My daughter wanted to start an aquarium so after several weeks of her earning enough money she did it. She has a 10 gallon tank and she ran it for a week and used the tap conditioner and stress coat. She got 4 fish, 2 mollies, a guppy and a tetra. The day after we brought them home, the guppy disappeared. I have not found any remains even in the filter. The male Mollie seems to be the alpha. He was nipping at the tetra. I realize now that we might need another female Mollie. He has stopped nipping at the tetra but the tetra now won't eat and seems kind of stunned. She doesn't have a lot of plants in the tank, just 1 so maybe he doesn't have enough places to hide? Any ideas on how to help our tetra?
New tetra
- Thread starter Bsmitty
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Welcome to the forum.
What do you know about the nitrogen cycle?
Did you cycle the tank before getting fish or are you cycling it now you have fish in the tank? If so, how are you doing this? Or do you know nothing about cycling an aquarium?
Tetras are social fish and need to be kept in groups of their own kind. 1 tetra is going to feel isolated and stressed. 6 tetras seem to the magic number where they start to become more comfortable. More numbers will also help spread out any aggression rather than it being concentrated on one fish.
Depending on the type of tetra you have, you could add to the group in your size tank. Please take note though, that tetras come in all shapes and sizes and your tank isnt big enough to support a group of some types of tetra. Do you know what type yours is? Also take note about my comments about the nitrogen cycle and cycling the tank. Dont add more fish until you are cycled enough for the fish you already have.
Getting some decorations, plants, even artificial ones will help make fish feel more secure.
Onto the mollys If you have a male and female they will breed. And those babies will breed too. Etc etc. These fish are livebearers and the young have a tendency to survive unlike egglaying fish where the eggs tend to get eaten in an aquarium. Im sure you can see where this going. Your tank is going to get overrun with molly babies. Female mollys also are able to store sperm, so even if you seperate them, the molly could very well already be pregnant and be giving birth for up to a year. Keeping a single sex of molly is always a good idea if you dont plan on getting over run with young, male if you want to avoid the risk of babies altogether. Even if you purchase only female mollys, you run the risk its already pregnant when you buy it.
What do you know about the nitrogen cycle?
Did you cycle the tank before getting fish or are you cycling it now you have fish in the tank? If so, how are you doing this? Or do you know nothing about cycling an aquarium?
Tetras are social fish and need to be kept in groups of their own kind. 1 tetra is going to feel isolated and stressed. 6 tetras seem to the magic number where they start to become more comfortable. More numbers will also help spread out any aggression rather than it being concentrated on one fish.
Depending on the type of tetra you have, you could add to the group in your size tank. Please take note though, that tetras come in all shapes and sizes and your tank isnt big enough to support a group of some types of tetra. Do you know what type yours is? Also take note about my comments about the nitrogen cycle and cycling the tank. Dont add more fish until you are cycled enough for the fish you already have.
Getting some decorations, plants, even artificial ones will help make fish feel more secure.
Onto the mollys If you have a male and female they will breed. And those babies will breed too. Etc etc. These fish are livebearers and the young have a tendency to survive unlike egglaying fish where the eggs tend to get eaten in an aquarium. Im sure you can see where this going. Your tank is going to get overrun with molly babies. Female mollys also are able to store sperm, so even if you seperate them, the molly could very well already be pregnant and be giving birth for up to a year. Keeping a single sex of molly is always a good idea if you dont plan on getting over run with young, male if you want to avoid the risk of babies altogether. Even if you purchase only female mollys, you run the risk its already pregnant when you buy it.
Thank you for the reply
Maybe we don't know enough about this nitrogen cycle. You did let the tank sit with a filter on for a week and added the tap conditioner and stress coat. And a few days ago we took the water to be tested at the fish store and they said it was all within range although slightly hard. I really do think the Tetra is feeling lonely so we are going to try to get him a buddy. At the pet store we realized that the Molly's were going to breed and we really don't want them to but my daughter is actually a little excited to try to grow and sell them. So she is aware that she will need to buy a breeder tank.
Maybe we don't know enough about this nitrogen cycle. You did let the tank sit with a filter on for a week and added the tap conditioner and stress coat. And a few days ago we took the water to be tested at the fish store and they said it was all within range although slightly hard. I really do think the Tetra is feeling lonely so we are going to try to get him a buddy. At the pet store we realized that the Molly's were going to breed and we really don't want them to but my daughter is actually a little excited to try to grow and sell them. So she is aware that she will need to buy a breeder tank.
