RCS Cherry Shrimp in community tank, advice

[SpeedEuphoria]

Hello I'm new to this hobby. I currently have a 10 gallon tank with a couple of low light plants. I have 5 adult Guppy's(3F/2M) and 2 ghost shrimp. I would really like to have some RCS in my tank. I hear they are easy to keep and breed well. The tank has been setup for 3 months and has cycled. My PH is 8.0-8.2, it should be hard AFAIK(never tested). The reason I got Ghost Shrimp was to try it out, since I'm new and they are cheap, I dont think they will be an issue with the RCS but LMK if otherwise.

I already have MTS and would love a 20 long for my current fish, then the 10 for just the RCS, but its not possible at this time.

So I'm pretty sure that the Guppy's will eat the baby shrimp, since they already eat the fry. Also my Ghost shrimp ate 1 fry also. Now the plants are starting to grow so I will soon have more hiding spots. I would also like to have some Java Moss, but cannot find it locally, I plan to buy the RCS online somewhere so I will pay extra for some extra Moss to start in my tank.

So I'm just wondering how well these shrimp would do in a community tank. I've read people breeding them have had as many as 100-150 in a 10 gallon(not really what I'm looking for). I figure if they do that well then I will sell some to the LFS as they have a hard time getting them.

Do these shrimp do OK with salt? I have slight amounts in my tank(since LFS had salt) but was planning to slowly reduce it with water changes. I know that is kinda a different topic, but is your opinion that salt is not truly needed with Guppy's?

Thanks in advance, I'm glad I found this great forum.

[Purrbox]

In my opinion Salt should be treated as a medication and only used when actually treating something. I've never heard of Guppy's needing salt.

RCS may or may not do okay in your aquarium. It really depends on whether or not they are large enough to avoid being eaten by your guppies when you first recieve them. Most ship RCS at 1/4"-1/2" as they acclimate to their new homes much easier as juveniles. If you Guppies have been eating fry this size, then it's doubtful that the shrimp will survive long enough to start breeding. Lots of hiding spots are helpful, but it only goes so far when the shrimp are first being introduced.

[PITT]

I'm no RCS expert but I've had some for about a year now and they seem to be doing extremly well in a tank w/ fish. I have them housed w/ a few small tetras (forgot the name, cheap-all LFS seem to have them) and a few zebra danios. While i'm sure they pick of a few of the babys, my crew out breeds the small loss. I have a 20g and I have a lot of java moss so the young probably stand a better chance than in a smaller tank w/ little room to hide. I'm not saying don't get some but mine where shipped tiny. I'd recomend hiding spaces first...you'd be sad if they where all gone by morning.

I had the same idea as you and started w/ a couple ghost shrimp. They are bigger but don't seem to have any issues w/ the reds. I see them eating side by side all the time. Do they pick off a few of the young...probably, but again they are out breeding any feeding that is going on.

Salt - I don't use it in my tank so I'm sure they are good w/o it...I have no idea how they are with it.


They are very cool lil guys to have...I highly recomend them!!

[SpeedEuphoria]

Well so far the Fry have not survived more than 5 days. I just got these new fish 1 month ago, the next day I saw one fry who lasted a couple days, then this week I had 6 fry that I spotted, I saw the last one get eaten today. Its a small tank so I dont want the population to get out of hand, but dont want all the Fry to get eaten either.

I want to wait a month or 2 and see how the plants take off, hopefully then I will have more cover for the shrimp. Thats why I'm kinda up in the air about it. I would really like some Java Moss now to grow before I try the RCS, but I have not found it locally. I guess I will get some online 1st and let my plants grow out. But yes I'm highly interested in these little guys.


PITT: how many of the RCS did you start with, 12? and how many do you have now?

Thanks everyone

[PITT]

I ordered a dozen. Now? It's hard to say...50ish +/-.

Here is my thread when I first got them.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...lly-93435.html


One thing somesomeone mentioned is that the young don't do well w/ fast growing plants so I'd look into that. My tank is down to java fern and java moss so I'm no where near that issue.

[SpeedEuphoria]

Well i just purchased some Java Moss from AquaBid, 1st time using that site(made sure they had good feedback). I believe I will be getting a very small amount, but I have a small tank. I will try to get it established then come back for some RCS

[Purrbox]

Originally Posted by PITT

IOne thing somesomeone mentioned is that the young don't do well w/ fast growing plants so I'd look into that. My tank is down to java fern and java moss so I'm no where near that issue.

