So Frustrated! Need advice, please!

[Water Wiggler]

Bettas are hardy and wonderful! I plan on having one in my 5 gallon tank if that one ever cycles. I may have one in my 10 gallon tank if neons are this sensitive and I have ammonia in my tap water. My first betta lived for 2 years.

 

[dragon14]

I love bettas! They can live 4-5 years though with proper care. 2 years is better than some bettas that don't get good care (Which sadly is far too many I think ), but, they should live longer

Mine got some fin rot from just .25 ammonia in the water, then .5 happened a few weeks later. We weren't keeping up with the water changes as good. .25 was in a 10g after two weeks with no water change, .5 was in a 2g after 5 days. You can see how quickly ammonia can add up.

We treated him with salt and he seems ok now. I hope his beautiful fins heal and grow back. They're all shredded right now Grow BACK not black.

Bettas may be considered hardy, but, NO fish should be exposed to ammonia, even little amounts, for very long. When ammonia is detected, a water change should be done asap.

 

[Water Wiggler]

Don't worry too much. It sounds like you have the basics.
When I started I found the same thing. I had perfect water, 0 ammonia, did a pwc to make sure everything was perfect and bam! .25 ammonia. Did another pwc tested same thing.

Prime will help you. I would test your faucet water again and make sure you follow all directions so it is right on. You can get rid of ammonia by using Prime and giving your tank enough time for BB to break it down.

If it is still .50 I would check into using RO water and remineralizing it for the shrimp. I haven't had to do this, because mine fluctuates sometimes we do have it sometimes not.

Do you have the maximum filter media in your set up? If not I would add more.

So, Prime is different than a typical water conditioner? Should I toss my water conditioner in favor of Prime due to ammonia in my tap water? I think the ammonia in the tap water is an on and off thing, too, because there wasn't any in it when I first started testing and cycling.

I have an AquaClear 20 with a sponge and two levels of biomax. It's a kick butt filter that I got specifically because I plan on having shrimp. I've got a pre-fliter sponge on it, too. The reason for the neons was because they're peaceful fish with small mouths and will leave the cherry shrimp alone for the most part.

Maybe I should get a betta fish instead of the neons since it's more hardy and this is a new tank? I won't be able to have cherry shrimp, though. Betta fish can often be o.k. with ghost shrimp I've heard. Not sure about amano shrimp.

So sorry for all of the questions, but I'm am so new at this!

 

[Water Wiggler]

I love bettas! They can live 4-5 years though with proper care. 2 years is better than some bettas that don't get good care (Which sadly is far too many I think ), but, they should live longer

Mine got some fin rot from just .25 ammonia in the water, then .5 happened a few weeks later. We weren't keeping up with the water changes as good. .25 was in a 10g after two weeks with no water change, .5 was in a 2g after 5 days. You can see how quickly ammonia can add up.

We treated him with salt and he seems ok now. I hope his beautiful fins heal and grow back. They're all shredded right now Grow BACK not black.

Bettas may be considered hardy, but, NO fish should be exposed to ammonia, even little amounts, for very long. When ammonia is detected, a water change should be done asap.

I'm glad your betta is better! Mine went through a lot. I didn't know about cycling and just tossed him in there. Luckily, I had a friend who knew about cycling and he threw some of his bacteria laden media in there to save him. He lived for two years after that! I was good about water changes with him, but I didn't know about the API testing kit. I loved him! He ended up with something that I can only describe as a tumor. It wasn't fin rot. It wasn't swim bladder. It wasn't anything that is common for a betta.

 

[dragon14]

I'm glad your betta is better! Mine went through a lot. I didn't know about cycling and just tossed him in there. Luckily, I had a friend who knew about cycling and he threw some of his bacteria laden media in there to save him. He lived for two years after that! I was good about water changes with him, but I didn't know about the API testing kit. I loved him! He ended up with something that I can only describe as a tumor. It wasn't fin rot. It wasn't swim bladder. It wasn't anything that is common for a betta.

