in there to accelerate the cycle? Is there a way to differentiate good bacteria from bad bacteria in this case?

I did the water change anyway, about 15%. The guppy got really active during the change, so that was good.

 

[talloulou]

The cloudiness is due to a bacteria bloom. Definitely don't buy anything to treat cloudy water. The bacteria bloom is a normal part of the process and will resolve on it's own over time. Keep doing the pwc daily or at least every other day during your cycle. This wil help your fish survive the cycle.

 

[mrcrazypants05]

I've been doing 50-75% PWC's on my 125 gallon tank every day, so changing your water shouldn't be a problem. Good luck, and welcome to AA!

 

[Devilishturtles]

The only thing the chemicals do to treat cloudiness is coagulate the particles that are making your water cloudy, and make them large enough so that they get caught in your filter instead of passing right through it. Give it time, and it will go away. Keep testing your water everyday as well, to keep up on the progress.

And, I'm assuming you checked already, but are you sure there are no dead fish in the tank? Cloudy water could also = dead fish lurking somewhere, as well.

 

[MikeW2]

50-75% every day on a 125?! This was my first water change, I'm going to figure out a better way to do it. A huge bucket sounds like it will help. Today I was using a little 2 quart thingy and a cup to fill it up from the tank. Hardly what you'd call efficient.

Devlishturtles: There are definitely no dead fish lurking. I only had 6 to begin with and have personally flushed the other 4. So other than the time between their deaths and me getting home from work, that's not a problem. But I will keep that in mind in the future.

Thanks everybody.

 

[DiverDown]

Find another fish store. If they told you to just assume that you've got ammonia problems, and didn't sell you a test kit for it, they are just trying to get you to keep coming back for more fish. I would avoid PetSmart, SuperPets, or any of the huge chain pet stores that sell something for every pet imaginable. Find a dedicated aquarium store. If the owner is worth his salt, he will be honest with you. I have 2 locally that know me by name when I walk in. It is in your best interest and theirs to find a store you are comfortable with.

Welcome to the hobby, you'll love it.

 

[Zagz]

For water changes you could get a Python water change system. It can be purchased online at www.bigals.com. Here is a link describing it....http://www.pythonproducts.com/nospill.htm. I purchased one and I love it!

 

[MikeW2]

Well, I did a 40-50% change tonight, and then took an ammonia reading with the new kit I got tonight. Ammonia apparently is just a tiny bit over zero, maybe .05 ppm. I thought it would be a lot higher. For the sake of consistency, I'm going to do all the rest of the tests with the new kit tonight.

 

[Zagz]

Good news the pwc is helping. Keep an eye on it, you are on your way to a healthy tank!

 

[MikeW2]

Diverdown: I wasn't clear, they didn't actually tell me to assume I have ammonia problems, but to assume I had ammonia. Presumably because I had 6 fish in the tank? I can't blame them, I made it clear I was a newbie and probably had a dumb look on my face, they were trying to keep it simple for me I guess.

Thanks Zagz. I have seen people talking about those, I guess I'll pick one up. I don't mind doing it manually at the moment, it's about the only exercise I get! But eventually I'll need one.

I did the Nitrite test, and there were Zero ppm. Nitrates are about 2.5 ppm.

The guppy is even more active than before now. He has been ripping around the tank for a couple of hours now almost non-stop. The water changes have had a HUGE effect on him, but not so much on the cloudfish. Thanks to everyone for your help!!