Started ten gallon kit, now what? :)

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AquaMan779

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Dec 26, 2022
Messages
39
I set up a new ten gallon kit last Thursday. I added the api water conditioner, api quick start, and fritz's fishless fuel.

Ph is around 7.4
Ammonia is at around 3.0 ppm (was 4.0 ppm before)
Nitrite at 0 ppm
Nitrate at 0 ppm

I have a sand substrate and a plant (might be java fern) attached to what might be an imitation coconut shell that forms a cave. Plant seems to be growing already.

Is there anything I have to do now besides wait? I see some people talking about continuing to add ammonia, add bacteria or do water changes. I don't know what to do next.

Thanks for your help! :)
 
You are doing a fishless cycle. Ill post a thorough method of doing this. But essentially wait for the ammonia you have dosed to be cycled out, and when that has happened redose ammonia and wait for that ammonia to be cycled out. And when thats happened repeat. Keep repeating this process until you can dose 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later see zero ammonia and nitrite.
 
To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.

A fishless cycle uses an ammonia source to replicate the fish waste that a tank of fish would produce. This ammonia source can be pure ammonia, an aquarium specific ammonium chloride product like Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride, a cocktail shrimp or fish food.

Ill assume we are using an ammonium chloride product.

Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. If you have an adjustable heater raise the temperature to 28c/82.5f.

You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Dose the ammonia chloride to approx 4ppm and start testing daily for ammonia. Once your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose it back to 2ppm. This may take a couple of weeks.

Start to test daily for ammonia and nitrite. Whenever your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose it back to 2ppm. Nitrite causes false positive nitrate readings, so no point in testing for nitrate until your cycle is complete. False positive results will just confuse matters.

You should start to see nitrite and in your daily tests. Over time your nitrite should start to rise and the amount of ammonia should start to drop further. Your ammonia may start to not be detectable in your daily tests. Keep redosing ammonia daily if you see it below 1ppm. Your nitrite may rise off the testing chart. I prefer to keep nitrite within measurable levels so it shouldn’t hurt to do a water change to keep readings on the chart. Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank.

Over time your nitrite should level off and begin to fall in a similar manner to what your ammonia tests did. When you are able to dose ammonia to 2ppm and 24 hours later see 0 ammonia and nitrite you are cycled. At this point you have enough denitrifying bacteria to consume all the ammonia and nitrite of a moderately stocked tank. You may want to continue dosing ammonia for a few days to make sure it continues to consume all the ammonia and nitrite and be sure your cycle has properly established before proceeding.

Your nitrate will likely be very high, so now test for nitrate. Do a big water change to get this down. Preferably below 10ppm. Adjust your temperature to the needs of your fish. Get your fish, acclimate and add to your tank. I would advise stocking lightly to start with and slowly adding fish until fully stocked.

A fishless cycle typically takes 6 to 8 weeks.

A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.

Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.
 
You are doing a fishless cycle. Ill post a thorough method of doing this. But essentially wait for the ammonia you have dosed to be cycled out, and when that has happened redose ammonia and wait for that ammonia to be cycled out. And when thats happened repeat. Keep repeating this process until you can dose 2ppm ammonia and 24 hours later see zero ammonia and nitrite.

That sounds easy enough! Thanks!
 
Thank you for that easy to follow form! Best I've seen on the internet!

After about a week of not seeing nitrites, I decided to add more quick start on Saturday. Test on Sunday came back at .25. I added again on Sunday and the test came back at .50 just now.

The ammonia decreased from around .25 to about .20 now. I won't be adding anymore quick start for a while to see if the ammonia continues to decrease, and hopefully the nitrites will as well. Any suggestions from you or anybody else out there would be much appreciated!

Thanks!
 
So my the suction cup on my heater was loose, and I didn't want it to touch the substrate, so I had to put my hand in the tank and touch the heater. When I did, I felt this film of some sort that separated and bits and pieces were all very the water. The filter cleared everything up but I'd like to know what it is. Part of me hopes this has something to do with beneficial bacteria, lol. Has anyone seen this before?

