Stalled fishless cycle?

[cj gal]

Hello. I am new to this forum, but not new to fishkeeping. I am helping my teenage son cycle a 55 gal.

We started the cycle 7 weeks ago, dosing the tank with ammonia to 7ppm, with no biological "starter" from an established tank. He added StressZyme (which I know is useless for cycling).

We saw nitrites a week or so into the cycle, and nitrates a week or so after that. (I'm sorry, but he didn't keep an records...) Everything stayed the same from there. We weren't in hurry to finish the cycle, because we were going to be gone for a week over the holidays and didn't want it to finish while we were gone,so we decided to wait it out.

When we got back from our trip, everything was the same as when we left. Ammonia hadn't budged for weeks, and Nitrite around 0.25ppm and nitrate at 5ppm. I thought maybe the ammonia was too high for the cycle to work properly so he did a 50% WC, bringing the ammonia level down to 3ppm. That was on 12/29.

The ammonia stayed at 3 ppm for 2 weeks, with nitrites coming back up to .25, and nitrate to 5ppm soon after the WC and staying there.

On Saturday, 1/14, he did another 50% wc, and added ammonia back up to 3ppm.. Nitrite .15 ppm, Nitrate 5.0

1/16: Amm 3, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate ?
1/17: Amm 1.5, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 7.0
1/18: Amm 1.5, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 7.0

I am beginning to doubt everything! Am I even reading the tests accurately?--these color comparisons seem so subjective...

Any thoughts as to why it might be taking so long? And how is it possible to have nitrites and nitrates appearing and no change in ammonia levels?

Any insight would be appreciated!

BTW: tap water is 0 ammo, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate and very soft. Ph from tap is 6.8, from tank after last water change was 8.0--don't know why the difference from the tap to tank.

 

[LyndaB]

Welcome to the forum.

I've never done a cycle using ammonia, but I have read plenty of threads about it. I believe that the number you dose for is 4 ppm, 7 seems a tad high. This might have thrown you off, but I can't say for sure. He's dosing every day?

Let's see what others have to say regarding the ammonia thing.

You're showing nitrates of 7? Odd number, what test kit are you using?

 

[cj gal]

Yes, my research said that 7.0 ppm might be too high, that's why we did a pwc on 12/29--to bring the ammonia down to 3-4ppm range.

I am using the API master kit. The 7ppm comes from me judging the color to be between 5.0 and 10ppm on the chart. Wish they'd make a test with more concrete results instead of these color comparisons...a lot depends on how your turn the tube towards to the light, etc.. LOL

Thanks for your quick reply!

 

[jack36547]

I've always brought my temperature up to about 85, and I only feed when the ammonia levels drop. I don't think the bacteria require feeding daily. That may be the problem, just too much ammonia going into the tank.

 

[jetajockey]

I think the soft water might be more of an issue than the ammonia concentration. Check your pH again today. Checking it straight from the tap, or shortly after a WC is not going to give you an accurate reading, it needs time to equalize.

 

[caitlynnanne9189]

I'm currently cycling and one thing I was told to do after about 2/3 weeks and minimal changes is to purchase an active filter from angelsplus.com that has bb in it already. I just received it today. Another thing is the ammonia could have been to high and thrown stuff off. 4ppm is where you want to be. If higher than that do a pwc. Also if you have a heater turn it up all the way. About 85-86 is what mine is at and what I've been told. Since your tap is not an issue it could be the dechlorinator or water conditioner your using. Also make sure there's nothing in the room that could get in the water such as an air freshener.

Keep us posted!

 

[cj gal]

We only added ammonia after the wc to bring the level up to 3-4ppm...we have only added ammonia twice--at the beginning of the cycle, and after the second water change. What seems weird is the ammonia levels stays constant while the nitrite/ates increase to a certain level and then remain constant...

I will test the pH again and check back in...

 

[cj gal]

I'm currently cycling and one thing I was told to do after about 2/3 weeks and minimal changes is to purchase an active filter from angelsplus.com that has bb in it already. I just received it today. Another thing is the ammonia could have been to high and thrown stuff off. 4ppm is where you want to be. If higher than that do a pwc. Also if you have a heater turn it up all the way. About 85-86 is what mine is at and what I've been told. Since your tap is not an issue it could be the dechlorinator or water conditioner your using. Also make sure there's nothing in the room that could get in the water such as an air freshener.

Keep us posted!

Thanks, I will look into angelsplus...
Temp is 86...heater turned up all the way...
NO dechlorinator used ever (well water)
My son put in Stresszyme to "help it cycle faster" (against my advice). But that wouldn't actually stall the cycle, would it?
Ammonia hasn't been above 4 ppm since 12/29 (2.5 weeks)

 

[cj gal]

I think the soft water might be more of an issue than the ammonia concentration. Check your pH again today. Checking it straight from the tap, or shortly after a WC is not going to give you an accurate reading, it needs time to equalize.

