Newbie - advice wanted!

[sarahsunshine]

Hi all,

I'm a Noob...

I usually research the heck out of stuff before I do anything, why didn't I this time?

So, I have a 10 gallon tall tank. We had a bunch of feeder fish that had been in an outdoor pond all summer and thrived. I brought them in so they wouldn't freeze, and they all went belly-up. Ooops. Some we'd had for several years and were quite large.

A week later (tank left running), we bought 4 neon tetras, 2 tiger barbs, and 2 calico goldfish...

For some reason, they did just fine, EXCEPT the barbs were picking on the calicos a little (not much really). I did a smidge of research and decided that barbs tend to school so if we had more space, we could have 5/6 barbs, and likely less trauma for the calicos. I figured if we had a bigger tank, I could get a couple more tetras too...

So we got a used 25 gallon tank off Kijiji, I washed it out with hot water in the bathtub, put it in place, put rocks on the bottom, put in our plastic plants (from the old set-up), made our small shelter/tunnel out of rocks (cleaned and used before), put in 1/2 the water from the 10 gallon, filled the rest up from the tap (checked temperature with thermometer), transferred fish, and topped up with the rest of the 10 gallon water (this was over 4 hours.

Result: tetras and barbs dead. Calicos hung on the bottom for a couple hours, seem happy since then.

So now, I realize there's a lot more to keeping fish than giving them food and water.

Can anyone guide me in how to start over with the 25 gallon tank? Our 10yo and I would like to see some tetras back, and I do like the barbs, but realize now that they may not be compatible... and it may be a while before the tank is ready for them. I just want to keep the fish we have alive (and preferably happy) until then.

I think I have to get a new filter. The filter that came with the tank is huge (for a 70 gallon tank) and I was worried that that may be a cause of our problem, so currently the 10 gallon filter is back in there.

Next, the water is a little murky...I suppose I should get a proper test kit (after reading the newbie thread), and wondering if anyone has a suggestion as to what type of filter I should get, and then how to proceed.

 

[mfdrookie516]

Welcome to AA... here are a couple articles, might explain a few things... http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...ks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/Page1.html and http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ady-have-fish-what-now-116287.html#post983258 ... first, sounds like the tank wasnt cycled... second, sounds like it was overstocked quite a bit...

 

[sarahsunshine]

Thanks!

I'm still at 2 calicos... I'm guessing they're pretty hardy.

I've now added some cycle bacteria, the water's cleared, and I've got test kits for the ammonia and nitrites. partial WC coming up (in large number I believe).

I'll post test results as soon as I can.

OK, my ammonia levels are at 0, and my NitrIte levels are hideously high, even after a large PWC... I'll do another change in an hour or so and hope that I can see a difference in the test results!

I would like to add some live plants. What are the easiest ones to keep?

 

[supradupafast]

Depends what looks of plants you are looking to get?
What kind of substrate do you have?

Anubias, Java Fern, and moss are really low tech and low maintenance.
You don't need CO2 and you can get away with stock lighting.
Btw, I still recommend at least Root Tabs (about 2 per 10gal , lasts 3 mths) and a dose of Flourish Liquid Fertz with each water change.

Welcome to AA
Great place to start. Ask questions.. Don't be shy

 

[Lynae]

I don't know much, but I know you shouldn't be adding cycle bacteria, if you already have two calico goldfish. Goldfish produce major amounts of waste, which is what you want (to cycle), it creates Ammonia, which triggers bacteria growth ( Nitrates + Nitrites ) that EAT the ammonia. Because Ammonia is bad for living things.
Also, tap water will kill all of this bacteria, so nothing from the tank should ever be rinsed in the sink. You should get a bucket, filled with tank water, and rinse whatever needed that way.
You will need to purchase a Dechlorinator, it removes chlorine and chloramine from your tap water, which you use to refill your tank.
NEVER refill your tank with chlorinated (tap water), its burns their little gills and causes them to go belly up.
Read up more in the article section on this site.
Or just google 'cycling with fish'.
Trying to help!

 

[Blueiz]

I don't know much, but I know you shouldn't be adding cycle bacteria, if you already have two calico goldfish. Goldfish produce major amounts of waste, which is what you want (to cycle), it creates Ammonia, which triggers bacteria growth ( Nitrates + Nitrites ) that EAT the ammonia. Because Ammonia is bad for living things.
Also, tap water will kill all of this bacteria, so nothing from the tank should ever be rinsed in the sink. You should get a bucket, filled with tank water, and rinse whatever needed that way.
You will need to purchase a Dechlorinator, it removes chlorine and chloramine from your tap water, which you use to refill your tank.
NEVER refill your tank with chlorinated (tap water), its burns their little gills and causes them to go belly up.
Read up more in the article section on this site.
Or just google 'cycling with fish'.
Trying to help!