Thanks!
 
Its biofilm. Just an accumulation of bacteria, algae etc that collects on surfaces. Normal to find in aquariums.
 
Its biofilm. Just an accumulation of bacteria, algae etc that collects on surfaces. Normal to find in aquariums.


Thank you! Now I know what biofilm is. I've seen the term before and read that shrimp and snails help clean it off of everything in the tank.

Now I have a new question about ph. My reading is 6.0 and I read that this can stall the nitrogen cycle. I see that both crushed coral and baking soda can be used to raise the ph. Honestly, I do not want to spend almost ten dollars on a bag of crushed coral. I saw that people have used baking soda during the cycle and this was safe since no fish were there.

What has been your experience with this? :)
 
In all honesty I wouldn’t worry. About the nitrogen cycle. In fact you could do an experiment. If the nitrogen cycle was to truly stop then ammonia would start to build up.

You can keep testing the ammonia over the weeks and months and see what happens.
 
Low pH wont stall the nitrogen cycle. People keep fish in low pH tanks and cycle them just fine. What stalls a cycle is low carbonate hardness (KH), and low pH can be a symptom of low KH.

Your OP says your pH is above 7 so something is going on.

Double check the pH in the tank. Get a water report from your water supplier. What do they say your tap waters pH and KH are?

Baking soda and crushed coral are calcium carbonate. This will disolve in the water and add calcium which will increase your general hardness (GH) and carbonate which will increase your KH. The increased KH will in turn increase your pH. Baking soda will need to be added with every water change, whereas a bag of crushed coral in the filter will slowly dissolve and last a considerable amount of time before you need to replace it. An alternative to crushed coral is cuttlefish bone.

I have no personal experience of using baking soda, but im sure if you search the forum you can find a relevant thread or hopefully someone with first hand knowledge can assist. Its basically add a little monitor pH, add a bit more if needed etc.

But first lets get those water parameters from your water company. The processes that happen in a fish tank tend to acidify the water. A 7.6 drop down to 6 is a big drop though and is a sign of depleting KH, but as long as your water has a decent amount of KH, regular water changes may be all thats needed to replenish KH and keep your pH up.
 
In all honesty I wouldn’t worry. About the nitrogen cycle. In fact you could do an experiment. If the nitrogen cycle was to truly stop then ammonia would start to build up.

You can keep testing the ammonia over the weeks and months and see what happens.


Thank you for the quick response! I am learning that this community has more precise information than other sources on the internet. :) Many thanks!
 
Low pH wont stall the nitrogen cycle. People keep fish in low pH tanks and cycle them just fine. What stalls a cycle is low carbonate hardness (KH), and low pH can be a symptom of low KH.

Your OP says your pH is above 7 so something is going on.

Double check the pH in the tank. Get a water report from your water supplier. What do they say your tap waters pH and KH are?

Baking soda and crushed coral are calcium carbonate. This will disolve in the water and add calcium which will increase your general hardness (GH) and carbonate which will increase your KH. The increased KH will in turn increase your pH. Baking soda will need to be added with every water change, whereas a bag of crushed coral in the filter will slowly dissolve and last a considerable amount of time before you need to replace it. An alternative to crushed coral is cuttlefish bone.

I have no personal experience of using baking soda, but im sure if you search the forum you can find a relevant thread or hopefully someone with first hand knowledge can assist. Its basically add a little monitor pH, add a bit more if needed etc.

But first lets get those water parameters from your water company. The processes that happen in a fish tank tend to acidify the water. A 7.6 drop down to 6 is a big drop though and is a sign of depleting KH, but as long as your water has a decent amount of KH, regular water changes may be all thats needed to replenish KH and keep your pH up.


Thank you for the quick response! I called the water company and they did not have the KH, but they did give me this information on the water hardness:

"52 - 280 ppm. Average is 166 ppm"

Is this anything we can work with to find out the KH, or do I need more information?