Thank you so much! I love him so much. I fell in love with him at PetCo. We weren't going to get a fish that day. But I HAD to have him that day

Oh good for having a friend that helps! I've had a friend helping me a lot too! She saved me from getting a 20g and throwing a bunch of fish in without any knowledge of the nitrogen cycle. What a disaster that would have been!

I wasn't trying to say you didn't love him; I was just saying, usually they should be able to live longer. I'm glad that you gave him good water changes and everything. That's terrible about the tumor I'm sorry. Did he waste away? He MAY have been bloated/constipated. We fast our Betta every Wednesday. It's good for them. And we don't overfeed him. If he gets a little too much one day, he gets a bit less than normal the next day.

You did the best you could for him

 

[Autumnsky]

So, Prime is different than a typical water conditioner? Should I toss my water conditioner in favor of Prime due to ammonia in my tap water? I think the ammonia in the tap water is an on and off thing, too, because there wasn't any in it when I first started testing and cycling.

I have an AquaClear 20 with a sponge and two levels of biomax. It's a kick butt filter that I got specifically because I plan on having shrimp. I've got a pre-fliter sponge on it, too. The reason for the neons was because they're peaceful fish with small mouths and will leave the cherry shrimp alone for the most part.

Maybe I should get a betta fish instead of the neons since it's more hardy and this is a new tank? I won't be able to have cherry shrimp, though. Betta fish can often be o.k. with ghost shrimp I've heard. Not sure about amano shrimp.

So sorry for all of the questions, but I'm am so new at this!

I PM'd you for some additional info.

Have you seen Celestial Pearl Danios, you can look them up, they are beautiful and are small, will often eat tiny baby shrimp as will most every fish as that is a major food source, but they have pretty tiny mouths, so not good if you are just breeding but not too bad if you are keeping shrimp. Amano no problem they are more than 2x the size usually as RCS.

Bettas will do what they want. Live peacefully for months then, sometimes go crazy and bite and kill all little shrimp or other tank mates. Sometimes, you can't even have a little Ramshorn snail! You just never know. I have kept a few out of very many over the years, which can be in a community tank with peaceful and non nippy other fish.

But not Bettas with RCS, mostly no way. Any time I have tried them they were eaten within days.

You would be able to have Neons with Amanos and probably Ghost shrimp too.

The Amano shrimp are often called the Algae eating shrimp, but it is like all shrimp and is omnivorous. They will start acting insane and stealing shrimp RCS food and swimming around crazy, no kidding, lol

They love Hikari Omnivore sinking wafers, a lot!!!

It is great that you are doing such a very good job trying to make this work for the shrimp you would like to get, or other fish. So hang in there a little longer so that we can pick some more brains and get you a definitive answer on how to keep what you would like.

Again, even having bad water, you can keep shrimp. As I mentioned you can do RO water and mineral supplement to make it good for shrimp.

 

[Water Wiggler]

Thank you so much! I love him so much. I fell in love with him at PetCo. We weren't going to get a fish that day. But I HAD to have him that day

Oh good for having a friend that helps! I've had a friend helping me a lot too! She saved me from getting a 20g and throwing a bunch of fish in without any knowledge of the nitrogen cycle. What a disaster that would have been!

I wasn't trying to say you didn't love him; I was just saying, usually they should be able to live longer. I'm glad that you gave him good water changes and everything. That's terrible about the tumor I'm sorry. Did he waste away? He MAY have been bloated/constipated. We fast our Betta every Wednesday. It's good for them. And we don't overfeed him. If he gets a little too much one day, he gets a bit less than normal the next day.

You did the best you could for him

I know you didn't insinuate that I didn't love or take good care of my betta. It wasn't bloating. I was very conscious of overfeeding. He got 4 pellets a day if I recall. The closest diagnosis I had for him was lymphocystis. I read that it does go away, but there is no cure or treatment for it. It never went away and just got bigger. He had it for months and it never seemed to bother him until the end. Then he couldn't swim. Poor guy!

