starter tank for a kid?

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IMHO people should just give the best advice they can, not critique advice given by others. OP is quite capable of picking and choosing which advice to take.
 
got an email from my ex wife. My daughter has been spending most of her free time reading stuff about fish and crawling the net looking things up about fish. My ex wife went from an attitude of "she's not really responsible enough right now" to "You couldn't have picked a better gift for her". I think part of it too is also that Daddy has fish and it is something we can have in common :D.

I have been telling my daughter about it being hard work and an on-going process.

Last night when I got home from work I sent a link about zebra danio and platys to my daughter and the ex wife. Said they were both excellent and colorful fish to start out with.... I am starting to have a thing for platys now.

Also going to start sending her some posts from here and another site so she can be ready by the time I buy the tank for her.

Hopefully the over time at work will keep up, I'll drive out there and help her set up the tank. Show her what she needs to do to cycle the tank and hopefully be able to make it out there a few weeks later and take her out to buy fish (6 hour drive).
 
I have told her it is a lot of work... and will be calling her in the morning after I wake up. Got to laugh I just jumped in the hobby and she is looking into it ;)
 
Another good thing to keep in mind is the cost: a typical all-in-one kit usually does not include essentials such as gravel, a heater, a full-sized bottle of water condidtioner, plants or other decor... that lot will easily add about $40-50 for every 5 gallons onto your purchase.

A surefire way to go is classifieds/craigslist, where people sell everything, (including the nasty financial surprises mentioned above) for under 70 bucks (if you're a clever shopper). Do a bit of research on buying used tanks before you walk away with a broken tank, canopy, heater, etc.

The good thing about a tank is that even though your daughter may get tired of it after a year, it is still worth it to keep it packed away somewhere... I, for instance, got a 10 gallon tank when I was about 10. I only used it for a year, but we stored it in the basement and lo and behold, 8 years later (In June, actually) I dragged it out on a whim... now I have 2 more tanks on top of my old one! I love the hobby- beats the summer blues when you are on the opposite side oft he country from all your college buddies :)

Good luck with the tank!

P.S.- The 10g is a great size as long as you don't overstock it. Just make/search a thread asking how to stock a low-maintenance 10g. These people know what they're talking about!


Wow that's not cool. Out here when you go to a LFS and get a set up, the only extra is what gravel you want. Most set up even at Petsmart have everything but gravel. Want me to ship you one? ;)
 
Ohhh, as tempting as that sounds my parens would shoot me! I have all my tanks crammed into a 12' X 15' bedroom and I haven't even considered how I am going to move them to university next september OR, for that matter, whether I'll even have space for them if I'm in residence!:rolleyes:

Wow that's not cool. Out here when you go to a LFS and get a set up, the only extra is what gravel you want. Most set up even at Petsmart have everything but gravel. Want me to ship you one? ;)
 
I think that our "hobbies" become way more complicated than they should be, but the complicatedness is what makes it fun imo, but for a kid, there are alot of things that can be done away with.. First of all, the weekly water changes. Unless you tank is horrifically overstocked, The reason for water changes is to #1 keep the ph and hardness stable and #2 to avoid high nitrates (assuming the tank is cycled). If the tank isn't cycled I understand daily water changes, but like said earlier, in a lightly stocked tank, it can take awhile for the nitrates to creep up (forever with enough plants). To some this may sound cruel, but failure is really the best teacher. If the daughter becomes attached enough to the fish, and it is *her* responsibility, and she does something wrong and kills it, #1 you avoid nagging and #2 she learns what not to do. If she decides fish aren't for her, then collateral damage is minimized, but if she asks for help, help her. I've seen way to many people get turned away from fishkeeping or leave various forums because people yell (or seem like yelling from the type) because they didn't cycle their tank or because it got too complicated. This isn't meant to be harsh, but sometimes I feel that fishkeeping becomes something like a religion (watt per gallon, inch per gallon, gallon per hour, turnover per hour) All these things are meant to help, but ultimately dont..

Personally, with a child, I'd start small and take a big second step if she shows interest.
 
I'm thinking primarily of the beginning when changing water often is most critical. As the tank ages, of course water changes can be more sparse. I hear everyone thinking of the child and just letting her have fun. We are talking about live animals and there is a responsibility to keeping to live animals. We can't just think about the child and never change the water for the fish because it might put a damper on the child's day and oh my gosh, she might have to do some work, and oh my gosh, it might not be fun.

"Personally, with a child, I'd start small and take a big second step if she shows interest. __________________
~ Danny"

And Danny, I agree completely with you, that's why I suggested a betta.
 
My daughter lives on a farm so knows about the cycle of life and death, and her uncle and grandfather hunt and fish.

To make water changes "more fun" I did tell her that the water is good for houseplants and the garden.

I agree with krap101 about it being her responsibility and that if she screws up it is her fault. I made the mistake of getting a Chinese Algae Eater , he is getting huge but I am going to keep him until he starts becoming aggressive to the other fish and only then I will either find a home for him or see if I can give him to the fish store to sell.

Part of giving her the tank is the responsibility of it. She says she is ready and she has been showing that by researching the hobby.
 
