New Tank-- Should I add something to lower ph?

[momwhyisitfloating]

Hey. This is my first post and I haven't kept an aquarium in years. I had some success as a teenager, but I think it was mostly luck. My three year old son recently had to give up his beloved cat and dog due to allergies, and I have been wanting to start an aquarium for a while, so I thought it might make a nice distraction for him.

I know a 10 gal is small, but I wanted to keep it cheap until I learn the basics. If I have some success, I will upgrade. I set the aquarium up with gravel, one small artificial plant, started the filter, and added 1 tsp of "Stress Coat" to get rid of chlorine. I let the filter run for 24 hours, and tested the ph. It was about 7.6, maybe a little higher. I added 3 black skirted tetras, thinking they'd be fine because the aquarium had run for 24 hours as directed, and the fish are supposed to like 7-8 ph. They were dead within 3 hours. My best guess is that it was probably ammonia, since I read that high ph = high ammonia. Is that correct? Since the ph is a little high, should I add something to lower it before adding fish? Also, how long should I let the aquarium run?? I have read of people letting them go for weeks, but I don't understand the purpose of running it for days or weeks without fish if the nitrogen cycle doesn't begin until the fish are added? I understand you want to get the water to a good temp, good ph, get rid of all the chemicals and metals, etc., but does this really take weeks?

I'm getting a master test kit today so I can test more than just ph. Should've done that to begin with. Later I should have some more info. Forgive my ignorance and don't go too hard on me. I'm very interested in this and determined to learn. In the meantime, I'm just grateful the kid wasn't too disappointed with the dead fish.

 

[matty2085]

When you cycle a tank you need to add something to start the nitorgen cycle but it doesn't have to be the fish themselves. This can either be fish - a fish in cycle, or undertake a fishless cycle where you add food/dead shrimp to kick start the process. If you want to add fish straight away..a fish in cycle, then I personally wouldn't use tetras. Perhaps danios or something a little more hardy.

I wouldn't lower the pH. I have had the same problem as I want to keep a specific fish type that apparently doesn't like high pH. Mine is 8.0-8.2. I believe that a lot of people on here would suggest that a stable pH is more important than a low pH. Fish can adapt better to a stable pH than to one that may change as you try to alter it with chemicals. I guess it's best to try to match fish to your water parameters but personally I don't think it is worth messing with the water conditions.

There are loads of articles about the nitrogen cycle that would be worth a read, both on this site and others, and may help to explain the whys and ways this process can be undertaken...well worth a read to avoid more fish deaths and more expense.

 

[bud29]

High ph does not equal high ammonia. You got high ammonia because the tank was not cycled. As long as your pH is not something outrageously high (8.6+) you don't need to add anything to lower it. Stability in the pH is more important.

Here is a good cycling article. It has everything you need to know:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html

Good luck on your tank


-bud

 

[momwhyisitfloating]

The ph test kit I had only measured up to 7.6. Today I took a water sample in to PetSmart and they tested it. It was much higher, like close to 9. So I did put some Ph Minus in the tank, and bought a better test kit. I'll retest again and try to read up on the nitrogen cycle before I get any more fish. Thank you guys for the information.

 

[tarpon]

Fish will adjust to your Ph.
Products that change it like Ph minus can cause swings which can kill your fish. Which are already in danger from high ammonia levels. Fish need stability in every aspect of the aquarium

 

[Samzter]

Driftwood can lower pH. When you get the test kit let us know what the levels are

 

[bud29]

I don't know too much about pH minus, but I do know that a lot of chemicals like that wear off and cause a fluctuation in the pH which is very harmful. One pH lowering product I know of that is good is Seachem Neutral Regulator. You can find it at Petsmart.

Also, you can let your water sit overnight before putting it in the tank. This is called letting it gas off. This lowers the pH, and slightly lowers toxin levels.

 

[tamtam]

1 of the articles has already been posted about cycling but I'm going to post this link, it has some great articles that may help you out.

is this your tanks PH or your tap waters PH? When was the last time you did water change?

as it's been mentioned using products to regulate water qualities can become a pain and actually be worse for your fish. Fish are good at adapting but stability is very important. If you have a stable PH of 8.6 then most fish will adapt fine to this if it's stable. If you have to keep adding products to lower it all the time there is going to be a lot of fluctuations. As mentioned driftwood is a natural way to lower it. If you have done a water change in the last 24 hours or this was tap water than you can let your water gas out as it's been mentioned. Give it a few stirs over the course of 24 hours and retest to get your true ph.

How did you acclimated the fish? 3 hours seems pretty quick for ammonia to spike enough to kill them. It's not uncommon in this set up but I wonder if they were shocked some other way.