Running a tank for a week and adding water conditioner isnt going to do anything to cycle a tank. And all the store has really done is test tap water that tells them nothing about whether your tank is cycled. As your tank had never had any fish in it, of course the water will show no signs of fish waste. If you have had fish in there, pooping and peeing and the water shows no sign of this, then you are cycled.
Dont add anymore fish until you are cycled. All you will be doing is subjecting more more fish to an uncycled tank.
Ill post a write up on the nitrogen cycle so you can understand whats going on in the tank and a method of cycling a tank with fish.
Any questions, or if you dont understand anything, let us know.
Dont add anymore fish until you are cycled. All you will be doing is subjecting more more fish to an uncycled tank.
Ill post a write up on the nitrogen cycle so you can understand whats going on in the tank and a method of cycling a tank with fish.
Any questions, or if you dont understand anything, let us know.
The nitrogen cycle is the natural processes that go on in your tank that convert ammonia into less harmful substances.
Ammonia gets into your tank through various pathways. Fish waste, decaying uneaten food, and dead, decaying plants are common ammonia sources in an aquarium. Its also possible your tap water is an ammonia source. Chloramine is a common water treatment and when treated with most water conditioners the bond in the chloramine breaks and releases ammonia into the water.
Ammonia can be toxic to fish, depending on how much there is, and what the pH and temperature of your tank water is.
The first stage of the nitrogen cycle is the removal of ammonia. If you have real plants in your tank some of this ammonia will be absorbed as part of their natural growth. Generally though ammonia is consumed by denitrifying bacteria that lives mostly on your filter media. These bacteria consume the ammonia and produce nitrite. Unfortunately nitrite is pretty much as toxic to fish as ammonia.
The second stage of the nitrogen cycle is the removal of nitrite. A different denitrifying bacteria will consume the nitrite and produce nitrate. Nitrate is much less harmful than ammonia and nitrite, and for most aquariums the nitrogen cycle ends there. Excess nitrate is removed through your regular water changes.
A further stage of the nitrogen cycle can also happen, but its difficult to remove all the nitrate from a typical freshwater aquarium. Plants will absorb some nitrate in a similar manner to how it absorbs ammonia to grow. There are also nitrifying bacteria that consumes nitrate and gives off nitrogen gas which will simply offgas from your aquarium. This nitrifying bacteria is difficult to grow in freshwater aquarium.
“Cycling” a tank is the process you go through to grow denitrifying bacteria in your aquarium to consume ammonia and nitrite. You are said to be “cycled” when you have enough bacteria to consume all the ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces and turns all of it into nitrate. If you test the water of a cycled tank you should see 0 ammonia and nitrite and some nitrate.
Ammonia gets into your tank through various pathways. Fish waste, decaying uneaten food, and dead, decaying plants are common ammonia sources in an aquarium. Its also possible your tap water is an ammonia source. Chloramine is a common water treatment and when treated with most water conditioners the bond in the chloramine breaks and releases ammonia into the water.
Ammonia can be toxic to fish, depending on how much there is, and what the pH and temperature of your tank water is.
The first stage of the nitrogen cycle is the removal of ammonia. If you have real plants in your tank some of this ammonia will be absorbed as part of their natural growth. Generally though ammonia is consumed by denitrifying bacteria that lives mostly on your filter media. These bacteria consume the ammonia and produce nitrite. Unfortunately nitrite is pretty much as toxic to fish as ammonia.
The second stage of the nitrogen cycle is the removal of nitrite. A different denitrifying bacteria will consume the nitrite and produce nitrate. Nitrate is much less harmful than ammonia and nitrite, and for most aquariums the nitrogen cycle ends there. Excess nitrate is removed through your regular water changes.
A further stage of the nitrogen cycle can also happen, but its difficult to remove all the nitrate from a typical freshwater aquarium. Plants will absorb some nitrate in a similar manner to how it absorbs ammonia to grow. There are also nitrifying bacteria that consumes nitrate and gives off nitrogen gas which will simply offgas from your aquarium. This nitrifying bacteria is difficult to grow in freshwater aquarium.
“Cycling” a tank is the process you go through to grow denitrifying bacteria in your aquarium to consume ammonia and nitrite. You are said to be “cycled” when you have enough bacteria to consume all the ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces and turns all of it into nitrate. If you test the water of a cycled tank you should see 0 ammonia and nitrite and some nitrate.
To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.
A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels.
Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. Seachem Prime is a water conditioner that will also detoxify some ammonia for a day or two, so is a good choice for a water conditioner while cycling a tank with fish.
You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
In ideal circumstances you should be starting a fishless cycle with a low bioload (number of fish). 1 small fish per 10 gallons/40 litres is a good number of fish, but this can be tweaked a little for fish that are social and don’t do well on their own. Ideally a hardy type of fish. You may have fully stocked (or overstocked) your tank before you knew about cycling. In these circumstances, if its not possible to return fish, you will have to make the best of it.
If you haven’t already done so, add your fish. Acclimate them to the water in your tank before doing so.
Feed lightly to start with. Daily as much as is eaten in 2 minutes, or as much as is eaten in 3 minutes every 2 days. You can increase to full feedings if you are confident your parameters aren’t getting too elevated too quickly and water changes don’t become a daily thing.
Start to regularly test the water for ammonia and nitrite. At least daily. Depending on your bioload you could start to see ammonia quite quickly. Nitrite will likely take a little longer to appear.
Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm by changing water whenever your water parameters exceed this target. 0.5ppm combined is a level of waste that is sufficient for your cycle to establish but relatively safe for your fish.
If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrite (0.5ppm combined) then leave things be. If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.25ppm nitrite (0.75ppm combined) then change 1/3 of the water. If you see 0.25ppm ammonia and 0.75ppm nitrite (1.0ppm combined) then change 1/2 the water. If water parameters get worse than these levels it may require multiple daily 50% water changes to maintain safe water conditions. This is more likely to happen with a fully stocked tank.
Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.
Over time the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change to maintain your ammonia + nitrite combined target will reduce. You can also start testing for nitrate and should see this rising. If you are finding the ammonia and nitrite in your tests are consistently low, and you aren’t already fully stocked, you can add a few more fish. It may take a few weeks to get to this point.
Once you add a few more fish, continue to regularly test the water and continue to change water if you exceed the 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite target. With added bioload the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change may increase again until your cycle has caught up. Again once you are consistently seeing low ammonia and nitrite you can add some more fish. Rinse and repeat with testing, water changes, and adding fish when safe to do so until you are fully stocked.
You can then cut back on water changes to control nitrate only. Typically you want to keep nitrate no higher than 40ppm, but I would recommend changing some water every 2 weeks even if your water test says you don’t need to.
A fish in cycle from an empty tank to fully stocked can take several months.
A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.
Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.
A fish in cycle uses fish waste as an ammonia source and regular water changes are undertaken to ensure that water parameters are maintained at relatively non toxic levels.
Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. Seachem Prime is a water conditioner that will also detoxify some ammonia for a day or two, so is a good choice for a water conditioner while cycling a tank with fish.
You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
In ideal circumstances you should be starting a fishless cycle with a low bioload (number of fish). 1 small fish per 10 gallons/40 litres is a good number of fish, but this can be tweaked a little for fish that are social and don’t do well on their own. Ideally a hardy type of fish. You may have fully stocked (or overstocked) your tank before you knew about cycling. In these circumstances, if its not possible to return fish, you will have to make the best of it.
If you haven’t already done so, add your fish. Acclimate them to the water in your tank before doing so.
Feed lightly to start with. Daily as much as is eaten in 2 minutes, or as much as is eaten in 3 minutes every 2 days. You can increase to full feedings if you are confident your parameters aren’t getting too elevated too quickly and water changes don’t become a daily thing.
Start to regularly test the water for ammonia and nitrite. At least daily. Depending on your bioload you could start to see ammonia quite quickly. Nitrite will likely take a little longer to appear.
Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm by changing water whenever your water parameters exceed this target. 0.5ppm combined is a level of waste that is sufficient for your cycle to establish but relatively safe for your fish.
If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.0ppm nitrite (0.5ppm combined) then leave things be. If you see 0.5ppm ammonia and 0.25ppm nitrite (0.75ppm combined) then change 1/3 of the water. If you see 0.25ppm ammonia and 0.75ppm nitrite (1.0ppm combined) then change 1/2 the water. If water parameters get worse than these levels it may require multiple daily 50% water changes to maintain safe water conditions. This is more likely to happen with a fully stocked tank.
Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.
Over time the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change to maintain your ammonia + nitrite combined target will reduce. You can also start testing for nitrate and should see this rising. If you are finding the ammonia and nitrite in your tests are consistently low, and you aren’t already fully stocked, you can add a few more fish. It may take a few weeks to get to this point.