 

[dragon14]

I know you didn't insinuate that I didn't love or take good care of my betta. It wasn't bloating. I was very conscious of overfeeding. He got 4 pellets a day if I recall. The closest diagnosis I had for him was lymphocystis. I read that it does go away, but there is no cure or treatment for it. It never went away and just got bigger. He had it for months and it never seemed to bother him until the end. Then he couldn't swim. Poor guy!

I'm sorry . Poor guy. He had a good life with you though

 

[Water Wiggler]

I PM'd you for some additional info.

Have you seen Celestial Pearl Danios, you can look them up, they are beautiful and are small, will often eat tiny baby shrimp as will most every fish as that is a major food source, but they have pretty tiny mouths, so not good if you are just breeding but not too bad if you are keeping shrimp. Amano no problem they are more than 2x the size usually as RCS.

Bettas will do what they want. Live peacefully for months then, sometimes go crazy and bite and kill all little shrimp or other tank mates. Sometimes, you can't even have a little Ramshorn snail! You just never know. I have kept a few out of very many over the years, which can be in a community tank with peaceful and non nippy other fish.

But not Bettas with RCS, mostly no way. Any time I have tried them they were eaten within days.

You would be able to have Neons with Amanos and probably Ghost shrimp too.

The Amano shrimp are often called the Algae eating shrimp, but it is like all shrimp and is omnivorous. They will start acting insane and stealing shrimp RCS food and swimming around crazy, no kidding, lol

They love Hikari Omnivore sinking wafers, a lot!!!

It is great that you are doing such a very good job trying to make this work for the shrimp you would like to get, or other fish. So hang in there a little longer so that we can pick some more brains and get you a definitive answer on how to keep what you would like.

Again, even having bad water, you can keep shrimp. As I mentioned you can do RO water and mineral supplement to make it good for shrimp.

You are so helpful! Thank you! I am a huge fan of picking as many brains as possible on here. Perhaps I should start a new thread now that I know that tap water ammonia was the culprit.

I love your suggestions! Danios are gorgeous and a possibility. I was hoping for fish with blue in it to clash with the red house and plant and black background in my tank. The blue neon strip in the neon tetras would have been perfect. You said, "You would be able to have Neons with Amanos and probably Ghost shrimp too" but I can't have neons because it's a new tank with ammonia issues, right? I was confused by that. Maybe I could have danios with some blue shrimp! That could be cool.

Through research, I am all too familiar with spazzy bettas needing a tank with zippo/nada/no way/not happenin' tank mates! Ha, ha! I didn't realize that they could be peaceful and then spaz out. Thanks for the warning! Getting a single blue betta is a possibility, but I really would like some shrimp.

I haven't read your additional info, yet, about supplements. I will! Again, thank you soooooo much for your advice!

 

[dragon14]

Oo I'm planning on putting Pygmy catfish in with our betta. We'll take him out temporarily when the catfish are added though.

I hope they get along! They're a lot faster than he is though

 

[Autumnsky]

Check out Green Neons and Sundanio Axlerodi "Blue Neon".

Both beautiful fish. Green Neons are smaller than the regular neons by maybe a 1/4 inch.

Sundanio not a very good pic but you can get the idea of the color, and they are very small

This has the Green Neon which looks more blue to me, and a couple of my CPD

blue velvet shrimp

and BV babies munching

You can use the RO water (from local fish store or health food or grocery store RO machine where you use your own containers for bottled water) and mineral supplement to make perfect water
OR

Set up a water container like a 5G bucket and get the water mellowed before you add it into your shrimp tank. You can do that by adding as much Anacharis or Hornwort, lower light plants even Moss, or other plant which grows well in your water. They use up the ammonia.

