New tank with rapid death rate

[HeatherW]

Hi King - jumping in here kinda late. your story sounds like mine. I wrote my story in member introductions back in dec i think. you can read it if you want - we share a similar story except you are testing your water better than me. here is what I have learned.

number 1: get yourself a liquid test kit! API master kit is what everyone uses. I was taking my water to the pet store, they tested it with strips, said it was ok, bought fish, fish died, return/exchange... etc you know the story. this went on for probably a month! results were when I finally got my own test kit I found out that my water was terrible and had to do lots of water changes. I am not sure why all the fish die at the start. I too went to several different pet stores all with the same results. I think possibly it is just getting the tank set up.

here is what I would try. 1- order yourself the liquid test kit. 2 - get one fish and put him in there. everyday do a 50% WC with temp matched and conditioned water. make sure you acclimate him well as described above. I use the add the water to the bag slowly method. if you see any distress in your fish do a 50% WC regardless of what your test strips say.

3 - get yourself some prime for your water conditioner. you can use the other stuff later once your tank is established and all is well with your fish. this stuff will help your fish until your levels are all good.

another question for you - when you add your water, how are you adding? make sure it is nice and slow. I use the siphon thing and do it in reverse (make sense?)

and lastly - I wouldn't worry so much about the temp of your tank - I think you will be ok. if anything try the fan blowing across the tank, but I think your real issue is the water quality not the water temp.

hope you get some to live!! once you do, then your tank will be goo. I had a rough go of it too, but it will work. hang in there!!

 

[janky]

I should add that the original water was treated with Tetra water conditioner, the sample pack included with my aquarium when I bought it.

I used the tetra aquasafe or whatever for my first 2 tanks and had no problems.

But yeah, go with prime when that runs out. Prime is good stuff

 

[Kingzilla]

Thanks Heather, that makes me feel a bit better

I will be getting the API liquid test kit next week, the store was out of stock and I needed something that day which is the only reason for buying the strips. at $30-35 each, I cant afford two kits in one week.

I am doing the add water to bag slowly method and it seems to be helping.

I don't have enough ammonia to do a daily 50% WC as I need to feed my growing bacteria. I'm doing 10-15% WC daily and ammonia stays below 1ppm (about .5ppm). Of course, if I'm wrong, please correct me on this.

I have been adding water with the siphon thing in reverse although it is a pain holding a bucket of water up in the air to get the siphon to work. And yes, its a dedicated bucket purchased specifically for my aquarium.

 

[Kingzilla]

Sorry, I just realised that you said "if you see any distress in your fish", my bad. Yes, I will do that if I see a problem.
I just did a 50% WC earlier today to be on the safe side before getting more fish.

Janky, I guess I'll pick up some Prime tomorrow if they sell it at Petsmart, I have to go there anyway as Big Al's didn't have a very good selection of florescent bulbs to fit my aquarium and Petsmart was closed by the time I left Big Al's.

 

[Kingzilla]

Well, it doesn't look good for my last guppy... He is currently upside down although he changes location from time to time but keep resting upside down...

 

[Teshi]

I don't have enough ammonia to do a daily 50% WC as I need to feed my growing bacteria. I'm doing 10-15% WC daily and ammonia stays below 1ppm (about .5ppm). Of course, if I'm wrong, please correct me on this.

I wouldn't worry right now about feeding my bacteria. If your just using test strips this could be way higher than they really show. The fish in the tank and the food your feeding it will feed the bacteria. Please do at least 50% water changes daily. The cycling will come.

 

[librarygirl]

Sorry about your fish. If your ammonia reaches .5-1 with just the fish you have you probably shouldn't add anymore.

Just a thought, but maybe you should consider a fishless cycle at this point: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html

 

[LyndaB]

No one can say your water parameters are "fine" because no one is testing them with a proper kit.

You don't have to order the kit from your store. You can get it for less than $20 on-line.

Until you know for certain what your parameters are, you should not add fish.

 

[Kingzilla]

I don't plan on adding more until the tank is cycled but still, an uncycled tank with regular WC should be able to support a few small fish.
and even though, yes, test strips are not the best, ammonia should not kill the fish until it gets to 3-5ppm from what I understand so with my water constantly testing below 1ppm, even with the inaccuracy of the strips, should be fine because even if the true value was double, that shouldn't have killed my fish overnight. (stress them, yes, but kill, no)

It all goes back to my original fish, tank had run 96hrs, I added 5 guppies and they were all dead in under 24hrs, they couldn't have produced enough ammonia in a 20gal tank to kill themselves (as far as I know).

There must be some underlying cause like a toxic substance leaching into the water but what and where from.

My gf has a beta in a small 2L tank (he is waiting for his new home to be safe) and we haven't had a problem with him so there can't be a problem with the tap water. If a slimy little tank with no filter or air supply can support a fish, why can't a large tank with filter and air support fish...

Also, I'm seeding with used filter media and have yet to see any nitrites or nitrates, could this be a sign of a potential problem?
Is there something I should test the water for besides whats covered with the 6in1+ammonia kit?

 

[Aspencer]

I don't plan on adding more until the tank is cycled but still, an uncycled tank with regular WC should be able to support a few small fish.
and even though, yes, test strips are not the best, ammonia should not kill the fish until it gets to 3-5ppm from what I understand so with my water constantly testing below 1ppm, even with the inaccuracy of the strips, should be fine because even if the true value was double, that shouldn't have killed my fish overnight. (stress them, yes, but kill, no)

Yes, with regular, everyday if your ammonia is over .25 ppm, water changes, your fish should be able to survive but with ammonia up to 5 ppm as you suggest is deadly, especially as your pH gets higher than 7.0. I think you information is faulty.