Once you add a few more fish, continue to regularly test the water and continue to change water if you exceed the 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite target. With added bioload the frequency of water changes and amount you need to change may increase again until your cycle has caught up. Again once you are consistently seeing low ammonia and nitrite you can add some more fish. Rinse and repeat with testing, water changes, and adding fish when safe to do so until you are fully stocked.
You can then cut back on water changes to control nitrate only. Typically you want to keep nitrate no higher than 40ppm, but I would recommend changing some water every 2 weeks even if your water test says you don’t need to.
A fish in cycle from an empty tank to fully stocked can take several months.
A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.
Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.
Thank you
Thank you so much for all the information. We bought a test kit and like you predicted our ammonia was high. Nitrites we're good so I am guessing that means we are still in the early part of the cycle. I've tried to explain this all to my 7 year old and I think she has learned a lot of science. We also put in some more plants to help the tetra and he seems a bit happier. Thank you so much!
Thank you so much for all the information. We bought a test kit and like you predicted our ammonia was high. Nitrites we're good so I am guessing that means we are still in the early part of the cycle. I've tried to explain this all to my 7 year old and I think she has learned a lot of science. We also put in some more plants to help the tetra and he seems a bit happier. Thank you so much!
I think this serves as a great example of why taking a water sample to the fish store and having them declare all is good is kind of pointless.
To someone with no knowledge that test of essentially tap water with water conditioner shows everything is fine. The water is safe. But the test without context of knowing whether the water has ever had ammonia in it doesnt tell you anything useful. A more knowledgeable person could look at a test and see all zeros and surmise that the tank isnt cycled because there should be some nitrate in a sample from a cycled tank. But my tap water has some nitrate in it, so that same knowledgeable person could look at a test of my tap water with zero ammonia + nirite and some nitrate and wrongly assume that its from a cycled tank.
All this demonstrates that fish store employees will tell you what you need to hear to get you to buy stuff.
What they should be telling you is the water is safe for fish, because it is. But, then explain to you how to cycle a tank safely with those fish rather than just let you work out for yourself why your fish are dying.
To someone with no knowledge that test of essentially tap water with water conditioner shows everything is fine. The water is safe. But the test without context of knowing whether the water has ever had ammonia in it doesnt tell you anything useful. A more knowledgeable person could look at a test and see all zeros and surmise that the tank isnt cycled because there should be some nitrate in a sample from a cycled tank. But my tap water has some nitrate in it, so that same knowledgeable person could look at a test of my tap water with zero ammonia + nirite and some nitrate and wrongly assume that its from a cycled tank.
All this demonstrates that fish store employees will tell you what you need to hear to get you to buy stuff.
What they should be telling you is the water is safe for fish, because it is. But, then explain to you how to cycle a tank safely with those fish rather than just let you work out for yourself why your fish are dying.
Further questions
Thank you all so much already. I have a few more questions. We have been regularly testing our tank and every time the ammonia level has been about 1. So we have swapped out half of the water. We have done this about every 12 hours. I became curious and tested our tap water. The water had an ammonia level of .5ppm. How do I get the ammonia level down when my water is a source of it? Later today I am going to go pick up some of the Tetra Smart start and put that into my tank. Since I have been checking the water every 12 hours should I let that sit in my tank longer than that? I don't want to take out good bacteria that I just put in. Also our pH is a little high in our water and I hadn't been worried about that because we are changing it out so often but I'm wondering if that is contributing to our problem. However if I put pH down in the tank and I changed the water 12 hours later would it work? Thank you all for your help.
Thank you all so much already. I have a few more questions. We have been regularly testing our tank and every time the ammonia level has been about 1. So we have swapped out half of the water. We have done this about every 12 hours. I became curious and tested our tap water. The water had an ammonia level of .5ppm. How do I get the ammonia level down when my water is a source of it? Later today I am going to go pick up some of the Tetra Smart start and put that into my tank. Since I have been checking the water every 12 hours should I let that sit in my tank longer than that? I don't want to take out good bacteria that I just put in. Also our pH is a little high in our water and I hadn't been worried about that because we are changing it out so often but I'm wondering if that is contributing to our problem. However if I put pH down in the tank and I changed the water 12 hours later would it work? Thank you all for your help.
What you are probably seeing is your water is treated with chloramine rather than the more common chlorine treatment. Chloramine is chemically bonded chlorine and ammonia, most water conditioners will break the bond in the chloramine, releasing chlorine and ammonia. Your water conditioner will also treat the released chlorine and the nitrogen cycle quickly takes care of the ammonia.
