Speeding Up a Fishless Cycle

[GouramiFanatic]

My filter and other supplies for my 75 gallon tank should arrive Thursday. If all goes well, I'm planning on hooking everything up to start the filter and cycle Thursday night. Here's what I'm thinking of doing to try to speed up the whole cycle process...

> Adding gravel from the 10 gallon aquarium at home

> Adding some plants (fake) and a terra cotta pot from the 10 gallon aquarium.

> I was thinking of replacing the sponge in my 46 gallon aquarium and bringing the old one home to squeeze it to get some extra bacteria. My question is should I squeeze it right into the tank or would it be better to do it inside the filter so it makes immediate contact wih the new filter's media? I'm getting the XP3.

What about sticking the whole sponge inside the tank instead of just squeezing it? Will that help or is this a bad idea? This sponge will be coming from an AquaClear 300 so it's a good sized sponge.

Anything else that you think may help speed this up would be appreciated! I'm planning to do a fishless cycle and just the thought of having to wait another 2 months before I can start adding fish is killing me! I really want to get through this cycle as quickly as possible without using any fish or chemicals.

 

[kay-bee19]

I think doing all of those simultaneously would speed things up (as bacteria exists on all surface areas within the tank and filters), although if you had to choose one, the best method would be placing the old sponge in your XP3 alongside other bio-media.

Doing that could practically instantly cycle your tank to some degree (i.e. support roughly equivalent of the majority your 46-gal bio-load if that sponge came from the only filter running on that tank).

I've 'fishless' cycled tanks rather quickly using seeded bio-media and ammonia.

If you have good aeration/water surface agitation, increasing the temp to the mid-80s will increase bacteria reproduction rates.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

I think doing all of those simultaneously would speed things up (as bacteria exists on all surface areas within the tank and filters), although if you had to choose one, the best method would be placing the old sponge in your XP3 alongside other bio-media.

Doing that could practically instantly cycle your tank to some degree (i.e. support roughly equivalent of the majority your 46-gal bio-load if that sponge came from the only filter running on that tank).

I've 'fishless' cycled tanks rather quickly using seeded bio-media and ammonia.

If you have good aeration/water surface agitation, increasing the temp to the mid-80s will increase bacteria reproduction rates.

I didn't know I could put that sponge in the XP3. The spong is rather large, it will fit ok? I definitely don't want to end up breaking this brand new filter by trying to cram such a large sponge in it!

I'll definitely have enough aeration so raising the temps won't be a problem. Thanks for the ideas!!

 

[kay-bee19]

Well you probably received your XP3 by now, so you can see the media baskets are about 6"(w) x 6"(l) x 3"(h).

I'm not exactly sure what type of spong you have but if you're no longer going to use it, you can cut it to make it fit in your media basket. I've done that with an AC110 sponge before. Alternatively, squeezing the established sponge in the tank will distribute a bunch of bacteria in the water where they will eventually make they're way to your bio media and start colonizing.

 

[flipz]

Also make sure to keep in mind that something needs to be "feeding" the bacteria. As others said, with that sponge from your AC300 you more than likely would only have a mini-cycle, or even a complete instant cycle. So you would probably be safe putting fish in at the same time that you add the sponge.

But if you do all of those things (add the sponge, and items from your 10g) and never put in any ammonia source (pure ammonia, some fish, a shrimp, whatever), the bacteria will just die anyways.

-brent

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Thank you for the info! I ended up just keeping the sponge in the corner of the tank. I sqeezed it a few times near the intake tube to get all of gunk out and in the water and was quite surprised to see what came out! I have one plant and a terra cotta pot from my 10 gallon as well as a couple handfuls of gravel so hopefully they'll all work together to speed this cycle up. I'm also using pure ammonia to keep the bacteria alive.

I'm pretty excited to be doing a fishless cycle knowing that I'm not putting any fish in danger or miserable condition, but at the same time I'm so psyched to add fish that it's going to be tough!

