Prolonging cycle unecessarily...?

[TankinWithUs]

I have a question about our cycle...

Since ammonia keeps dropping pretty much overnight, but nitrites are taking longer, can I stop dosing ammonia? I feel like I'm prolonging my cycle because I keep making nitrites and the nitrates are trying to keep up. Nitrates are totally rising, so they're there getting their conversion on.

I'm starting to wonder if the reason my cycle seems a little stalled is because I keep adding ammonia. What do you guys think?

 

[fish wrangler]

What you might want to try is a complete water change. After this dose 2ppm ammonia, and if in 24 hours you just have nitrates left your considered cycled.
Only do this if you are doing a fishless cycle which I assume you are because you are dosing ammonia already.

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[TankinWithUs]

yes, I am fishless cycling. For the past week or so, I've always had nitrates and nitrites present and only a trace amount of ammonia after 24 hours. Ammonia has never gone all the way down to zero, but it hasn't been quite 0.25 either.

We've also changed substrate and filter (with same filter media as previous filter) mid cycle. I'm sure we've disturbed something, but at the same time...I'm thinking we should be pretty darn cycled by now. Especially with super red levels of nitrate.

Example?

I did a 50% water change last night and this afternoon I have less than 0.25 ammonia, 0.25 nitrite and still have nearly 40 nitrates

 

[fish wrangler]

Drain the tank and start over. My cycle with seeded material took almost 2 weeks to complete.

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[TankinWithUs]

Drain the tank and start over. My cycle with seeded material took almost 2 weeks to complete.

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*clutches pearls* start over?!?!?

 

[fish wrangler]

*clutches pearls* start over?!?!?

May seem crazy, but if you think about it it really isnt. It would be like starting a cycle with seeded material, only you know that your media has some time left to go.

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[hjsvt]

I think I'm about in the same spot in the process that you are. My cycle is processing 4 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours but within a couple of days my nitrites and nitrates are off the scale. I had done 1 50% water change

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[hjsvt]

Sorry tried to edit and hit enter instead! Today I did a 90% change. After ammonia was 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 5-10. I dosed back up to 4 ppm because that's what everything I've read says to do and keep doing water changes to keep nitrites and nitrates under control until you start processing nitrites. Even at that point you need to keep dosing to 1 ppm ammonia until the night before you plan to add fish. You don't want to starve your BB that you just worked so hard to create! Hope this helps!

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[Mebbid]

If your nitrites are still rising then your cycle still needs some time. This part of the cycle takes nearly 2x as long as the ammonia portion. Just take heart, the nitrites disappear very suddenly when they do.

Just give it some time, cycling a tank can take 2 months or so.

 

[TankinWithUs]

If your nitrites are still rising then your cycle still needs some time. This part of the cycle takes nearly 2x as long as the ammonia portion. Just take heart, the nitrites disappear very suddenly when they do.

Just give it some time, cycling a tank can take 2 months or so.

Yesterday vs. Today
Ammonia
2.0
.25

Nitrite
0.50
5.0+

Nitrate
20
40 - 80

Do I leave it alone? Add ammonia? pwc?

 

[Mebbid]

Yesterday vs. Today
Ammonia
2.0
.25

Nitrite
0.50
5.0+

Nitrate
20
40 - 80

Do I leave it alone? Add ammonia? pwc?

I would just keep adding ammonia to 2.0ppm. Your cycle isn't stalled at all. It's just a matter of a bit more time.

 

[TankinWithUs]

I would just keep adding ammonia to 2.0ppm. Your cycle isn't stalled at all. It's just a matter of a bit more time.

okidokie. sounds good to me

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[TankinWithUs]

Added to 2ppm last night:

Ammonia
2.0
.25
.25

Nitrite
0.50
5.0+
5.0+

Nitrate
20
40
80+

My NitrIte and NitrAte are really high...keep dosing ammonia? no water change??

 

[fish wrangler]

More ammonia.

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[hjsvt]

I would do a 50% water change and keep dosing ammonia. Have you read the article about fish cycling? It's one of the articles in the sticky at the top of this forum. It's has great step by step directions and is what I keep referring to. The directions recommend a 50% water change whenever nitites and nitrates are off the scale. A water change doesn't effect your cycle and the directions say it can keep it from stalling.

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[fish wrangler]

If the OP does a water change and adds Prime and then ammonia would the BB still be able to process the ammonium? Thats the only reason I reccomended not doing a water change.

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[hjsvt]

From The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling Written by Eric Ogilvie (link in the sticky at the top of the forum)

"I) Keep dosing the ammonia up to 4ppm. It should be dropping fairly quickly by now. Watch your nitrite levels, and once they’ve gotten really high…start testing for nitrAtes. Once the nitrAtes show up, it’s all downhill from here!
J) When your levels of nitrItes and nitrAtes get so high that they’re off what your test kit can show you… do a 50-60% water change. A water change will have no negative impact on your cycle and will help keep things moving and bring your levels low enough so you can actually tell what they are. You can also add another pinch of ground up fish food just to make sure the bacteria has lots of nutrients and phosphates to grow. A water change will also restore the buffers in your water to prevent any fluctuations in pH at the end of your cycle. Remember your dechlorinator!
K) Wait for the magic to happen. Keep watching your levels and adding the ammo up to 4ppm. Keep a very sharp eye on pH at this point. If you see any hints of the pH level dropping…time to break out the bucket and bottle of Prime to do a 50% water change. We want to make sure we have plenty of buffers in the water to keep the pH stable."


I don't know for sure but I'm also in the process of fishless cycling for the first time too and I think I'm at about the same point. I have done two water changes so far, one 50% and one 90% but some of that has been related to other water issues (can't use my soft well water). And I have seen no reduction in the ammonia uptake by my BB after either water change. I'm still not processing nitrites either but 4 ppm of ammonia is processed in less than 24 hours in my tank right now even after two water changes, with Prime added.

 

[fish wrangler]

4ppm is close to the threshold of overdosing ammonia and stalling the cycle. 2ppm is more than adequate to cycle a tank.

Water changes during a fishless cycle are not necessary. Some say they help others say they don't.

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[hjsvt]

I'm in no way an expert. Only sharing what I'm using for a guide and that it's working for me almost to the letter. I don't know the exact chemistry but I'm dosing my tank with Dr Tim's Aquatics Ammonium Chloride. And it is working just fine. My test kit shows the ammonia after its added and is all gone after 24 hours so the BB must be able to use ammonium.

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[TankinWithUs]

I appreciate both of you taking the time out to help me out! I think I might do a little of both. I dosed up to 2ppm and I'm going to see where I'm at tomorrow. The Nitrates are climbing so they must be processing the Nitrite. At some point they'll just keep climbing and I'll have no choice but to do pwc.

I'll see where I'm at tomorrow. If I'm flying off the handle, I'll do a pwc.

Thanks y'all! I'll let you know what I get.