I've got my RCS in a high light aquarium with CO2 and EI fertilization. Lots of fast growing plants during the early setup, cut back to slower growing plants for easier maintenance. The shrimp may or may not breed quite as fast, but I definately don't have any problems getting them to breed as long as I don't let their population doesn't get too big. I really don't think that it's nearly as big a deal with RCS as the more expensive shrimp when it comes to what type of planted aquarium you have.

[PITT]

Originally Posted by Purrbox

I've got my RCS in a high light aquarium with CO2 and EI fertilization. Lots of fast growing plants during the early setup, cut back to slower growing plants for easier maintenance. The shrimp may or may not breed quite as fast, but I definately don't have any problems getting them to breed as long as I don't let their population doesn't get too big. I really don't think that it's nearly as big a deal with RCS as the more expensive shrimp when it comes to what type of planted aquarium you have.

That's FANTASTIC news!! I'm going to be getting my 55 back up and going but this time invest in pressurized CO2, a good substrate, and really make a go at a show tank this time around. I planned on no fish until I get the EI down w/ the new set up. I also planned on placing some RCS in and letting them get established before fish too and was a little worried about the fast growing plant thing. I'll be sure to update my RCS/fast plant situation.

[neilanh]

I have probably 200-250 in my 20g tank right now (RCS only planted tank). I also have well over 100 in my 125g tank with some full grown rainbows that are actually being successful at increasing their population, although the fish do enjoy the live snacks quite often.

I think you should give it a shot. RCS aren't that expensive IMO, and are quite good at hiding.

I'd be willing to donate some to your cause, shoot me a PM if interested.

I also find that they'll regulate their breeding based on the environment they have. When my population in my RCS tank reaches about where it is now I noticed a cutback in how often I find berried females. But if I remove a bunch, I'll see the babies start to come back again.

[Purrbox]

Originally Posted by PITT

That's FANTASTIC news!! I'm going to be getting my 55 back up and going but this time invest in pressurized CO2, a good substrate, and really make a go at a show tank this time around. I planned on no fish until I get the EI down w/ the new set up. I also planned on placing some RCS in and letting them get established before fish too and was a little worried about the fast growing plant thing. I'll be sure to update my RCS/fast plant situation.

I do highly recommend that you get your dosing and most importantly your CO2 injection down before adding the shrimp. It's very easy to wipe out an aquarium full of shrimp while the CO2 regulator is settling in. I probably had 100+ shrimp in my aquarium when I switched to pressurized. The flow slipped a bit high and wiped out all but about a dozen of the adolescent shrimp.

[kimo]

"So I'm pretty sure that the Guppy's will eat the baby shrimp, since they already eat the fry. Also my Ghost shrimp ate 1 fry also. Now the plants are starting to grow so I will soon have more hiding spots. I would also like to have some Java Moss, but cannot find it locally, I plan to buy the RCS online somewhere so I will pay extra for some extra Moss to start in my tank."

If your adult guppies are eating the fry (10g), you are most likely underfeeding. Feed 4-6x a day, enough for them to finish in 1 or 2 minutes.
Added plantcover will help. Guppy grass (Naja sp.) works great for providing cover and a source of food for RCS. Java moss works ok too.

"So I'm just wondering how well these shrimp would do in a community tank. I've read people breeding them have had as many as 100-150 in a 10 gallon(not really what I'm looking for). I figure if they do that well then I will sell some to the LFS as they have a hard time getting them."

I have some RCS in a 20g with fancy guppies and they have bred successfully
tripling in numbers (at least) in 6 months. Have also taken about 20 out and seeded my planted 150g tank with them. Do not know how many are there because of all the cover but they live and breed ok with a mix of tetras and guppies.

"Do these shrimp do OK with salt? I have slight amounts in my tank(since LFS had salt) but was planning to slowly reduce it with water changes. I know that is kinda a different topic, but is your opinion that salt is not truly needed with Guppy's?"

NO salt needed. Just keep your nitrates at a decent level (below 20 ppm). If you have soft water try adding some calcium or shell grit to the substrate to help keep their shells healthy.