However, in an uncycled tank the water companys use of chloramine is an added difficulty. The ammonia isnt removed through the normal processes that happen in a cycled tank.
A few points to consider.
If you are doing 50% water changes at 1ppm ammonia with water from the tap thats 0.5ppm ammonia, then the result is going to be in the region of 0.75ppm ammonia. Thats obviously still better than 1ppm. If you werent doing those 12 hourly water changes, that 1ppm in the tank could be say 2ppm after 24 hours, in which case the 50% water change would result in about 1.25ppm ammonia. So doing those water changes are still important, but obviously not as effective as they would be if your tap water was ammonia free.
As suggested, using Seachem Prime as your water conditioner will detoxify a small amount of ammonia for a day or two. This could be an important consideration when selecting which water conditioner to use while cycling a tank, and more so if your tap water is also introducing ammonia at every water change. I would consider use of Prime as your water conditioner long term as it will detoxify the ammonia from your tap at every water change.
Im going to complicate your 7 year olds science lesson a little. Your test kit for ammonia doesnt actually measure ammonia. If you look on the packaging, it actually measures total ammonia nitrogen (TAN). This is the total of free ammonia and ammonium. Its only the free ammonia side of things thats harmful to your fish. The proportion of free ammonia and ammonium that is present in the TAN you are measuring is pH and temperature dependant. The higher these are, the more of your TAN is free ammonia and therefore the TAN is more toxic. At typical aquarium temperatures you need to quite a high pH for the levels of TAN you are detecting to become toxic.
What pH are you seeing? To give you some comfort i wouldnt worry about 1ppm TAN unless your pH is in the high 8s.
As to whether the 12 hourly water changes would remove any bacterial product you are adding, then yes it probably will. Personally, as a one off, add your safestart after a water change, then dont do a water change for 24 hours and then redose safestart if you have any left. As mentioned above, these products arent the magic bullet they claim to be, but might help a little. I wouldnt sink a considerable amount of money into them. Your tank will cycle with or without them, it just "might" cycle a little quicker with them.
However, in an uncycled tank the water companys use of chloramine is an added difficulty. The ammonia isnt removed through the normal processes that happen in a cycled tank.
A few points to consider.
If you are doing 50% water changes at 1ppm ammonia with water from the tap thats 0.5ppm ammonia, then the result is going to be in the region of 0.75ppm ammonia. Thats obviously still better than 1ppm. If you werent doing those 12 hourly water changes, that 1ppm in the tank could be say 2ppm after 24 hours, in which case the 50% water change would result in about 1.25ppm ammonia. So doing those water changes are still important, but obviously not as effective as they would be if your tap water was ammonia free.
As suggested, using Seachem Prime as your water conditioner will detoxify a small amount of ammonia for a day or two. This could be an important consideration when selecting which water conditioner to use while cycling a tank, and more so if your tap water is also introducing ammonia at every water change. I would consider use of Prime as your water conditioner long term as it will detoxify the ammonia from your tap at every water change.
Im going to complicate your 7 year olds science lesson a little. Your test kit for ammonia doesnt actually measure ammonia. If you look on the packaging, it actually measures total ammonia nitrogen (TAN). This is the total of free ammonia and ammonium. Its only the free ammonia side of things thats harmful to your fish. The proportion of free ammonia and ammonium that is present in the TAN you are measuring is pH and temperature dependant. The higher these are, the more of your TAN is free ammonia and therefore the TAN is more toxic. At typical aquarium temperatures you need to quite a high pH for the levels of TAN you are detecting to become toxic.
What pH are you seeing? To give you some comfort i wouldnt worry about 1ppm TAN unless your pH is in the high 8s.
As to whether the 12 hourly water changes would remove any bacterial product you are adding, then yes it probably will. Personally, as a one off, add your safestart after a water change, then dont do a water change for 24 hours and then redose safestart if you have any left. As mentioned above, these products arent the magic bullet they claim to be, but might help a little. I wouldnt sink a considerable amount of money into them. Your tank will cycle with or without them, it just "might" cycle a little quicker with them.
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So we just retested. The pH was 7.4 and the ammonia was 1ppm. The nitrate was 0. We switched out half of the water and added the smart start. We will give it 24 hours and see where we are. Our fish seem to be doing well aside from the tetra who is still standoffish. I'm beginning to think that may be his personality or maybe he is sick from the pet store. We shall wait it out. Myself and my daughter have learned a ton about water quality though.
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