Just checked the tank pH again and it is 7.6

What effect would the soft water have cycling?

 

[cj gal]

and if soft water is a problem, how can I remedy it?

 

[jetajockey]

It is just an indicator of a potential issue. pH tends to drop as nitrification occurs if the water isn't buffered well (i.e. soft water), so it's important to replenish the minerals or buffer the water to make sure that angle is covered. As the pH drops, nitrification also slows down, and eventually stalls, so it's good to keep it stable.

It's probably not an issue with a fish-in cycle, or after the tank is stocked and running, it's just a problem that tends to pop up with fishless cycling. My theory is that it's mainly due to the level of ammonia that is dosed into the tank, 4ppm+ is a lot of ammonia, and eventually creates a lot of conversion, more so than what would happen in a normally stocked tank.

As to what you can do about it, there are a few things, but if you are sticking with the 4ppm dosing and the fishless cycle then your best bet is to add some crushed coral or dolomite to the system to raise the gh.

 

[cj gal]

OK, I've just ordered SeaChem Replenish after reading some posts here about soft water and trace minerals...

Also, I've been doing some reading about the active filters from Angels Plus, and may just order one of them too. Anyone have experience with them and did they start a stalled cycle?

Thanks for all your input...I welcome any other ideas or advice too!

 

[cj gal]

It is just an indicator of a potential issue. pH tends to drop as nitrification occurs if the water isn't buffered well (i.e. soft water), so it's important to replenish the minerals or buffer the water to make sure that angle is covered. As the pH drops, nitrification also slows down, and eventually stalls, so it's good to keep it stable.

It's probably not an issue with a fish-in cycle, or after the tank is stocked and running, it's just a problem that tends to pop up with fishless cycling. My theory is that it's mainly due to the level of ammonia that is dosed into the tank, 4ppm+ is a lot of ammonia, and eventually creates a lot of conversion, more so than what would happen in a normally stocked tank.

As to what you can do about it, there are a few things, but if you are sticking with the 4ppm dosing and the fishless cycle then your best bet is to add some crushed coral or dolomite to the system to raise the gh.

Thanks. I will check in to that as well.

 

[jetajockey]

I tested the angelsplus active filter a couple of years ago and have been recommending it since. It worked well the times I tried it, and the people that run the business are friendly and knowledgeable.

 

[caitlynnanne9189]

I will be starting mine tomorrow and I've seen little change at all minimal ammonia drop in 2 weeks and no nitrite changes or nitrate changes. I'll let you know how it goes! I've been told all good things about them. I ordered the 4" sponge because it's a minimum order of 8 and the 3" is only 7.75.

 

[LyndaB]

The 7ppm comes from me judging the color to be between 5.0 and 10ppm on the chart.

Just go by the increments they have listed when asked for your readings. If it's above "5", it's "10" and so on.

Find one light source that gives you consistent lighting. In other words, don't use sunlight.

Place the tube vertically against the color card. Hold up to the light and look for the solid stripe that comes down the back of the tube, rather than the liquid itself. Match up the stripe to your card choices and voila, consistent readings.

 

[caitlynnanne9189]

This is what an angels plus filter does! I put in in the tank last night at 10 and my results just now!

 

[cj gal]

Wow, Caitlyn! Did you have any nitrites/nitrates before?

I got the Seachem Replenish today and added it. I did order the seeded filter last night, so I should be getting that in a few days. Hoping that between those two, we can get things moving.

I did test again today and everything was the same as yesterday.

 

[librarygirl]

Wow, Caitlyn! Did you have any nitrites/nitrates before?

I got the Seachem Replenish today and added it. I did order the seeded filter last night, so I should be getting that in a few days. Hoping that between those two, we can get things moving.

I did test again today and everything was the same as yesterday.

A bit odd for 7 weeks, you should be further along by now. You say you're using well water and haven't used any dechlorinator: are you sure there aren't any heavy metals in the water? It might be useful to use a dechlorinator anyway just in case. Is there sufficient oxygen getting into the tank from either an air stone or from the filters splashing water into the tank? Seachem Replenish can be used, generally it's not needed as the minerals it adds should be in your water already but it won't hurt anything to use it and if it helps, all the better. The Angels Plus filter should help immensely as well but I'd also add dechlorinator just to rule out any potential issues with your water inhibiting the bacteria and making sure there's sufficient oxygen exchange in the tank. Let's hope we can get things moving!

 

[caitlynnanne9189]

I had very minimal results before the filter from angels plus. My ammonia was barly dropping and then the nitrites were maybe 1ppm and nitrates were only like .5ppm. The filter really helped!

I woke up this morning and tested.
Ammonia: 1ppm
nitrites: off the charts
Nitrates: climbed to 60ppm.

All this just from yesterday!