[JohnPaul]

Originally Posted by Purrbox

Most ship RCS at 1/4"-1/2" as they acclimate to their new homes much easier as juveniles. If you Guppies have been eating fry this size, then it's doubtful that the shrimp will survive long enough to start breeding. Lots of hiding spots are helpful, but it only goes so far when the shrimp are first being introduced.

This is the key line from the whole thread so far. In general adult shrimp do not ship very well, so most RCS breeders ship only small juvenile shrimp. So the danger is going to be the first few weeks, as if the shrimp are small enough to fit in your guppies' mouths then it's over, the fat lady is singing. To increase your chances of the initial shrimp surviving, you need lots of plant cover especially things like najas (guppy grass) and/or java moss (or similar mosses).

Also note that adult ghost shrimp will eat baby RCS shrimplets, though all things being equal if you actually have the RCS breeding then the losses shouldn't be too extreme--as long as you have adequate hiding places for the babies.

I always recommend RCS get a tank of their own, as they *will* be more active in a tank where there are no predators (fish). But if that's not an option for you in the short term, then certainly you can give them a try in the tank you have. Just be sure you have enough vegetation to give them a fighting chance.

[kimo]

"I always recommend RCS get a tank of their own, as they *will* be more active in a tank where there are no predators (fish). But if that's not an option for you in the short term, then certainly you can give them a try in the tank you have. Just be sure you have enough vegetation to give them a fighting chance."


I agree, except for an all guppy tank with enough space/cover for all.

If my RCS want to go across the tank and there happens to be an adult guppy in the way.... they move it. LOL!

[SpeedEuphoria]

Originally Posted by kimo

If your adult guppies are eating the fry (10g), you are most likely underfeeding. Feed 4-6x a day, enough for them to finish in 1 or 2 minutes.
Added plantcover will help. Guppy grass (Naja sp.) works great for providing cover and a source of food for RCS. Java moss works ok too.

Well I have more plant cover now, some new Java Moss, also the small new crypts and ferns that I picked off the large ones seem to be growing larger also. This is with stock 15w crappy light, no co2, no ferts, no root tabs and cheap regular gravel. So thats looking better and I'm pleased, also I moved the plants around for more hiding areas. I noticed that the Guppy's didn't mess with the fry after 1 week old, they will chase it then realize it is a fish, then back off. So I have a 2+week old fry that doesnt hide anymore, then today I saw 3 new fry.

I dont think I'll be feeding 4-6x a day ever, that just seems way too much. I did read about feeding fry that often, yet others with planted tanks say they dont feed fry at all(well not specifically targeting them). So far they seem just fine with 1 feeding a day and since I'm new I occasionally do every other day feedings b/c I fear overfeeding.

I guess the main thing when I started this tank was to not have the population get out of hand, so far its OK, now with more cover I think I will have more surviving fry, and should be good for the shrimp, we shall see?

Also all my ghost shrimp have died(had 4), I'm chalking most of it up to that when I first got my heater I had a couple issues so the temp would fluctuate a lot. I also had a small male guppy die around this time, with 2 of the ghost shrimp(one just disappeared w/o a trace). The heat is perfectly stable now. Then the last 2 shrimp seemed to start turning white and died shortly after that. I'm assuming that the heat fluctuation issue was most of the stress. I also hear people have troubles keeping them living for long, mine were large, so who knows? After my heater issue was resolved the fish all became more colorful and seem very happy.

I am hoping to get some RCS from a great member on here soon w/ some more Java Moss for a great price. I honestly would love to get a 20 gallon long for fish and keep just RCS in this 10G, but I cant swing it at the moment and I'm still new, I figured I'd give my self a year with this tank 1st.

[JohnPaul]

My experience with store-bought ghost shrimp tend to come in two extremes:

1. I'd say about 80-90% of them die within a few weeks, no matter how great my tank conditions are. By "die" I don't mean "eaten by a fish," I mean good ol' fashioned keel over & die. The only thing I can chalk it up to is the general poor state of most of these things in pet stores.

2. About 10-20% of them seem to be some sort of super invincible ghost shrimp that live forever (easily a year plus), in at least one case I had 3 that managed to survive in a neglected tank that had nitrate levels high enough to kill an elephant (if elephants could swim, at least), while at the same time avoiding several red claw crabs and a freshwater crayfish. Crazy.