Off to a bad start ...

[Zenobia]

I got a ten gallon starter tank on Thursday along with 2 fantail goldfish.
Unfortunately, I didn't know what I was getting myself into and didn't do any research on tanks or fish until after I had bought and set everything up.
As expected, the 2 poor fantail goldfish died Saturday night and Saturday morning.

So, now I have a slightly cloudy, empty 10 gallon tank ... And Im not sure where to go from here.

Today Im going out to buy the API Freshwater Master Test Kit to see where everything is in the tank (I've already got the little Jungle Quick Dip test strips, but those don't help too much) and a few books on how to maintain and possibly start over a new tank.

My questions are:

- Is the tank still cycling?
- Can I add a bit of fish flake food to the tank each day to keep it going through the cycle or should I get some pure ammonia?
- Should I get another fish or two to add back into the tank?
- Are Zebra Danios an acceptable fish to add?
- If the tank is still cycling, can I add a few plants to help the process? Or will that just cause more problems?
- Should I just empty the whole tank out and start over again?

I know that I started off pretty bad, but I'd like to correct my mistakes if possible and start anew. Keeping an aquarium is a lot more exciting than I thought it'd be and Im looking forward to learning new things about it all.

 

[fort384]

Sorry to hear about your fish... my responses to your questions are below...

- Is the tank still cycling?
Yes... for now, until the ammonia runs out as food source for the bacteria.

- Can I add a bit of fish flake food to the tank each day to keep it going through the cycle or should I get some pure ammonia?
I would go for the ammonia instead of the fishfood... the fishfood can cause phosphates etc which could lead to algae outbreak. Both methods can work though.

- Should I get another fish or two to add back into the tank?
I wouldn't... I would do fishless cycling.

- Are Zebra Danios an acceptable fish to add?
Sure! A school of 6 or 8 zebras would work ok in your tank, and be a much better choice than the goldies. Do you have a heater? They like warmer water than gold fish.

- If the tank is still cycling, can I add a few plants to help the process? Or will that just cause more problems?
It depends... what kind of light do you have on the tank. Real plants require some care to work out in a tank... you can't really just plop them in and expect them to grow. Granted, there are a lot of low light plant options that require very little maintenance, but you have to at least have the minimum amount of light to get them live. Most stock aquarium hoods are insufficient for growing live plants. However, live plants can speed a cycle.... just be careful if you are going to buy real plants from petsmart or petco... most of the plants they sell are not true aquatic plants (they are bog plants that are supposed to grow half in the water, half out). they will rot and die in your tank if fully submerged.

- Should I just empty the whole tank out and start over again?
That would probably be the best bet... empty the tank, start over using pure ammonia to fishless cycle the tank.

 

[warthog76za]

Sorry to hear that but believe me the members here are a GREAT help and Im sure they will give the best advice around. i took most of my advice from the people here and all I can say is, i have a lot of jolly fish swimming around in my aquarium.

 

[Zenobia]

So, I've decided to just leave the tank as is and let it run it's course. I feel like the cycling process has already begun and I don't really want to interrupt anything.

I got the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and tested everything:

pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm

The pH, nitrite and nitrate were all kinda expected, but the ammonia reading at 0 is a bit confusing. The water is currently "milky" .. Shouldn't that be a sign of some ammonia at least?

I guess it's still a bit early to really worry about much ... I mean, it's only been 3 days so far.

Gotta say I do love that fancy test kit, it's very useful!

Also, as for using pure ammonia ... Is there a specific brand that's reccomended? Where can I find it?

I also bought a stand for the tank, since it's currently sitting on one of my bookcases, which again, probably wasn't the best thing to do.

Thanks again for the advice, it's really been very helpful!

 

[HN1]

Sorry for your losses.

The good news is that now you can go back and do it right!

Letting your tank cycle is a great idea! Fish are very much harmed by ammonia and nitrites which are produced in fish wastes and food decay. Your tank will need an ammonia source to cycle though. Check out the stickies and articles here and ask away.

 

[XimeD]

ACE janitorial strength ammonia is a good one, you want "pure" 10% ammonium hydroxide solution with no detergents, surfactants or fragrances. If you shake it and it foams then its not safe to use.

This is agood article on fishless cycling:
Tips and tricks for your fastest fishless cycle!

Another good thread:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/common-newbie-pitfalls-67468.html

Good luck and welcome to the hobby!

 

[Zenobia]

I just spent most of the evening driving around town trying to find places that sell "pure" ammonia. Turns out, there's not a single store around here that sells it (or maybe there is, but I haven't found them yet!).

I checked 5 different places: Grandpa's Hardware (ACE), Rural King, Home Depot, Lowes and Walmart.

You'd think Grandpa's Hardware would have something, right? Since they're owned by ACE Hardware, apparently. But nope!

Although I checked online and ACE Hardware does indeed sell it, but Im not really up for buying a 15 pack of 32oz bottles of ammonia.

So, I went back to the pet store that I got the tank and all the other aquarium supplies from, and bought a heater (since I didn't have one) and some shrimp.

If I can't use ammonia for my fishless cycle, I guess shrimp and fish flake food will have to do.

 

[Jason7894561230]

The cloudy water is the start of a cycle its like bacteria is swarming. So thats good. The shrimp and fish food will do but keep looking for ammonia. Good luck!

