Starter fish advice?

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Blu3Shyft

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
65
Location
Spokane, WA
So I'm setting up a 46 gallon tank for my daughter's birthday next month, and we're trying to decide on what kinds of fish we'd like in it. I want something flashy for her, but we also want something special for everybody else.

So far we like an Albino Longfin Pleco, that a local shop raises, and one each Koi Angel and Blue Angel as centerpieces, and possibly a couple Kuhli Loaches.

Other types we like:

Apisto Cockatoo
Austraile Killifish
Badis
Swordtails
Harlequin Sailfin Molly
Blue Ram
Ghost Shrimp or Triops Australiensis(?)
Upside down catfish
Demasoni cichlid
Redtail Shark


Advice and suggestions are greatly appreciated.:thanks:
 
So I'm setting up a 46 gallon tank for my daughter's birthday next month, and we're trying to decide on what kinds of fish we'd like in it. I want something flashy for her, but we also want something special for everybody else.

So far we like an Albino Longfin Pleco, that a local shop raises, and one each Koi Angel and Blue Angel as centerpieces, and possibly a couple Kuhli Loaches.

Other types we like:

Apisto Cockatoo
Austraile Killifish
Badis
Swordtails
Harlequin Sailfin Molly
Blue Ram
Ghost Shrimp or Triops Australiensis(?)
Upside down catfish
Demasoni cichlid
Redtail Shark

Advice and suggestions are greatly appreciated.:thanks:

I'm happy your researching before you buy!

The demasoni and red tail shark wouldn't work out. Scarlet badis are nano fish that do well with other nano fish. In a 46g you could do

2 angelfish-
3 swordtails (1m 2f)
3 mollies (1m 2f)
1 German blue ram
1 apistogramma
8 Cory cats
2 schools of 6 small schooling fish.
Or 12-14 of 1 type of schooling fish.

If you decide to the 12-14 schooling fish, I'd do cardinal tetras. Very brightly colored and your daughter should love them!
 
And from the fish you like, I would HIGHLY recommend planting your tank. All those fish I listed love live plants. If you just have the starter lighting, you could a Anubias, crypts, java moss and java ferns. Maybe some types of swords.
 
Thanks for the input! I'm not sure I want that many cory cats, though. Unless bottom feeders in general would fit the bill? Also, the Badis I was thinking of is the Badis Badis, the blueish version. I was thinking of having an average size for most of the fish be between 3-5 inches, with the Angels hopefully getting to around the 6" mark.
 
Thanks for the input! I'm not sure I want that many cory cats, though. Unless bottom feeders in general would fit the bill? Also, the Badis I was thinking of is the Badis Badis, the blueish version. I was thinking of having an average size for most of the fish be between 3-5 inches, with the Angels hopefully getting to around the 6" mark.

Just be warned, they are difficult to feed.

Cory cats are about the only bottom feeder that would work well.

For a beginner tank, I'd stick with my stocking list.

What type of lights and filter do you have?
 
Don't have any lights or filter yet. I was going to go with a fluorescent multiple light setup. One for normal daytime viewing, and a 'moonlight', if I can find one. For filter, I was planning on a 'backpack' type with the capacity for a bigger tank, just to be sure it can keep up with whatever we stick in the tank.
 
I would skip the badis badis for now as they can be pretty difficult to house in community tanks as they are very easily outcompeted for food. They do better in tanks either with their own species or less boisterous tankmates. A honey or pearl gourami would be a nice addition for a little color.
 
Don't have any lights or filter yet. I was going to go with a fluorescent multiple light setup. One for normal daytime viewing, and a 'moonlight', if I can find one. For filter, I was planning on a 'backpack' type with the capacity for a bigger tank, just to be sure it can keep up with whatever we stick in the tank.

I would suggest getting lights that can support plants. All the fish you like, need/like to have planted tanks.

I would look at a canister filter for it also. Maybe a sunsun or aquatop filter off of amazon. Aquaclear Hang on back filters are really good too.
 
You might want to rethink the Triops. At best they are only going to live fourteen weeks. They are a species that has evolved to survive very harsh conditions, so they live only long enough to lay enough eggs, then die. The eggs hatch, and the next generation carries on, when conditions allow.

When new hatched, most fish are going to eat them as food. If you want them, they need their own container, without fish.

