New tank with rapid death rate

[Kingzilla]

I set up a 20gal tank on Saturday with fake plants, decorations, and gravel. Everything was washed, water was conditioned, and I let it run. On Wednesday I went to the store to get some fish to help cycle and of the few options I was presented for the age of the tank, I picked 5 different guppies (the guy recommended 5). AT this point my tank had been running 96hrs, I placed my bag of fish that I just brought home in the tank (about 8pm) and let it float for about 20mins before letting the fish out.

The next morning while getting ready for work (about 7:30am), I checked the tank and found my yellow guppy belly up in the gravel (lived less then 12hrs), my pink flamingo guppy sitting just above the gravel, and the other 3 swimming at the surface. Throughout the day, I was getting texts from my gf as the fish died off 1 by 1 with the last fish dieing just after 5pm.

So I went to a pet store after work and picked up a 6in1+ammonia test kit, went home and everything was fine except the pH was of the charts, I added pH down until the tank was around 7 (yes, I read today to stay away from that stuff but oh well, it's done) and then took a water sample, my ziplock of dead fish, and returned to where i bought them for an exchange. The person tested my water and said it was fine, the fish shouldn't have died and i got another 5 fish at half price.

So i go home, do the ritual again and it seems like i have happy fish by the time they're swimming freely (about 9:30pm lastnight) and go to bed.
Now I'm thinking it was the high pH that killed my fish so it being resolved, everything should be fine, well apparently not... I was getting ready for work thismorning (about 7:30) and deja vu, my yellow guppy is belly up floating around in the tank. I just asked my gf how the fish are doing and my blue guppy is now also dead and one is half dead so ive lost 2.5 of 5 fish in under 24hrs.

So, this brings me to my obvious question, what could be wrong? The only possibility I can think of at the moment is temp as the tank is between 29-30C and the only reason it's that high (it's set to be 25C) is because it got quite warm yesterday and the temp in the house peaked at 29C. Is this hot enough to kill the fish? Or is there some other possibility as to why my second yellow guppy died in less then 12hrs like the first one?

 

[LyndaB]

There are very specific steps to take in order to cycle your tank with fish. Please read this article: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

You were given really bad advice from your lfs. Please stick with us and we'll have your tank up and running with healthy fish in no time.

 

[janky]

It could be a crappy lfs. If you've tested your water you want ammonia at ZERO, as well as nitrites and nitrates. From my understanding ammonia and nitrites are the big ones when it comes to killing fish.
Your acclimating seems a bit off too (no offense).
You don't want to float the bag for 20 minutes and "release" them (I hope you're not letting the bag water mix in with your tank water!!!)
That is only acclimating them to the temperature in the water, when, as you know, there are a lot more variables.
If you drip acclimate them (its incredibly easy/cheap) you will be acclimating them to TANK water completely, not just the temperature.

Still though, if you water parameters are fine then they shouldn't be dying. The temp you have it at is around 88 degrees. That's a LOT for guppies, and probably a huge issue.

Outside of that, I'd say you just got sick fish from the lfs.

Happened to me last week. bought 4 fish, put them in quarantine, and by the end of the weekend they all died. I even took a bold chance and put one in my big aquarium. He died too. The water was fine. The other fish I had in QT from other stores are still alive and healthy. To me, that says the culprit is whatever disease they got at the lfs.

 

[Kingzilla]

ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate were all 0
Mf gf's mother has a fish tank so my gf did it the way her mom does it (which was let it float then dump the bag into the aquarium)

Aside from dropping ice in the aquarium, there's not much I can do about the high temp right now however I will do a partial water change when I get home but I'm guessing that if the temp drops to quick it will hurt the fish.
What level of fluctuation in temp can the guppies handle?

As for sick fish, I got 5 different guppies, each from a different tank. however, 3 of the tanks at the store were sharing a water system, and the other two tanks were sharing a different water system so I can understand group A or group B being sick but not both.


In regards to cycling, I am seeding my tank with used filter media and was already aware of the risks of cycling with fish but am more then willing to do partial water changes and have purchased the required equipment. My intention was to get a liquid test kit (which I will next week) but the store was out of stock so for the time being, I am testing daily with strips.

edit: no, I did not and am not dropping in ice, don't worry

 

[Aspencer]

Hotter the water, the less oxygen for fish to breath...you need something to stir up the surface water.

 

[LyndaB]

Place a small fan so that it can blow across the top of the tank water. That will help cool it down. You can also put ice cubes in a plastic bag or freeze a water bottle and place that in the tank.

 

[Kingzilla]

my external filter produces a good current throughout the entire tank and I have an air pump suitable for a 40gal tank in my 20gal so oxygen should not be a problem.