Ammonia comes from waste like left over food, fish waste, dead fish or plants. This waste will build and build unless your cycle is established to break this down. There is no purpose in letting a tank run for a couple days unless you are letting the temp adjust or your substrate settle.

You've been given some great advice and those articles are really helpful too. The only other thing I would suggest is to research your fish choice before buying again. There are many fish that are not suitable for a 10 gallon tank. Tetras need bigger as they are so active, also they are schooling fish and need 5-6 at the min. There are still options for your tank, like guppies. Your son may really like them, they are colorful, have flowy fins and are very active. Also very hardy and would fair well through a proper fish in cycle if that's what you choose.

 

[Borderlesscott]

pH effects ammonia in the form that at higher pH values ammonia is more deadly, at lower pH ammonia turns into free ammonia and is less deadly.

http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Ammonia_Management.pdf

http://rotifersolutions.com/?p=89


You could probably do a fishless cycle in a tank that size in 2-3 weeks.

 

[momwhyisitfloating]

Right now there are no fish in the tank. I don't really know what the next step is. The water is still cloudy and I don't know why. The ph is down to about 7.6 now from 8.8+ yesterday. There's no chlorine or nitrates according to the test. The "carbonate hardness" is 120ish.

 

[SolvingNormal]

Right now there are no fish in the tank. I don't really know what the next step is. The water is still cloudy and I don't know why. The ph is down to about 7.6 now from 8.8+ yesterday. There's no chlorine or nitrates according to the test. The "carbonate hardness" is 120ish.

Did you read the link posted about fish less cycling? It tells you what to do.

 

[momwhyisitfloating]

Did you read the link posted about fish less cycling? It tells you what to do.

Yeah, I read it. Everyone I know who has an aquarium sounds like theirs are probably really unhealthy, so I don't have anyone to ask for seeding material. Ammonia would be the next step, I guess. I need to go back and read it a third time.

I would love to know how many people actually do it this way.

 

[tamtam]

Yeah, I read it. Everyone I know who has an aquarium sounds like theirs are probably really unhealthy, so I don't have anyone to ask for seeding material. Ammonia would be the next step, I guess. I need to go back and read it a third time.

I would love to know how many people actually do it this way.

even with seeded material the odds are unless you get a lot you'd still need ammonia.

You can do a fish in cycle if you really don't want to do a fish less cycle. In the end this process is going to happen and it's just best to be prepared for it. Many people do get by "without cycling" their tank and this just means that their tank cycled with out them knowing and they were lucky enough that their fish survived.

Both have their pros and cons so it's about what really works best for you. Either way you need an ammonia source, whether it's fish or actually ammonia and following the steps from their for what's best for your life style.

clouding is a common thing in newer tanks. It could very well be a bacteria bloom. Is there any ammonia reading in the tank right now?

 

[Borderlesscott]

I fishless cycled two of my tanks and can say that's it's far quicker and relatively easy to do, don't let some of the instructions put you off. I did have two tanks running before I did this so I had fish to enjoy and can fully understand why some people just can't wait for the cycling and just want to get something in the tank. Adding fish to the tank once cycled is far better, it will save you so much stress and worth the wait - ill never do a fish in cycle again, the hardest bit for me was finding a bottle of ammonia, must have tried 10 stores before I found a bottle.

 

[librarygirl]

I doubt any ammonia in the water killed the fish in 3 hours unless your tap water has high concentrations of ammonia. It's good to test your tap for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to see what you are starting with.

How did you acclimate the fish? This is what I'm suspecting might have killed them. If you just floated the bag and then added the fish that only acclimates them to temperature but doesn't acclimate them to other things in your water like PH, etc.

As for PH: yours is fine, no need to mess with it (which often causes more problems). Test your PH out of the tap; then set a glass of water aside for 24 hours (stir it up occasionally) and then test the PH again after 24 hours and see what it is. This will be your true PH and what your tank's PH should be -- sometimes it differs from when it comes out of the tap because it needs to degass. For example the PH out of my tap is 8.4 but after it sits out for a while it goes down to 7.2 which is what my tank's PH is.

From here you can do one of two things: fishless cycle the tank (using pure ammonia or something similar) or try adding another small fish or two and acclimate them more slowly (you can either drip acclimate, which is the preferred method -- youtube has some vidoes -- or float the bag of fish in the tank and then slowly add 1/4 cup of your tank's water to the bag every 20 minutes or so. Do this until the volume of water in the bag doubles, then dump out half the water (not into your tank) and do it again. Then net the fish into the tank.

Be sure to research fish you want to get first (asking here is probably best lol). A 10 gal is fairly limiting and even some small fish like neon tetras and most danios are very active and need more room than a 10 gal can give them.

You might want to give this guide a read too; it has links to fish-in and fishless cycling so you can decide which route you want to go in addition to some other info: Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium - Aquarium Advice