A little clarification here. The cycle bacteria is supposidely bacteria in a bottle that will instantly cycle your tank, it does not work. The ammonia that is produced in the tank from fish respiration, poo, uneaten food, and anything else that will decay in the tank is eaten by nitirifying bacteria, which turns the ammonia into niTRITES, a second bacteria convert the niTRITES into niTRATES. NiTRATES are the end product of the nitrogen cycle and must be removed through water changes as there is no bacteria, or magic wand to rid your tank of these

If you are on a municipal water system, you will need to use water conditioner to remove the chlorine and or chloramines from your tap, also add the conditioner to the tank BEFORE you put water from the tap in. If you have your own well in your back yard, or get your water from a community well, water conditioner is used at your own preferenece, IMO.

Supradupafast has some great plant suggestions. One thing to remember though is your goldies may take a liking to eating them, and uprooting planted ones. You can put plants in pots, then put them in your tank to prevent this, or use fast growing plants that float such as water sprite, hornwort and anacharis..just a few more plant suggestions, Im sure more will come along

 

[jsoong]

Goldies & plants .... you are looking for a challenge!

It is hit & miss with goldies as to what plants will work. Some fish will leave plants alone, others will eat everything in sight. <Or they will change their mind ... I had a hygro jungle (at least 1/8 of the tank) that was OK for months, then one weekend, someone decided that it is tasty & the whole thing was eaten within days.>

If you have only stock light, my suggestions would be for Anubias & Java ferns. Hornwort might also work. You want tough/unpalatable plants that the fish won't eat. And Anubias & Java ferns can be tied down to rocks or driftwood so they can't be uprooted. The trick is to put in lots of plants at once so the grazing is spread out & the plants are spared.

However, you are still in the middle of cycling, it would be best to wait till the tank settles before adding more stuff. <Although healthy plants will be great during cycling, unhealthy/dying plants will pollute the tank even more.>

In addition to doing pwcs to keep the nitrites down, you might consider adding salt. Low level of salt will protect the fish from nitrite posioning. <Only 0.05% or so is needed.> Nitrite binds to hemoglobin, preventing O2 uptake. The fish will act as if there is no air ... gasping at surface, rapid breathing & later stages, lethargy. If you see any of that, act fast. Increasing water circulation/splashing, adding an airstone, etc also might help during the nitrite phase.

Finally, the 2 calicos are pretty much all a 25 gal can support. I would not add any more fish, esp. not tropicals (tetra/barbs). There are many incompatibilities with goldies & tropicals that you are likely to get into trouble. If you really want some more fish, AND you are willing to monitor the tank & do lots of pwc's, AND the calicos are still small, then you may consider a small school of white cloud minnows after the tank had completely cycled.

 

[sarahsunshine]

Thanks for the help and suggestions!

I need some clarification. I've used a water conditioner, but I added it to the water in the bucket I added, and at that concentration. I've seen some posts that say to add to the whole tank. Now I hear that it should be added to the tank before the water... What's the cottect way? I read the entire bottle and it doesn't say!

In terms of cycling, it seems ammonia isn't my problem, but nitrites are (currently)... we'll see on the next test if this is till true.

Meanwhile fish seem happy...

NEW PLAN:
1. Get cycle going with 2 goldies in 20g tank, then do same in 10g tank using medium from 20g to establish cycling.
2. Swap goldies out to 10g tank (and take it to my work office).
3. Establish some plants (of unknown variety as yet, but something that will do OK with tropical fish - new suggestion for easy compatibility?)
4. Plan a tropical tank with some colourful and hopefully somewhat active fish (tetras, gourami, and some others)

Amidst all that, I'll need lots of PWCs!!!


You guys are great! Thanks for your help!

 

[mfdrookie516]

if you use a python, you need to add the water conditioner to the volume of the tank... if you use buckets, you just add enough in each bucket to dechlorinate the water....

now your plan will work, but why use fish? there are so many pro's on the fishless cycle vs cycling with fish. Not only does it save the fish from being poisoned, but it also takes alot less time, and you build up a larger bacterial colony when fishless cycling...

 

[dkpate]

Just wanted to pop in and say that I used a bacterial starter on my betta tank and it was cycled in a week, which is what the package said. It was dry stuff in a little canister, called Biozyme. So it is not true that NONE of them work.

 

[sarahsunshine]

if you use a python, you need to add the water conditioner to the volume of the tank... if you use buckets, you just add enough in each bucket to dechlorinate the water....