You can set up a little 6500K-6700K daylight cfl bulb on a lamp, like a table lamp or gooseneck desk lamp.

If you have a place to set up a 5G bucket or 5G water bottle you can do this. Like a corner or a garage even.

Then you mellow your water for 3-7 days and it should be perfect to use with 0 ammonia for your shrimp.

Hey, where there is a will there is a way. I wanted you to see some pics so you might be encouraged and inspired. Is it working?

If you have good weather you can do this outside like on a patio like a little "pond" bucket.

 

[Water Wiggler]

Who knows? It could work. Try it. If it's a fast swimmer and not colorful, it could stand a chance. You're braver than I am. I work at a humane society, so I take making animals as happy as possible silly seriously. Ha, ha! I figure that if a betta wants to be alone, he should be alone. I'm dorky like that. My betta had a snail "friend" for a while, but he was clearly not thrilled about it. Maybe it's because the snail pooped a lot.

 

[Water Wiggler]

I just figured out that you're talking about reverse osmosis water. Do you think that just using Prime will do the job? I want to keep lugging buckets around to a minimum. I'm physically disabled. Doing weekly water changes is no problem because the sink is fairly close, my 10 gallon fish tank is conveniently located next to the couch, and my 5 gallon future betta tank is on a table with chairs!

I am SO inspired! I like your style and your advice! I'm kind of falling in love with the celestial pearl danios a.k.a. galaxy danios. My LFS sells them for $7 each, though. Ouch. If I fall in love, I may just treat myself if they're hardy enough. I've been through a lot and I've picked up some extra hours at work.

I can also get my hands on zebra danios, leopard danios, and regular pearl danios but none of them seem to have the blue that I want. Sundanio Axlerodi "Blue Neon" seem MOST AWESOME and I could get the red cherry shrimp!!!! Wow! I couldn't call around to see if my LFS carry them because my phone died. I will let you know!

So, as of now, it's between celestial danios and blue velvet shrimp or Sundanio Axlerodi "Blue Neon" with red cherry shrimp! Wish I could get both red cherries and blue velvets, but their babies would have weird colors that only a mother shrimp could love. Ha, ha!

You are amazing! You are soooooo very helpful! I'm inspired! I'm inspired!

 

[Autumnsky]

I just figured out that you're talking about reverse osmosis water. Do you think that just using Prime will do the job? I want to keep lugging buckets around to a minimum. I'm physically disabled. Doing weekly water changes is no problem because the sink is fairly close, my 10 gallon fish tank is conveniently located next to the couch, and my 5 gallon future betta tank is on a table with chairs!

I am SO inspired! I like your style and your advice! I'm kind of falling in love with the celestial pearl danios a.k.a. galaxy danios. My LFS sells them for $7 each, though. Ouch. If I fall in love, I may just treat myself if they're hardy enough. I've been through a lot and I've picked up some extra hours at work.

I can also get my hands on zebra danios, leopard danios, and regular pearl danios but none of them seem to have the blue that I want. Sundanio Axlerodi "Blue Neon" seem MOST AWESOME and I could get the red cherry shrimp!!!! Wow! I couldn't call around to see if my LFS carry them because my phone died. I will let you know!

So, as of now, it's between celestial danios and blue velvet shrimp or Sundanio Axlerodi "Blue Neon" with red cherry shrimp! Wish I could get both red cherries and blue velvets, but their babies would have weird colors that only a mother shrimp could love. Ha, ha!

You are amazing! You are soooooo very helpful! I'm inspired! I'm inspired!

Sorry about the RO thing, I usually write it out the first time and abbv. after that.

The Sundanios like a lower pH. Aka Sundanio Rasbora blue neon, aka Neon Rasbora, who knows what other names they have. There is a green, red and something else so you have to specify, the blue.

The green neons are MUCH less costly.

