ok, fish are dead, starting over.

[oneball]

Well, it really sucked. my son got attached to seeing the two goldfish when he woke up at night and in the morning. i had to flush them when he wasnt there. he still looks for them. Anyways, i got everything set up and tried to ( in what i could only describe as a halfazzed attempt) live cycle. I added my plants, two goldfish and things seemed to be working great. well my wife noticed the day after we put the fish in one of the goldfish had a spot on its back fin, a white spot. well its fins started to disintigrate. slowly at first, but i knew it was a problem when my blackmoore's eyes started to cloud over. i talked to a buddy that has fish and he said it sounded like ick. i treated them once for ick and it seemed to go away, the BM's eyes got better, but it came back with a vengence, destoroying fins, the eyes clouding bad and the gold gold fishes side basically being "eaten away" i dont know how else to describe it. Both dead now. the suggestions from the person i bought the fish:

tested my well water. Everything is good but ph. its on the higher side. he suggested if i wanted to live cycle try chiclids, as they are hardy and thrive in higher ph water at higher temps. my water was warmer, i live in an old house and the room they are in stays about between 75 and 85 degrees. i try to keep it cooler but its hard. he said the goldfish hate the warmer water, and it stresses their systems. he said to clean the tank not with bleach but a 2/3 white vinegar mix, and no live plants. i hate to kill fish so if this doesnt pan out im gonna quit and buy a hamster.

 

[CaptainAhab]

Take a read of this : http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-dummies-103339.html

Then post some questions. Cycling is easy, just take time and patience

 

[meegosh]

How big of a tank do you have? I know some cichlids are nasty little guys and some can grow to be quite large. Any chance your fish friend could give you some filter media so you can jump start your cycle? Basically anything you can take out of an established tank(other than the water) will be beneficial to you.

Everyone on here will tell you to do a fishless cycle with ammonia or shrimp. It is more humane and it is quicker. Are you planning on going back to goldfish?

Let us know what your plans are and some specs of your tank.

 

[oneball]

Take a read of this : http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-dummies-103339.html

Then post some questions. Cycling is easy, just take time and patience

ok, if im starting again and i want to make the most of this, should i clean it with the white vinegar? should i replace the ground cover entirely, and soak everything else? it has also been suggested that i should put a heater in the tank and turn it way up for a few days to kill the ick cysts if theyre in there. wont they be killed by the vinegar? also what about the cycling kits you can buy. would you suggest that or the ammonia thing listed in the link?

 

[oneball]

How big of a tank do you have? I know some cichlids are nasty little guys and some can grow to be quite large. Any chance your fish friend could give you some filter media so you can jump start your cycle? Basically anything you can take out of an established tank(other than the water) will be beneficial to you.

Everyone on here will tell you to do a fishless cycle with ammonia or shrimp. It is more humane and it is quicker. Are you planning on going back to goldfish?

Let us know what your plans are and some specs of your tank.

its a 20 gallon tank. i was told to stay with african chiclids because they dont get nearly as big as the south american ones. he suggested 5 at the most. i was going to do 4 or 5. im not going back to goldfish, i just wanted to try something cheap that i could move to my motherinlaws goldfish/koi pond if all went well after the tank was cycled...

 

[FastFly67]

:look:

 

[oneball]

:look:

hey get outta here :disturbed

 

[FastFly67]

hey get outta here :glenn:

I'm the one that linked you. Respect my authoriTIE!

 

[oneball]

I'm the one that linked you. Respect my authoriTIE!

:bow:

 

[saffikeagan]

Another vote here for a fishless cycle. I don't know about the vinegar, sorry. I'd be more tempted to sink a heater and crank it up. that way the tank, the water, all the substrate, everything will get an even temperature that is deadly to the ick instead of worrying if there is the possibility that the vinegar didn't get into a particular nook or cranny long enough to kill it, or didn't get rinsed back out of said nooks or crannies fully.

 

[oneball]

Another vote here for a fishless cycle. I don't know about the vinegar, sorry. I'd be more tempted to sink a heater and crank it up. that way the tank, the water, all the substrate, everything will get an even temperature that is deadly to the ick instead of worrying if there is the possibility that the vinegar didn't get into a particular nook or cranny long enough to kill it, or didn't get rinsed back out of said nooks or crannies fully.

well i vinegared the tank, but i will still buy a heater after everything is back together and heat everything up really good. gotta have one anyway for the fishless cycle dont i?

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

not necessarily, just will prob slow it dowm, I cycled my tank with fish and no heat, it took 2 months to cycle. Then I took the fish back and got new fish and heater.

 

[An t-iasg]

A temperature of about 80-82 degrees will help the fishless cycle along. You can reduce the temperature when the cycle is over. A temperature of 88 degrees for two weeks will kill ich.