Ghost shrimp are the easiest of shrimp to keep, but like all shrimp, they need a well established tank with plenty of biofilm, which takes at least several months to grow in. It is not the same as cycling, it's simply a bacterial film that grows and there's a relationship between fish, shrimp and biofilm that is not entirely clear. Shrimp eat it, some fish eat it, but it is not just a food source. It's lack can mean some species won't live long no matter what you do. So patience pays off with shrimp, loaches and a number of other species.

Kuhli loaches are very attractive and I keep a lot of them. But if you want to 'see' the loaches, get Black kuhlis. They don't have the pretty stripes, but you'll see them often, even in the day, even when it's not feeding time. They often chase each other in vertical circles, somewhat like a ferris wheel, fun to watch. All the kuhli type loaches need a group of their own to do well. Three is the bare minimum, six is much, much better. The more you have the happier they are and the more you will see them. They need plenty of hiding places, and you must use reasonably smooth rocks, wood or other decor, becase they have a habit of squeezing into the smallest cracks, and can damage themselves badly by being scraped on rough surfaces. They also like to burrow, so a fine grain substrate with smooth grains is needed for them, and also for cories, to prevent wear and tear not only on skin but on the barbels on their chins.

One or two loaches alone will hide nearly all the time and rarely be seen by anyone, sadly.

Badis can be hard to get, and while they are pretty peaceful, they're not what I'd consider a beginner fish. Difficult to feed and keep happy. They need an established tank to do well, not a newly cycled one.

The blue rams can be peaceful, but they can also be pushy, and are most surely not a beginner fish. They are quite picky about ideal conditions, and I would not take them on even though I have kept fish for many years. They can be ok in a community tank but for newbies just not

The apistogramma is also not at all for beginners. Picky about their conditions, can be aggressive.

Of the fish you are liking so far, the best community fish are the mollies and swords. They can all grow to a fair size, four inches or so, and you have to plan for them to be that size, not buy lots now and then have to get rid of some when they get too large. The sex ratio is ok, but 3 girls to one boy might be even better. They are tolerant and not nearly so picky about ideal water conditions or biofilm as the other fish you like are.

Cories are also quite hardy.. six is enough for decent group, if you can, two boys to four girls is a nice ratio. Long fin cories are easier to sex, the boys have much higher dorsal fins than the girls do. Regular fins, boys are slimmer, females more rounded seen from above, not the side.

If you start with fish like the livebearers, mollies and swords, and wait awhile, you can get the loaches and shrimp a bit later on, when the biofilm has grown in.

Angel fish are lovely. I like them so much, and if you are fortunate to get a pair that mates, you may get eggs. Even females will lay eggs without a male partner, but of course they won't hatch. But some Angel fish can be aggressive, while others won't be. Try getting two the same size and with any luck they will get on fine.

All fish need clean water, a well maintained filter, and most look best with a nicely planted tank too. Plants need not be high maintenance, nor need extreme light, but pick the ones that don't have high needs, like anacharis, anubias, java ferns, valisnerias, among many.

Make sure the tank is cycled first. It can take several weeks to cycle a tank, so be prepared for that time frame. Adding many fish to an uncycled tank just results in dead fish, which not only costs money, it is very disappointing, especially to children.

You add fish only a few at a time, so the filter can grow more of the BB, beneficial bacteria, that change fish waste from toxic ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite, also very toxic, to nitrate. Nitrate is used by plants, but is controlled by regular partial water changes.

If you don't like lugging buckets, you may want to consider investing in a Python or Aqueon water change system. Not cheap, but no bucket lugging can make maintenance much less of a chore. Used to change water, clean the gravel, add new water.

You will also need a water test kit. API makes a master kit, cheaper than buying the basics separately. Seachem makes tests too, there are several brands. Seachem's ammonia test is a better one, IMO, because it tells you how much free[ dangerous] ammonia there is and how much ammonium [ chemically bound and not dangerous in most cases] there is. API test shows total ammonia, both of these together, and it may seem you have a low level of ammonia to worry over when in fact you don't.

Test your tap water so you know what you have to work with. Tap water is often hard and alkaline, so it is by far easier to keep fish that like this kind of water. Tetras and Angels prefer softer, more acidic water, but the thing to remember is that fish, for the most part, are quite adaptable. Most are better off in water that may not have the ideal pH or hardness, but does remain stable all the time. Constant swings or changes of pH, hardness or other parameters is stressful and may shorten lives, or end them. Stable tanks always do better, and have happier fish, than those that are meddled with all the time in pursuit of the 'exact, ideal' pH or whatever.
 