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Well, Saturday I ran a full test on my tank. Here are the results: Ph = 6.8, Nitrites, Nitrates, and Ammonia = 0ppm. No surprises there I know, but I wanted a starting point to compare to. After I ran the first tests I added the first dose of pure ammonia. Yesterday, I added more and again this morning. I just ran the tests again all is the same except for the Ammonia which is reading .25ppm. So, I'm definitely well on my way!!

Quick question for those of you who have fishless cycled. I'm wondering how often you guys test and which tests do you run?

 

[rich311k]

I test for everything everyday when I am cycling. It probably is not necessary to run nitrates until you see nitrites. Try to keep your ammonia at 2 until you see nitrites then keep it a 1.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I generally only watch ammonia when I'm cycle. Then when it runs to 0ppm, I'll then watch both ammonia and nitrite. When both go to 0pp, in a day, I do a 50-75% pwc and add fish. As for the old filter, you can go ahead and kweep it in the XP3. Won't hurt anything. Actually, will do more good than anything.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Well, Saturday I ran a full test on my tank. Here are the results: Ph = 6.8, Nitrites, Nitrates, and Ammonia = 0ppm. No surprises there I know, but I wanted a starting point to compare to. After I ran the first tests I added the first dose of pure ammonia. Yesterday, I added more and again this morning. I just ran the tests again all is the same except for the Ammonia which is reading .25ppm. So, I'm definitely well on my way!!

Quick question for those of you who have fishless cycled. I'm wondering how often you guys test and which tests do you run?

Since you are doing a fishless cycle, the initial ammonia level should be brought up to at least 3ppm. Then once you see the nitrites come, drop the adding of ammonia to 1ppm.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Thanks for the info. This is a lot more difficult that I anticipated! Just the waiting part, not the actual cycle part. I wish it was all as simple as get some water and add some fish, but I'm determined to get it right doing a fishless cycle so I'm here for the long haul!!

I'm going on day 5 tomorrow and here are the most up to date (completed just minutes ago) test results: Ph = 7.0, Nitrate = 0ppm, Nitrite = 0ppm, Ammonia = .50ppm. I'll update again tomorrow.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Well, here are some more test results

Thursday 3/16/06:
Ph = 6.8 | Nitrite + Nitrate = 0ppm | Ammonia = 1ppm

Friday 3/17/06:
Ph = 6.8 | Nitrite = 0-.25ppm (not as bright blue as it had been, it had a slight purplish tint to it) | Nitrate = 0ppm | Ammonia = 1ppm

Saturday 3/18/06: (Will test again later today)
Ph = 6.8 | Nitrate = 0ppm | Nitrite 0-.25ppm (much more of a purple tint, but not quite t .25ppm yet) | Ammonia = 1ppm

My question now, is that it was suggested to make my Ammonia rise to at least 3ppm. It's been sitting at 1ppm for a few days now. Should I add more Ammonia to make it rise or just continue what I'm doing? I don't want to add to much ammonia, but I also want to get it right the first time around!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I would raise it to 3ppm. Then let it sit and don't add more til it reaches 0ppm. Once it does reach 0ppm, and you have nitrites, then just bump it up to 1-1.5ppm each time, til you are cycled

 

[7Enigma]

GouramiFanatic,

The reasoning behind raising the level to 3ppm is to make sure that every single bacterium always has a constant supply of ammonia. Since you have no fish in the tank, there is no reason why you wouldn't want to bump the level up to 3ppm. There is a point at which too much ammonia will stall the cycle, but it is well above 3ppm.

Honestly 1ppm is probably fine, but if you raise it to 3ppm you will never have to worry about going to work/sleep and realizing later that you bottomed out. I cycled my 20g tank using all of the techniques you used in about 18days or so (can't remember anymore but it was slightly over 2 weeks). I dosed at 5ppm ammonia and tried to keep the number above 2.5 at all times until I had a good amount of nitrAte production. You have even more starting seed material, and your nitrItes are already rising so your on your way.