I checked the ammonia, nitrites and PH today. Ammonia is either at 2.0 ppm, or maybe a little less than that. Nitrites are now somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm. PH appears to be closer to 6.4 than 6.0 now. I used a bottle of Aquafina water to top off the tank last week. I am wondering if that may have changed parameters a bit. I've been putting the tube over the colors and matching them on the card that way, which is hopefully giving me a more accurate reading.

Also wanted to tell you that your heavily planted tanks looks great! :)

Thanks!
 
Im staggered a water company doesnt know their carbonate hardness. And the general hardness is somewhere between soft and hard, thats not terribly useful of them.

Your ammonia has dropped from 4ppm to 2ppm over the last couple of weeks. Thats a little slow, but nothing to worry about. Id give it another week and see where things are before taking any intervention. If you really want to do something try a 50% water change, redose your ammonia to 2ppm and see where things go from there.

You are a couple of weeks into a couple of months process so no need to panic yet.
 
Im staggered a water company doesnt know their carbonate hardness. And the general hardness is somewhere between soft and hard, thats not terribly useful of them.

Your ammonia has dropped from 4ppm to 2ppm over the last couple of weeks. Thats a little slow, but nothing to worry about. Id give it another week and see where things are before taking any intervention. If you really want to do something try a 50% water change, redose your ammonia to 2ppm and see where things go from there.

You are a couple of weeks into a couple of months process so no need to panic yet.

I forgot to mention that I added more fritz' fishless fuel and api quickstart about a week ago because I got impatient, lol. This time around I will stay with your recommendations and not add anything until the ammonia gets below 1.0 ppm. Only then will I add more ammonia. I might do the 50% water change though, since that will give me practice using the hygrr syphon and just the overall process of the weekly maintenance. Thanks again! :)
 
There has been a large amount of research ongoing in the last few years that suggest Ammonia Oxidising Bacteria (AOB) are not the key microorganisms responsible for the majority of nitrification in aquarium filters. It is actually Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA) and and these Archaea have a wide tolerance to pH.

If Archaea can operate at lower pH levels then it would stand to reason kH would be relatively low too if not near depleted.

From the studies I have seen, it would appear that AOB are more prevalent at higher ammonia loadings such as is found in wastewater treatments scenarios. This bacteria do use the carbonate hardness but there is no evidence to suggest that the AOB can’t also use co2 as their inorganic carbon source like the AOA.

The studies that show AOA have ammonia loadings in the micro grams. It is possible that fishless cycles encourage the growth of AOB such as are found in wastewater or a whole other suite of microbes for that matter which could be why the cycle stalls when ammonia loading is higher and the KH is used up. AOB also prefer ammonia as their total N whereas AOA are shown to favour ammonium.

The point of all this is to say that the work of Dr Hanovec and the notion that nitrification stalls at certain pH and KH levels is outdated or perhaps based on data from wastewater treatment and what happens in aquarium filters is completely different. There fishless cycles in my opinion and to be honest from day one have always been a pointless exercise. Dr Hanovec himself has indicated that production methods have changed over the years.

We need to ensure we are moving forward with regards to the science and be careful that we do not continue giving out outdated information regarding the cycling of the aquarium or how certain parameters impact the system.

One thing is for sure is that both AOB and AOA cannot oxidise without the presence of oxygen and therefore this in my opinion is the most important metric.

If you are worried about KH you will need to spend the money on crushed coral and leave a bit in your filter. This should almost indefinitely last and put your mind at ease.

From someone who performs very irregular water changes with KH depleted water (rain, RO) I know from recent information I needn’t fear the old tank syndrome effect. I keep soft water fish in soft water and an abundance of very healthy plants which are fed at the substrate level and with fish and fish food. This is real balance.
 
There has been a large amount of research ongoing in the last few years that suggest Ammonia Oxidising Bacteria (AOB) are not the key microorganisms responsible for the majority of nitrification in aquarium filters. It is actually Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA) and and these Archaea have a wide tolerance to pH.