I don't think the budget is there for a sunsun. Maybe the Aquaclear. The one/style I was planning on is the Aqueon QuietFlow 55/75 from Petsmart.

I think I will skip the Badis badis. Maybe in favor of a gourami or two. Does anybody have any experience with Kuhli Loaches? Would they work well with a couple of corys in the bottom feeder category?
 
I don't think the budget is there for a sunsun. Maybe the Aquaclear. The one/style I was planning on is the Aqueon QuietFlow 55/75 from Petsmart.

I think I will skip the Badis badis. Maybe in favor of a gourami or two. Does anybody have any experience with Kuhli Loaches? Would they work well with a couple of corys in the bottom feeder category?

A sunsun filter is 50$ shipped...

The user above made rams and apistogramma seem a lot harder then they are. If you wait 6 months before getting them and keep up with water changes, you'll be fine.

I'd choose either corys or kuhlis. Corys are more active and hide a lot less.
 
Sorry, I'm about to rain a bit on your parade, but it is in the best interests of both the fish, your pocketbook and success.

You might want to rethink the Triops. Though they are quite interesting, at best they are only going to live about fourteen weeks, longevity depends on the exact species. They have evolved to survive very harsh conditions, so they live only long enough to lay sufficient numbers of eggs, then die. The eggs hatch, and the next generation carries on, when conditions allow. So you don't have shrimp to watch a lot of the time.

And when they are newly hatched, most fish are going to eat them as food. If you want them, they need their own container, without fish. This is true of most fish, that they will eat almost anything that will fit into their mouths, such as baby fish,aka fry.

You may want to look at some of the danio species. Gold Zebra danios are very pretty, bright, hardy, lively, shoaling more than schooling, tending to stay near the top levels except if they are spawning. Kyathit danio come in two colour forms. The spotted one is lovely. Gold body, big dark spots like a leopard. There is also a Leopard danio, with tiny spots on a paler body, the long fin version has a lot of yellow on the ends of the fins. Sexing is possible, females are always rounder and fuller in the belly, males are slimmer and more torpedo shaped. Never buy any that look really skinny or bent or have deformed spines, as with many fish today, they are highly inbred and genetic defects are not uncommon.

Long fins are available in many danio species. Only the Giant danio gets big. Four inches or so. Pearl danios can get close to three inches, the others max out at two inches or less. There's also the Celestial pearl danio, known by at least two other names as well. A tiny fish, males dark blue with white spots that look like stars in the sky, females much lighter blue, same spots, just harder to see. Mid level swimmers that only feed in mid levels, so must have food that will sink to their level. Very pretty, but like quiet water and are not so happy with big or lively tank mates.

Some rasboras are very colourful, and small. Easier to keep than tetras, tolerant of harder alkaline water more so than tetras are. Lambchop rasbora is the colour of a new penny with a black mark on the side shaped like a lambchop.

Beckford's Pencil fish, while not the brightest of colours, are fun. Two inches or so, females have a black stripe down the middle, males have that on a darker background with bright red fins and a red spot on the belly. Two males showing off or displaying, will wriggle by each other and those red spots and fins will just glow, as if they are plugged in. Never fight, only show off. One male to three females, and best to have seven or so total. Plenty of plants to break up sight lines so two males do not see each other all the time and display to each other too much.

Ghost shrimp are the easiest of shrimp to keep, but they don't have baby shrimp that look like they do. They have larvae, most of which don't survive, though some may well make it. Their eggs float to the surface, hatch and four days later, give or take, morph into very tiny shrimplets. Most are eaten or sucked into the filter. Placing a prefilter made of sponge on the filter intake can prevent being sucked up, with shrimp and fry alike.

Like all shrimp, they need a well established tank with plenty of biofilm, which takes at least several months to grow. It is not the same as cycling, it's simply a bacterial film that grows and there's a relationship between the animals and biofilm that is not entirely clear. Shrimp eat it, some fish eat it, but it is not just a food source. Its lack can mean some species won't live long no matter what you do. So patience pays off with shrimp, loaches and a number of other species. If the research says not to add a species to a new tank, this is why. It should be respected, as it can make quite a difference to how long fish or shrimp live.