The CPD I got originally, 3 of them were 8.99 each, but the other guy I found them at had them for 4/$10. So It pays to spend a little time looking around.


The RCS and BV are the same kind. These are bred from sports of the RCS and it takes a bit of time to get them nice. The babies can start out red and they turn blue. These babies as you can see from the baby pic are blue. Their parents, some I got as babies started as red, and red and blue. The breeder was local and used some of her Rili shrimp which had blue in them and bred them with some which were Blue as adults from Nic, an importer of shrimp and inverts back a couple years ago.

And now they are looking very pretty!

 

[Autumnsky]

Before I forget, I wanted to say that the feeding of nano fish takes some attention. Since they have tiny mouths you need to make sure they get enough food. I have Chili Rasboras too, they were my first nano fish. I watched that the little guys couldn't even get a micro bites into their mouth, so I rubbed them together with my finger and thumb to make sure they would break down smaller and be a good size. After that I had no problems and they grew and lived a fairly long time for nano fish, a couple years for the Chilis and Sundanios too.

So for feeding the fish they eat things more from the top and the shrimp more from the bottom.
Also a varied diet with live and or freeze dried or frozen worms, baby brine shrimp, tubifex worms. Blood worms are good too but I am allergic to them so of course don't use them.

I also don't use flaked food very often. It turns to ammonia quickly. I use Hikari Shrimp Cuisine, (Crab Cuisine, Sinking Algae wafers and omnivore pellets which is the one most all fish and shrimp love,) for my basic feeding and it doesn't seem to cause ammonia spikes or cloudiness. I for sure don't use flakes in my shrimp tanks.

This is because I have seen disasters when using too much food especially, but even flaked.

Also if you do get shrimp think of how much to feed them as the size of their eyes, think about a tiny amount. They have a little bigger stomach, but thinking of that can help put it into perspective on what a tiny bit of pellet or wafer is needed.

 

[Water Wiggler]

While you were writing that, I was researching the blue neons! Alas, my PH is too high for those guys. The API test indicates that my regular PH is 7.6 (blue) and my High Range PH is 7.4 (tannish brown). Does that make my PH 7.5?

On the other hand, the CPD can handle my PH, I think. I've got three pre-boiled and cured 4" cholla wood covered with java moss for my future shrimp, but I don't think that amount of wood will lower the PH much. I don't want it to lower much because doing a water change would make the PH fluctuate and hurt the fish. Will tannins from the cholla wood bother the CPD?

You became so much cooler because I just realized that you sent pics of YOUR fish and shrimp and not just a google image. Whoa! Those baby shrimp are SOOO cute with their big black beady eyes! I'm in love!

So, as of now, it's CPD and blue velvet shrimp! That would look most awesome! I hope my tank is planted enough. The only live plant I have is the java moss. I've got a bushy green silk plant with big leaves in one back corner, a long and thin fake feathery plant in the other back corner, a short red silk plant to hide the heater in the middle, a bubble breathing dragon, a small bridge, and a gazebo type "house". Would CPD be ok with that setup?

 

[Water Wiggler]

I have New Life Spectrum small fish forumula sinking pellets and freeze-dried bloodworms on hand with no fish to feed. Ha, ha! Will that be good for CPD and whatever falls to the bottom for the shrimp? Do CPD have the tiny mouth issue that you mentioned? I shall avoid flake food!

 

[dragon14]

Well he will have to live in the 5g the pygmys are in right now if he doesn't get along with them. we will keep a close watch the first week or so. Then again, we always keep a close eye on our fishies

I want them to be happy too. If they don't get along, then, well, boo we'll have to keep two tanks Which I wanted to avoid at the moment. But you do what you have to do sometimes

If we do have to separate them, we may look into getting another few fish to go in the 10g with them. But that's jumping a bit ahead here!

 

[Water Wiggler]

That's a great way of going about it! I hope it works out for ya. Keep me posted!

 

[dragon14]

Yep! Thanks, I will!