 

[XimeD]

Yeah that's too bad you couldn't find it, the one I have says on the label "ACE Ammonia Janitorial strenght, contains 10% ammonium hydroxide" If you asked for "pure" ammonia they might not have understood you right, I got mine from an ACE owned hardware store too, for the sake of being accurate pure ammonia or NH3 is actually a gas, it forms NH4OH or ammonium hydroxide when dissolved in water.

I guess the raw shrimp or flake food will have to do. Hopefully other people that have used that particular method can offer advice.

 

[Zenobia]

Yeah that's too bad you couldn't find it, the one I have says on the label "ACE Ammonia Janitorial strenght, contains 10% ammonium hydroxide" If you asked for "pure" ammonia they might not have understood you right, I got mine from an ACE owned hardware store too, for the sake of being accurate pure ammonia or NH3 is actually a gas, it forms NH4OH or ammonium hydroxide when dissolved in water.

I guess the raw shrimp or flake food will have to do. Hopefully other people that have used that particular method can offer advice.

Hmm, you're probably right. Honestly, all I did was ask and didn't bother to really look around. Serves me right though, I guess.
I'll go back tomorrow and actually look around myself to see if they have it or not.

It was a bit funny asking the employee's of each store if they had industrial strength or "pure" ammonia.

Most responded with a "no" and then asked why I needed it, with my response as, "for an aquarium that I have".

I got a lot of confused looks and a few questions like, "doesn't ammonia kill the fish?" (I always forgot to mention that there were no fish in the tank)

Most of the time I didn't feel like explaining why I needed the ammonia any further.

With all that said, I do have a couple of questions about tap water:

- Can you use filtered water in the tank instead? Or would you still need to use a water conditioner on the filtered tap water?
- Can you use bottled water?

 

[XimeD]

Hmm, you're probably right. Honestly, all I did was ask and didn't bother to really look around. Serves me right though, I guess.
I'll go back tomorrow and actually look around myself to see if they have it or not.

It was a bit funny asking the employee's of each store if they had industrial strength or "pure" ammonia.

Most responded with a "no" and then asked why I needed it, with my response as, "for an aquarium that I have".

I got a lot of confused looks and a few questions like, "doesn't ammonia kill the fish?" (I always forgot to mention that there were no fish in the tank)

Most of the time I didn't feel like explaining why I needed the ammonia any further.

With all that said, I do have a couple of questions about tap water:

- Can you use filtered water in the tank instead? Or would you still need to use a water conditioner on the filtered tap water?
- Can you use bottled water?

Yeah, I got the same about the ammonia killing the fish when I bought mine. Shake the bottle and if it foams then its no good.

About the filtered water, what filter are we talking about? If if is RO/DI then I would say no because that will also remove things you want from the water (like buffers and trace minerals). Bottled water might get expensive. What is wrong with your tap water? Prime is a really good and cheap dechlorinator, to give you an idea a $16 500mL bottle has lasted me more than 3 months now and I do weekly PWCs on both my 20gal and my 75gal.

 

[Zenobia]

Yeah, I got the same about the ammonia killing the fish when I bought mine. Shake the bottle and if it foams then its no good.

Yeah, I was shaking every bottle of ammonia that I picked up.
They all foamed, haha.

About the filtered water, what filter are we talking about? If if is RO/DI then I would say no because that will also remove things you want from the water (like buffers and trace minerals). Bottled water might get expensive. What is wrong with your tap water? Prime is a really good and cheap dechlorinator, to give you an idea a $16 500mL bottle has lasted me more than 3 months now and I do weekly PWCs on both my 20gal and my 75gal.

Oh, nothing's wrong with my tap water ... I was just wondering, honestly.
Researching and looking things up leads to a lot of questions sometimes.

 

[Zenobia]

Woke up this morning and noticed the tank was significantly less cloudy than it had been for the past couple of days.

Tested for pH (8.2) and Ammonia only ... After 5 days of the tank being set up, I've finally got some Ammonia readings! .50ppm!

... I think Im getting a little too excited over all of this stuff.

 

[fort384]

Good, sounds like things are progressing. You added the shrimp I take it? Just keep an eye out, it may take daily PWCs for a few days or a week to keep the ammonia at 0.25ppm or below... the shrimp are pretty susceptible to ammonia poisoning.

 

[Zenobia]

I shouldn't start doing PWC's until after the tank has cycled, right?

 

[fort384]

The shrimp are alive aren't they?

Doing PWCs won't slow down the cycle if you have living shrimp in the tank.

If you are doing the "dead shrimp" method, than no, no PWCs necessary.

 

[fort384]

EDIT: Sorry, was confused with another post... I was thinking you had put live shrimp in the tank. What are you using for a source of ammonia?

 

[Zenobia]

Dead shrimp, with a tiny, tiny amount of flake food here and there occasionally.
Seems to be working well so far.

 

[fort384]

Cool! Disregard what I was saying above... you are on the right track. Keep an eye on the ammonia level and make sure you keep some in the tank during the cycle. If the level drops to zero, the new bacteria can starve, stalling or starting your cycle over again. It will be tedious the next couple of weeks, but it will be worth it! Soon you will have a nice cycled tank, ready for some fish.

 

[Zenobia]

Awesome and good to know!

Honestly, Im finding this whole process a lot more interesting that I thought it would be.

I've been talking to my husband over the phone about it all and he keeps saying that fish are too much work.