Kuhli loaches are very attractive and I keep a lot of them. But if you want to 'see' the loaches, might want to get Black kuhlis. They don't have the pretty stripes, but you'll see them often, even in the day, even when it's not feeding time. They often chase each other in vertical circles, somewhat like a ferris wheel, fun to watch. Much less secretive than the striped kuhlis are.

All the kuhli type loaches need a group of their own to do well. Three is the bare minimum, six is much, much better. The more you have the happier they are and the more you will see them. They need plenty of hiding places, and you must use reasonably smooth rocks, wood or other decor, because they have a habit of squeezing into the smallest cracks, and can damage themselves badly, being scraped on rough surfaces. They also like to burrow, so a fine grain substrate with smooth grains is needed for them, and also for cories, to prevent wear and tear not only on skin but on the barbels on their chins, which they use to help find food.

One or two loaches alone will hide nearly all the time and rarely be seen by anyone, sadly. Cories kept in singles or pairs often hide a lot too.

Badis can be hard to get, and while they are pretty peaceful, they're not what I'd consider a beginner fish. Only the males have colour, females are quite dull. They can be difficult to feed and keep happy, quite picky over water parameters. They need an established tank to do well, also a heavily planted tank is best for them.

The German blue rams can be peaceful, but they can also be pushy, and are most surely not a beginner fish. They are quite picky about ideal parameters. Personally, I would not take them on even though I have kept fish for many years. For new keepers, not a fish I'd like to see you start with, as there is too much chance they won't do well.

The apistogramma is also not a great choice for beginners. Picky about their conditions, can be aggressive, need established tank.

Upsidedown catfish are another issue. Find out what species they actually are, as several are sold under this name. Most will want a school of their own, at least four fish, and they need softer, more acidic water than the livebearers do. Thus, they don't really do well as community fish in harder, alkaline water.

They are insect feeders mostly, in the wild, taking them from the surface, as well as grazers, so they do better with at least some live foods, which you may not be prepared to offer. The upside down catfish, while small as catfish go, also get to be about four inches or so, and if you have the school they need, it will mean not having some of the fish you want. There are plenty of cory species of catfish that are good with the same water as mollies or swords, so I'd stick with them for starters.

Of the fish you are liking so far, the best community fish are the mollies and swords and cories. The livebearers can all grow to a fair size, four inches or so, and you have to plan for them to be that size. The sex ratio is ok, but 3 girls to one boy might be even better. They are tolerant and not nearly so picky about ideal water conditions or biofilm as the other fish you like.

Cories are also quite hardy.. six is enough for decent group, if you can, two boys to four girls is a nice ratio. Long fin cories are easier to sex, the boys have much higher dorsal fins than the girls. Regular fins, boys are slimmer, females more rounded, when seen from above, not the side.

If you start with fish like the livebearers, [mollies and swords], or platies, and cories, and wait awhile, you can get the loaches and shrimp a bit later on, when the biofilm has grown in. Be sure to offer sinking foods for the bottom feeders. Keep food sealed from air, don't buy huge packages, as it does go off with time. Try some frozen foods, daphnia or Brine shrimp or even bloodworms. Fish love it and live or frozen food given a couple of times a week can make a big difference to growth, colour and health of all fish.

Angel fish are lovely. I like them so much, and if you are fortunate, you may get a pair that mates. Even unmated females may lay eggs. Often eggs get fungus and don't hatch, unless you make preparations to take care of them yourself. But it's fun to watch mated Angels. They'll want a spot to spawn, a slanted bit of slate or even Amazon sword leaves, which they use in nature, which the female cleans off before she lays. They will chase all other fish away from their site and continue to do so until after the eggs hatch, become wigglers, feeding off their yolk sacs, then swimmers. Parent fish, as with most cichlids, guard their kids, and parents will even move eggs if they don't like the first spot. If they start spawning, they are likely to continue doing so. They may pretty much take over their territory in the tank. At least it is large enough to allow for this. Some Angel fish can be aggressive, while others won't be. Try getting two the same size and with any luck they will get on fine, with each other & everybody else. Many of the newer, fancier colour forms are getting rather inbred as well, so keep an eye out for any deformities in the young ones.

All fish need clean water, a well maintained filter, and most look best with a nicely planted tank. Plants need not be high maintenance, nor need extreme light, but pick the ones that don't have high needs, like anacharis, anubias, java ferns, valisnerias, green sword plants, among many.