I'll tell my gf to put a ziplock bag of ice in the water. But this leads back to the question of how rapidly can the water temp drop without hurting the fish?

 

[Sssea]

Kind of an obvious question, but how did you 'wash' the tank and decor? Did you use ANY soap or cleaner of any kind?

 

[janky]

my external filter produces a good current throughout the entire tank and I have an air pump suitable for a 40gal tank in my 20gal so oxygen should not be a problem.

I'll tell my gf to put a ziplock bag of ice in the water. But this leads back to the question of how rapidly can the water temp drop without hurting the fish?

General rule of thumb is 1 degree per hour.
I'd be sketchy with the ice - if you read the "sick fish" section's sticky on euthanasia, one of the methods of humane euthanizing is putting the sick fish in freezing cold water. It shuts down all internal organs due to temp. shock.
(not saying this will happen, just that I'd be paranoid about it)

Then again, I'm new to all this, so take it fwiw - just sharing what I've learned so far.

 

[LyndaB]

For 20 gallons, I'd do 1 ice cube in a zip lock baggie.

 

[Kingzilla]

everything was cleaned with straight water, I made sure not to contaminate with soap.
we wash our hands before and after working with the tank.

as long as the fish doesn't decide to take a nap directly beside the bag of ice, I don't think there should be a temp shock issue.
I'll get my gf to remove the ice though as the temp has dropped over 1C in the last hour. I'll let it stabilize a bit before dropping it some more ice to get to my target of 25C.

I'm now down to 1 fish left though, poor lonely fish... as much as I want him to live, it means I would have to go buy MORE fish to keep him company as I believe the minimum is 3 for school fish.
I'm already looking at a 90% death rate in total... I feel like such an a**hole

 

[janky]

it happens..
I would strongly consider a different lfs. Just my .02

I bought 2 beautiful angelfish and bright apisto cichlids and they died in 2 days The other fish I had in the same tanks are perfectly fine and healthy. I actually had to euthanize the last one ... felt terrible.

The conclusion I came to was that the lfs I got them from must have been "tainted" in those tanks or something, and I will have to look elsewhere.

 

[LyndaB]

I believe the minimum is 3 for school fish.

Many schooling fish should have 8 or more in their schools, 6 is about the bottom limit. Depends on the species.

Don't feel bad, there's a huge learning curve in this hobby. Eventually, it all sinks in.

 

[Teshi]

What dechlorinator are you using?

 

[Kingzilla]

Teshi: I'm using Tetra AquaSafe


My tank is currently down to 26.5C. I still have my Silver Red Tux Guppy but he isn't swimming much and is staying near the surface (for the last 2-3hrs) so I'm losing hope for him but aside from him being lazy, he appears to be fine

I was at Walmart and decided to go down the pet isle because I wanted to get a backup thermometer and saw aquarium salt, it didn't cost much so I bought it. It says its for freshwater fish and improves fish health.
Is this safe to add? I know salt cant be filtered out and won't evaporate so I don't want to take a risk here and have to flush out my whole system on an impulse purchase. Also, will it help my fish or is it a load of bull?

 

[Hobgob]

First off your using test strips which are horribly inaccurate! First things first, get a good test kit and make sure everything is in the normal. Lower your temp down to 76-78. Your lfs is wrong. Did you read the links about cycling a tank? There is great advice in their

 

[Hobgob]

Place a small fan so that it can blow across the top of the tank water. That will help cool it down. You can also put ice cubes in a plastic bag or freeze a water bottle and place that in the tank.

This will also cause the water to evaporate more so keep that in mind

 

[Teshi]

I know it's used in QT's. and that it gets diluted out with water changes. But thats about all I know about adding salt.

 

[Hobgob]

General rule of thumb is 1 degree per hour.
I'd be sketchy with the ice - if you read the "sick fish" section's sticky on euthanasia, one of the methods of humane euthanizing is putting the sick fish in freezing cold water. It shuts down all internal organs due to temp. shock.
(not saying this will happen, just that I'd be paranoid about it)

Then again, I'm new to all this, so take it fwiw - just sharing what I've learned so far.

Yes but that is when their is a huge temperature fluctuation and the fish goes into shock. Te ice cube in the bag will work fine. In my eyes best thing to do is turn the heater Down to your desired temperature and monitor it so it doesn't drop to fast

 

[Kingzilla]

The temperature issue has been resolved and I like I said, I will be getting a proper test kit next week when I get more money. But regardless, the water is fine, its was also tested at the fish store. I'm going to go to another store and pick up some fish right now, can't leave this poor guy all alone.

And if anybody knows about aquarium salt, I did a forum search but kept getting results for salt water aquarium and that's completely different.
Should I put some of it in my tank?