 

[LyndaB]

Where did you get this tank? New? Used? In your basement for 39 years? Maybe that will help us figure out if there could be a toxic substance in the tank itself.

 

[Hobgob]

First off you can't say this amount of ammonia is safe because it all depends on your ph! Also ammonia shouldn't be over .5ppm I myself say .25 and it water changes time. Basically this is my opinion on hat I would do.
Stop adding fish. Use three for a fishin cycle. Do atleast 50% water change a day. It doesnt matter what the strips say. Remember in science class when you used litmus paper to determine things? The teacher said in my class how inaccurate they were and when you get your liquid kit you will no. Who even knows what your water actually is. Get the temp to 76ish. I can't remeber if it was your temp that was close to 84 or not... Make sure there is enough oxygen in the water. Higher temp means leas oxygen.

Stop adding fish, water change each day, wait for it to cycle, hope the kit comes in soon...

 

[Kingzilla]

I said 3-5ppm as I'm at work and didn't want to look up the exact ratings on ammonia. Also, my tank has never hit 1ppm ftr
I've never had more then 5 guppies in my tank and I only went 5 as I was told to. My last purchase was 3 zebra daniaos to replace the dead guppies.

ALL my equipment was new from the store
my temp is about 26C
I have an air pump

 

[Teshi]

I do feel bad and am sorry for your loss. I am watching the thread to see if the mystery is solved. Seems there is a missing piece to the puzzle somewhere but we just can't help you find it.

 

[janky]

Yeah I'm really puzzled too man. I've seen people keep goldfish and danios in muddy water that they never treat or do anything to... just fill with tap water and let sit for months until its murky.

It's kinda mind-boggling how you're doing all the right things but every fish that goes in your tank dies

 

[Kingzilla]

Thank you. I actually did a lot of research before joining this forum, I was unable to find anything. I learned all the basics and thought I was set. I've spent over $300 on this 20gal tank so far and despite my best efforts, I'm epically failing. I remember as a kid like 15yrs ago, it was go to store, buy a bowl, gravel, air pump, and goldfish. You would get a week minimum out of a fish but now with these filters, better technology, all these water treatment chemicals etc, a fish wont even live 24hrs...

I'm hoping at some point the right person will come by this thread and say hey, have you tried ____ or you should get test x and check your water for that

 

[Hobgob]

I said 3-5ppm as I'm at work and didn't want to look up the exact ratings on ammonia. Also, my tank has never hit 1ppm ftr
I've never had more then 5 guppies in my tank and I only went 5 as I was told to. My last purchase was 3 zebra daniaos to replace the dead guppies.

ALL my equipment was new from the store
my temp is about 26C
I have an air pump

Ok .5 is to much and it should never hit 1ppm. At .5 you need to do a 50%water change if not more. Another thing is your using the strips so who to say what it actually is.

Is your temperature constantly at 26 or is it fluctuating? Temperature swings stress the fish.

I understand that 5 is what your lfs said but when I have to do a fish in cycle I use 5or 6neons and never had one die during the cycle. If I can cycle with 5 fish putting out a smaller bio load three guppies will be fine. this will also help in your water parameters. But make sure to get one male two females or all males.

As for buying new fish. Why would you keep putting stuff in the tank if it just dies? Guppies are hardy fish just keep the stock you have and wait till everything calms down.

And as far as test for x. Get a liquid kit and keep testing the right people are here.
And gold fish lol. They are weird my friend has had one in a 10g for 7 years without a filter, no light, and barely does water changes. Maybe 1 every 2 or 3 moths

 

[Kingzilla]

well 0.5ppm although bad, is not enough to kill fish, I do my best to stay below that.

the temp varies from 25-27C from environmental factors beyond my control. they have tank heaters, why not tank AC units? lol

all my guppies were male but I'm now using 3 zebra danios (not sure of spelling)
I keep putting fish in because I don't want to do a fishless cycle so if they die, I cry a little on the inside and buy replacements since they're cheap.

and the gold fish thing was just a reference to the fact that as a child, fish were easy, you know what I mean, there was 1-2 choices for each product and it was simple... Technology advances but we move backwards... I swear, half the products today were invented for the sole purpose of people being able to tell you you're doing it wrong lmao

 

[Aspencer]

all my guppies were male but I'm now using 3 zebra danios (not sure of spelling)
I keep putting fish in because I don't want to do a fishless cycle so if they die, I cry a little on the inside and buy replacements since they're cheap.

Would you feel the same way if you were getting a dog cheap?

 

[Kingzilla]

if I had it for less then 24hrs, then yes. If I had a fish for a week, then it died, I would be a lot sadder but my fish die before they even get a name. (I wont name a fish until it's at least 2 days old).

Death is a part of life, tbh, I'm a fisherman with a sport fishing license (as opposed to a conservation fishing license for Ontario). I fish to eat, I only release fish that are illegal to keep, don't taste good, or are to small to waste my time filleting.
If this makes me a bad person, then so be it but regardless, I am still sad about the death of any living thing.

But regardless to all that, I'm trying to get these fish to live and have thrown more then enough money at this problem. I'm still throwing money at this problem but I also have bills to pay so it's a balance. I'm trying to do my best here.