Make sure the tank is cycled first. It can take several weeks to cycle a tank, so be prepared for that time frame. Adding many fish to an uncycled tank just results in dead fish, which not only costs money, it is very disappointing, especially to children.

You add fish only a few at a time, so the filter can grow more of the BB, beneficial bacteria, that change fish waste from toxic ammonia to nitrite, then nitrite, also very toxic, to nitrate, to handle the new load of waste from new fish. Nitrate is used by plants, but levels are mainly controlled by regular partial water changes.

If you don't like lugging buckets, you may want to consider investing in a Python or Aqueon water change system. Not cheap, but no bucket lugging can make maintenance much less of a chore. Used to remove water, clean the gravel, add new water, directly to and from the tap at the sink.

You will also need a water test kit. API makes a master kit, cheaper than buying the basics separately. Seachem makes tests too, there are several brands. Seachem's ammonia test is a better one, IMO, because it tells you how much free [dangerous] ammonia there is and how much ammonium [ chemically bound and not dangerous in most cases ] there is.

API test shows total ammonia, both of these together, and it may seem you have a low level of ammonia to worry over when in fact you don't. You must be able to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. A GH and KH test can also be useful but those won't be in a master kit. These tests tell you how hard your water is, which is related to how stable your tank will be in terms of pH.

Test your tap water so you know what you have to work with. Tap water is often hard and alkaline, so it is by far the easier thing to keep fish that like this kind of water, than to try and change it's natural state.

Tetras and Angels prefer softer, more acidic water, but the thing to remember is that fish, for the most part, are quite adaptable. It may matter more for breeding purposes than for general keeping. But generally speaking, most fish are better off in water with not quite ideal pH or hardness, which will remain stable all the time. Constant swings or changes of pH, hardness or other parameters is stressful and may shorten lives, or end them. Stable tanks always do better, and have happier fish, than those that are meddled with all the time in pursuit of the 'exact, ideal' pH or whatever.

I keep loaches, cories and even panda garras all together, and they are fine. I feed in at least three places, so each can find their own place, and I feed live often, which helps quite a bit. So long as there is enough real estate and hiding places for each species, and suitable foods, they are fine together, in my experience. Just don't start with loaches.. wait 'til the tank is established.

Personally I'm very fond of Aquaclear filters. Easy to run, easy to clean, easy to get parts, can use any media you want, in any combination you want.. adjustable flow rates too. What more can you ask ?
 
Okay, so after some consideration, I think we've decided to go with (not all at once);
2 Angels (1 koi, 1 blue)
3-4 Austraile Killifish
4-5 Cory cats of different varieties
1+ albino longfin pleco
and a school of tetras/danios (probably Glofish or mix of regular +Glo),
and maybe Red Fin Zebra Eel, if we can find one.
 
You should just get the pleco until your tank is cycled, and then add more fish. ~20 fish in a new tank, you're bound to have some casualities...
 
You should just get the pleco until your tank is cycled, and then add more fish. ~20 fish in a new tank, you're bound to have some casualities...

Oh I wasn't going to add any fish until it was cycled (maybe a couple cheapies to help the cycle speed along), and not all of the rest at once. I was planning on adding the pleco(s) and a couple cory cats first, then the angels, then the rest as we save the money for them.
 
Ok. I thought you meant put them all in at the beginning, lol! Just didn't want you to lose all those pretty fish.

My pleco hasn't given me any trouble from day 1 other than he is a pooping machine! Otherwise he is pretty laid back and doesn't do much. I introduced 5 neon tetras too soon, and of course 4 of them died...
 
Okay, so after some consideration, I think we've decided to go with (not all at once);
2 Angels (1 koi, 1 blue)
3-4 Austraile Killifish
4-5 Cory cats of different varieties
1+ albino longfin pleco
and a school of tetras/danios (probably Glofish or mix of regular +Glo),
and maybe Red Fin Zebra Eel, if we can find one.

Glofish are very frowned upon on this site. If you get more into aquariums, you aren't going to want them anymore. They look so fake an plastic-like.
 
Glofish are very frowned upon on this site. If you get more into aquariums, you aren't going to want them anymore. They look so fake an plastic-like.

I kind of agree, but this tank is more to WOW my daughter. I'm sure they'll be replaced over time.
 
Glofish are very frowned upon on this site. If you get more into aquariums, you aren't going to want them anymore. They look so fake an plastic-like.

Many people dislike them here because they do not look natural but in no sense are they frowned upon. To each their own! :)
 
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