Definately bump the temp up in the tank, keep the lights off, and above all be patient. Every day I'd sqeeze the filter media a couple of times. I had a bag of substrate from a friends tank and every other day would squish it around and would be amazed at how cloudy it would make the water. You need as much water flow through that sponge as possible. I'd take the sponge and use it like a scouring pad scraping it over every possible surface in the tank. You will be seeding the glass, plants, and other objects which will then establish their own bacterial colonies.

Goodluck,

justin

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Ok - now I'm really confused. I did as you guys suggested yesterday and brought the Ammonia up to approx 3ppm. I just ran all of the tests again (9:00am) and here are the results....

3/19/06 - Ph = 7.0 | Ammonia = approx 3ppm (not quite matching 2 or 4, but definitely in between somewhere)| Nitrite = .25ppm | Nitrate = 5.0ppm

The Nitrites are clearly .25 now matching the exact color on the card. The Nitrates went from 0ppm to 5ppm overnight. How did this happen and is it a good thing for a bad thing?

I'll do as you mentioned and will leave the tank alone for now. I'll continue to test daily and will post updates along the way. Also, thanks for the ideas on the heat and squeezing the sponge. I've had the head set at 85° through this whole thing and I have been squeezing the sponge every morning as I wake up and again before I go to bed.

 

[7Enigma]

There is no way IMO that the nitrAtes could have jumped that much.

2 reasons:

-your ammonia is directly related to nitrAte production, it would have had to go to -2ppm for you to get 5ppm nitrAte.

-Even if you had 5ppm of ammonia to start, there is no way in 24 hours you can go from having no nitrAte to 5ppm nitrAte (even a fully cycled tank has a difficult time of doing this).

Have you done a PWC recently? Tap water can vary (after an atmospheric temp change, big rain, etc.) and you could have nitrAtes in the water. If you didn't do a PWC then I'm stumped because its just not possible to get more nitrAte than you put in in ammonia. 8O

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Nope, I haven't done any PWC on this tank yet. I'm still cycling it and I didn't want to disrupt it by doing an unnecessary water change.

I'm wondering if I somehow screwed up the Nitrate test from yesterday where I got the 0ppm reading? Maybe I screwed up on the number of drops or it just didn't look right comparing it to the chart or something. I don't know. I've been testing like crazy for the past couple of days so it's possible that I goofed at some point. I'll test Nitrates again right now to make sure today's reading it right.

 

[7Enigma]

I know from practice that the nitrAte test is the most sensitive to human error. If your using the AP master test kit like I have, you have to make sure bottle #2 is shaken well before using, and then you have to shake for a full minute after adding both chemicals. The first couple of times I tried the test during cycling I had wildly varying results. Get a stopwatch or watch a clock with a second hand and try to be as consistent as possible. Goodluck.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Well, I tested again and it says 5ppm still. The only thing that I can think of is that I made an error yesterday and there most likely was a reading on it. I wish I could go back in time and see what I did.


************ EDIT : 8:51pm EST ******************
I just tested again to see if anything changed and here are the results;

Ph= 7.0 | Ammonia = 2-4ppm | Nitrite = .50ppm (which has gone up) | Nitrate = 5.0ppm

So, everything stayed the same except for the Nitrite which went up from .25 to .50ppm. I'm still confused with the Nitrate thing, but it looks like I'm going in the right direction anyway... or at least I hope!

 

[GouramiFanatic]

************ EDIT : 8:51pm EST ******************
I just tested again to see if anything changed and here are the results;

Ph= 7.0 | Ammonia = 2-4ppm | Nitrite = .50ppm (which has gone up) | Nitrate = 5.0ppm

So, everything stayed the same except for the Nitrite which went up from .25 to .50ppm. I'm still confused with the Nitrate thing, but it looks like I'm going in the right direction anyway... or at least I hope!

Nothing changed overnight. Should I do a PWC since I'm testing positive for all 3 or is this only necessary when there are fish involved?