Good! That's what I've been doing!

now your plan will work, but why use fish? there are so many pro's on the fishless cycle vs cycling with fish. Not only does it save the fish from being poisoned, but it also takes alot less time, and you build up a larger bacterial colony when fishless cycling...

But my 10yo and I would be so sad to release the fish...

Meantime, I'm trying to find someone with a healthy tank who can give me some substrate.... hoping that that will speed things up.

 

[jsoong]

Ok, if you are planning a planted tank with tropicals, that is a different story. The main determinant of what plant you can keep would be the light you have. In addition to the 3 goldies safe plants I mentioned, you can also try crypts of all kinds & Java moss. If you ahve more than stock light, you have more choices.

 

[sarahsunshine]

If you ahve more than stock light, you have more choices.

OK, so I assume 'stock lighting' are the two 25W bulbs I have that came with the tank... Can I just change the bulbs for better lighting? Say something around the 5700K range?

Also, I finally have seen a SLIGHT change in NitrItes (it's down to 1.6ppm)... Wow! I think I need to change the water 3x a day to keep it under 3.3mg! I'll try for a couple more times today, but with a 6mo old around it's tough to get through 1 PWC without her getting too angry... Plus, if the fish are surviving (look quite happy) above 3.3PPM (that's after a 50% change), I think they can wait a couple hours between changes... especially since I've got it down to 1.6 right now (after 2 changes).

Do you think that once I get it down to <0.3, I should be able to get away with 1 70% change per day?

I surely hope so. That's manageable!

 

[mfdrookie516]

OK, so I assume 'stock lighting' are the two 25W bulbs I have that came with the tank... Can I just change the bulbs for better lighting? Say something around the 5700K range?

so you have two 25w lights on a 25g tank? changing the bulb wont give you more light, but the kelvin rating on the bulb will determine whether the bulb is best for plants or not.

 

[sarahsunshine]

so you have two 25w lights on a 25g tank? changing the bulb wont give you more light, but the kelvin rating on the bulb will determine whether the bulb is best for plants or not.

Yeah, that's why I wondered whether the K rating was sufficient... is it? What's the best k-rating?

 

[mfdrookie516]

i have a phillips daylight bulb in my 10g planted... all the plants are doing well, especially considering i only have a 15w light over a 10g tank... imo the phillips or ge daylight bulbs from lowes or home depot are your best bet... they are 10,000k bulbs, and only a couple dollars vs the "aquarium plant bulbs" which are usually closer to $20... i think 6700k-10,000k is best for plants

 

[jsoong]

I use Phillips Daylight as well. Works just a well as the pricier Aquarium plant bulbs.

Those 25W's are they incandescent or fluorescent? or power compacts? If they are PC's you have medium light over the tank & can consider things like Vals, hygro, etc.

 

[discus_lover]

Discus Fish Care Secrets

you may read this blog...there you can get info about this...

 

[sarahsunshine]

Those 25W's are they incandescent or fluorescent? or power compacts? If they are PC's you have medium light over the tank & can consider things like Vals, hygro, etc.

Incandescent. I'll look for some compact fuorescents next time I get to Home Depot. I've never seen them in the long skinny aquarium light shape, though. I hope I can find some!


I'm getting ahead on the Nitrites Finally!!!!! I'm down to 0.3ppm!!!!! Yippee!

I think I can stay on top of it with 1 PWC/day for now... Maybe I'll even be able to start testing before I change the water to see if it needs it/how much needs changing!

I think I've also become an expert at changing it quickly! What took me 1/2 an hour now takes me 5-10 minutes, and I make hardly any mess with the bucket! WOOHOO!

I hope I've found a lead on aquarium bacteria... but that's 2 leads that "just changed their filters this yesterday/this week"! I hope this one works out, otherwise, it's just time and more water changes...

 

[jsoong]

Incandescent won't grow plants (well.) All the WPG's calculations are based on fluorescents. That 50W incandescent is like having a 8W PC over that tank, totally inadaquate.

Your best bet is to find a compact flourescent that will fit into the canopy. Some people have found that the mini-spiral will fit. Walmart & Canadian Tires used to have Daylight CF's in the linear shape, but they seemed to have disappeared. Ikea still have the linear CF's, but they don't have K rating marked. But if those fit, they will be better than the incandescent.

If you have no room in the canopy to fit any of the CF's, and you can't DIY the fixture to make them fit, you'll have to look into upgrades - either a new fixture, or a retrofit kit. <The Power Compact retrofits are most economical, although T5-HO's are all the rage right now.>