If Archaea can operate at lower pH levels then it would stand to reason kH would be relatively low too if not near depleted.

From the studies I have seen, it would appear that AOB are more prevalent at higher ammonia loadings such as is found in wastewater treatments scenarios. This bacteria do use the carbonate hardness but there is no evidence to suggest that the AOB can’t also use co2 as their inorganic carbon source like the AOA.

The studies that show AOA have ammonia loadings in the micro grams. It is possible that fishless cycles encourage the growth of AOB such as are found in wastewater or a whole other suite of microbes for that matter which could be why the cycle stalls when ammonia loading is higher and the KH is used up. AOB also prefer ammonia as their total N whereas AOA are shown to favour ammonium.

The point of all this is to say that the work of Dr Hanovec and the notion that nitrification stalls at certain pH and KH levels is outdated or perhaps based on data from wastewater treatment and what happens in aquarium filters is completely different. There fishless cycles in my opinion and to be honest from day one have always been a pointless exercise. Dr Hanovec himself has indicated that production methods have changed over the years.

We need to ensure we are moving forward with regards to the science and be careful that we do not continue giving out outdated information regarding the cycling of the aquarium or how certain parameters impact the system.

One thing is for sure is that both AOB and AOA cannot oxidise without the presence of oxygen and therefore this in my opinion is the most important metric.

If you are worried about KH you will need to spend the money on crushed coral and leave a bit in your filter. This should almost indefinitely last and put your mind at ease.

From someone who performs very irregular water changes with KH depleted water (rain, RO) I know from recent information I needn’t fear the old tank syndrome effect. I keep soft water fish in soft water and an abundance of very healthy plants which are fed at the substrate level and with fish and fish food. This is real balance.

After reading your post, I really do think that the Aquafina might have changed the hardness of the water when I topped off the tank after the levels went down due to testing and evaporation. I checked online and saw that they use RO to purify the tap water that they sell.

I've kept fish on four separate occasions and have to say I was pretty bad on them. First time was when I was a kid and won a goldfish at a fair. My father got a tank for me, either a ten or a twenty gallon I think. My uncle took care of the tank. I remember us going to the fish store every couple of weekends and getting new fish like they were some kind of toys. I believe my father asked the people at the store what they needed, so we did the best we knew how since there was no internet back then. My uncle used to empty out all the water and refill the tank with new water when we "cleaned" the tank. I also remember wanting to reenact a Thundercats episode with my toys and the real fish in the tank and waiting until only my mom was home to do so. The fish soon died after that, so that was my fault as a kid. :( We never replaced them because I guess I lost interest, or maybe because my uncle moved out and my dad didn't want to do all the stuff with the tank

Next time I got fish was in my early twenties. We did have the internet by that time, and I did do some research. I vaguely remember seeing something about the nitrogen cycle, but didn't want to wait that long. (I wanted the fish to keep me busy after me feeling bad over a girl I liked.) I saw the quickstart that said you can add fish immediately so I used that. I also remember the tank was a twenty gallon because I read that that's the best tank size for a beginner, so I guess I was trying to do the right thing. I got two orange fish with the black swordtail. The tank unfortunately had a leak, so I had to get a new tank.

Here is probably my most egregious mistake as a fishkeeper. I got an acrylic 2 1/2 gallon hexagonal tank because I knew it wouldn't leak (something like this, except I believe it had a hood with a light). It had a grate that went underneath the gravel and a tube with an airstone that I thought was a filter. The swordfish soon died and I got two goldfish to replace them. They actually lived 2 1/2 years in those cramped conditions.