You can bleach an empty tank to kill any ich and bacteria. Use about one cup of bleach to 5 cups of water. Rinse thoroughly and then fill the tank back up with plain water. Add a triple dose of dechlorinator to further remove the bleach.

I think it would be tough to bleach gravel and get it rinsed completely. Your heat method is good to make sure all the ich parasites are killed. They won't live without a fish host but they fall to the gravel to reproduce and you want to make sure that the gravel doesn't contain any more of the ich.

 

[sogreene]

Another vote here for fishless cycle...it does happen quicker, and is much more reliable than the with-fish cycle-less chance of fish loss altogether...
~also, DEFINATELY do not do cichlids if you are intending to add them to a koi/goldfish pond later---they prefer higher temps and are extremely aggressive (although are slightly less aggressive at lower temps)---they will, almost guaranteed, kill all of the fish in her pond---I've completely lucked out in that they leave my pleco alone...but honestly, anything slower than them is fair game-and they are quick.
A lot of people say the biggest challenge with cichlids is keeping them from killing eachother.
If you were to do cichlids, make sure you stick with dwarf mbunas with that size tank, you could probably start with 5, but they will eventually outgrow it, and you'll have to either take some back, or get a larger tank.
On a positive note, they are tons of fun since they interact with you more than many other freshwater fish.
If it were me, I'd go with some tropical community fish in that size tank...most are less expensive, and there are so many that are smaller in size that you could have a decent variety.
Good luck!

 

[oneball]

oh, i meant we were doing the goldfish at first to transplant, we wouldnt put the chiclids in the pond. the petshop guy told me the chiclids like 80-82 degree water is that true?

 

[kimo]

ok, if im starting again and i want to make the most of this, should i clean it with the white vinegar? should i replace the ground cover entirely, and soak everything else? it has also been suggested that i should put a heater in the tank and turn it way up for a few days to kill the ick cysts if theyre in there. wont they be killed by the vinegar? also what about the cycling kits you can buy. would you suggest that or the ammonia thing listed in the link?

IF: there are no fish in the tank: Syphon all the gravel out, rinse well using a piece of window screen nailed to a square of 2x4's. Dump all your water. Dumping all your water, rinsing the tank well, and rinsing the gravel over the screen will rid the tank immediately of any ICH parasites (free swimming or as cysts in the gravel).

Reset tank. It will need a complete re-cycle.

Vinegar will not kill ICH.

If you buy a cycling kit.... It needs to be fresh... and stored in the refrigerator or the bacteria will be dead. IMHO A fishless cycle is a waste of time and effort except for saltwater tanks. One 2 1/2" fish per 10g for the first three weeks, monitoring the ammonia, nitrite levels daily...will most likely need 30-40% water change weekly. When ammonia, nitrite levels reach zero - undetectable, and the nitrates rise above 10 ppm the tank is cycled.
Each tank will cycle a little differently than others.

 

[kimo]

A temperature of about 80-82 degrees will help the fishless cycle along. You can reduce the temperature when the cycle is over. A temperature of 88 degrees for two weeks will kill ich.

You can bleach an empty tank to kill any ich and bacteria. Use about one cup of bleach to 5 cups of water. Rinse thoroughly and then fill the tank back up with plain water. Add a triple dose of dechlorinator to further remove the bleach.

I think it would be tough to bleach gravel and get it rinsed completely. Your heat method is good to make sure all the ich parasites are killed. They won't live without a fish host but they fall to the gravel to reproduce and you want to make sure that the gravel doesn't contain any more of the ich.

"I think it would be tough to bleach gravel and get it rinsed completely. "

Its easy to rinse gravel completely without bleach. Make a 2 ft square out of 2x4's and cover with aluminum screening. Rinse gravel well and there will no ICH parasites or anything else left in the gravel.

 

[sogreene]

oh, i meant we were doing the goldfish at first to transplant, we wouldnt put the chiclids in the pond. the petshop guy told me the chiclids like 80-82 degree water is that true?

oh-gotcha! Yep, I keep mine at 82...if you notice that they are getting aggressive, you can always drop the temp to 79-80, but do it slowly, like over a week...they are more aggressive at higher temps.

 

[oneball]

aww sob. i thought the vin. would kill it if it was in there, i let it sit, went through the gravel a few times and stirred it up alot , dumped it multiple times, and set it all back up. turned the heater up to 88 degrees and have yet to turn on the filter ( havent cleaned it yet.) its not in the tank.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

It's easier just to clean the gravel in a strainer in the sink.

I agree with the others advice. Do a fishless cycle and then stock your tank with fish that you ultimately want to keep.