About a year after they died, I got a betta that I kept on my desk at work. The "tank" was actually only a 1 1/2 gallon travel container (sort of like this). I can't remember if it came with the gravel and plastic plant, but I figured it was good enough for a betta since they kept them in those little cups at the store. I think this "tank" also had the grate and airstone in a tube combination. The betta actually lived for over a year, maybe almost two. I remember taking out the plant because I wanted to see him swim around. I should have done my research on that. I did not know that he needed a hiding place to feel comfortable. And I knew from my first tank as a kid that he should probably have a heater but I never got one because I sat by the heating in the office.

I guess I wrote all that down because I want to make sure that I'm doing the very best for my fish this time around. We may not need to do a fishless cycle anymore, but I am uncertain if I can do what's best for the fish like that.

Thanks for your scientific information. I learned a lot and will be much better this time around! :)
 
You’re very welcome here.

Please note that after misunderstanding most tank issues arise from alterations with the best intentions in mind. I have made countless mistakes. I still make them now. The thing about mistakes is that’s how we learn. If we did everything right all the time and things just worked we would never learn or asked questions.

I remember my first tank when I was 17. 20 litre, pleco, angelfish, catfish barbs, bogwood, leaving the light on all night, plants rotting and dying all the time. I remember we had an electrical fault with the emersion switch on the landing that was causing electricity to ark and burn the plastic. My mum swore that the ‘fishy’ smell was my fish tank. I told her it definitely wasn’t and over-cleaned it religiously to prove it to her. When we called an electrician out he found the problem and asked us both if we could smell a ‘fishy smell’ we both laughed and my mum had to apologise.

You’re doing great. I have always had issues with fishless cycles because they nearly always cause more issues than they aim to solve. If you understand how, you can start a tank with fish straight off the bat, but you must stock very slowly to allow the microorganisms to catch up. It’s very easy to do it this way.

Just to add to the above. There has also been a single organism called a complete ammonia oxidiser or COMAMMOX a type of Nitrospira. This fella can go from ammonia straight to nitrate completely skipping the nitrite stage.

Stick with it and understand that high ammonia dosings will likely require KH addition. However, once you have ‘cycled’ the microbes are going to shift to a new assemblage when you add fish anyway. You could also reset the ammonia with water changes and begin stocking. Small, fish one school per week or two until you’re fully stocked. Water change as you see fit in between.
 
You’re very welcome here.

Please note that after misunderstanding most tank issues arise from alterations with the best intentions in mind. I have made countless mistakes. I still make them now. The thing about mistakes is that’s how we learn. If we did everything right all the time and things just worked we would never learn or asked questions.

I remember my first tank when I was 17. 20 litre, pleco, angelfish, catfish barbs, bogwood, leaving the light on all night, plants rotting and dying all the time. I remember we had an electrical fault with the emersion switch on the landing that was causing electricity to ark and burn the plastic. My mum swore that the ‘fishy’ smell was my fish tank. I told her it definitely wasn’t and over-cleaned it religiously to prove it to her. When we called an electrician out he found the problem and asked us both if we could smell a ‘fishy smell’ we both laughed and my mum had to apologise.

You’re doing great. I have always had issues with fishless cycles because they nearly always cause more issues than they aim to solve. If you understand how, you can start a tank with fish straight off the bat, but you must stock very slowly to allow the microorganisms to catch up. It’s very easy to do it this way.

Just to add to the above. There has also been a single organism called a complete ammonia oxidiser or COMAMMOX a type of Nitrospira. This fella can go from ammonia straight to nitrate completely skipping the nitrite stage.

Stick with it and understand that high ammonia dosings will likely require KH addition. However, once you have ‘cycled’ the microbes are going to shift to a new assemblage when you add fish anyway. You could also reset the ammonia with water changes and begin stocking. Small, fish one school per week or two until you’re fully stocked. Water change as you see fit in between.

Thank you for making me feel at home and your kind words! :)

And thank you for sharing your experiences. I was a little hesitant to share about my poor fishkeeping from the past. I don't think yours fell into that category, but I appreciate you making me feel better.

Starting off a tank with fish does not seem as difficult as I thought after seeing you explain everything.

Much appreciated! :)
 
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