About it being her responsibility and if she screws up it is her fault...that depends on what kinds of responsibilities she is accustomed to. If, being on a farm, she is already accustomed to caring for, 100%, the lives and welfare of animals all on her own, at 9 years old, and she's shown she can do it, then ok. But developmentally most 9 year olds are too young for that responsibility all on their own.

I'm not saying that she shouldn't have and enjoy a fish tank, I think all children can enjoy a fish tank, with varying levels of responsibility. I think this all got started when I simply asked if the ex-wife wanted a tank because I believe she'll have to help with water changes, then someone spoke saying that weekly water changes aren't necessary...and since I read you to be well-meaning and generally responsible, I continued because you seem like the kind of guy who would teach her the right way to care for a tank, and in my opinion that would certainly include some water changes, with some frequency, at the very least in the beginning.
 
I'm really opinionated, (my whole family thinks so) so as long as I'm not crossing any lines (not very good at noticing) I think that either it should be all the daughter's responsibility or all the parent's (for single tanks) Give her a 10 gallon with a betta and a few otos or danios instead of the betta. (just a suggestion) and see how she responds. If she takes responsibility, great! upgrade to like a 29 or maybe a 55 if money allows. If the fish die, guide her, and start over in the 10.

I know people are passionate about fish, and that "they are living animals", but I think back to the commercials where you'd sponsor a child, and slowly those have been replaced by commercials to save kittens or puppies.. A vast majority of us have killed our first fish, which is the reason we sought out forums, and although not entirely ethical, the "sacrifice" of the first fish will either save others. Similarly, the dissection of fetal pigs, frogs etc in biology in high school was a sacrifice for learning, which is what I see this as right now.
 
Danny,

Children learn from their parents, especially at 9 years old. You can't expect her to bear the entire responsibility of the tank if she's never done it before. And as I've said, developmentally, a typical 9 year old isn't mature enough to handle a task like this on their own, she would need help, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't need help. Children learn responsibility from their parents and there is usually a transitional period of parent/child sharing responsibilities before all the responsibility for a task is placed on such a young child. We teach our children, then we help our children, then they are able to function on their own. We don't just say "Here ya' go, you've got a fish tank, hope you can handle it.". That's not parenting.

And before you ask, yes, I do happen to be an expert in this area. I have a master's in psychology and I specialize in child developmental psychology and parenting. Much of the parent/child bond comes from teaching our children, playing with them, and working projects with them, not leaving them on their own to fail or succeed.

You said that killing fish drives some to learn to be a better fishkeeper. I'd being willing to gamble that it has also turned just as many, if not more, people away from the hobby...especially 9 year old girls. Success breeds success. Failure breeds interest in a different hobby...
 
I guess I can see that. I started keeping fish around age 12, and I guess there can be alot of growth in 3 years, but what brought me to this forum was high ammonia killing my gouramis.

I didn't mean no guidance or teaching, but more of a hands-off approach. You show them how to clean the filter, do water changes, and see how they progress. If they do anything wrong, they can see a direct consequence for their actions. I do believe there should be a point where the parent steps in, possibly if she dumps the entire can of food into the tank, but otherwise, assuming the tank is cycled and chlorine isn't a problem, there's not alot of supervision needed. I don't really see a 9 year old dumping the entire can of food into the tank, and I have to disagree with your last statement. Too much "artificial" success would make the child bored imo. Failure is what makes success sweet, and otherwise, we wouldn't value it.

Not to judge, but I'd imagine that a majority of those who "quit" (for lack of a better word) after one bad experience shouldn't be counted. If a child begs to get a guitar, and gets it, then decides it isn't worth the work, and is allowed to quit, the whole experience is wasted. If someone isn't ready to put the work into practicing, they won't reap the benefits. They won't get to the point there it is actually fun.

As for learning responsibility from the parents, what better way to learn than a first fish tank? If a child becomes attached to a specific fish, and somehow kills it, he/she will do everything in their power to make sure it doesn't happen again. She needs a sense of ownership, and therefore needs a sense of responsibility. If the parent changes the water, cleans the algae etc and the child feeds them every other time, they don't have the ability to impact the fish tank in any big (reasonable) way, and imo would feel left out. I understand fish will probably die in the process, (even the most experienced fishkeepers lose fish). If the daughter asks "daddy why is Flipper floating upside down?" he will be able to tell her, but if the kid is pushed aside to save the fish, the entire "lesson" (maybe opportunity would be a better choice) would be wasted.

I'm NOT an expert in this area, but I'm close enough to that age (18) with multiple cousins etc. under the age of 10, to know that kids also try to replicate the actions of their parents. If they see a successful fish tank that's taken care of by the parent, they'd want to replicate it. They see you changing the water, they'll probably ask why, and through these steps, they eventually learn.

I'm not trying to offend anybody (especially Nippy) but I'm speaking more from personal experience, and the maturity of those around me.
 
In the grand scheme of things, a fish is a much better way to learn responsibility. I'm not saying their lives mean less than those of hamster, dogs, cats, budgies, but they're easier to care for and if they die, it's far less traumatic. I had fish when I was quite young, Looking back it was the standard goldfish bowl, but I didn't know any better and of course petsmart didn;t tell us better, i'm sure. Even still, I had those fish a long time, and they had good lives. making it complicated isn't always necessary. Its better for the fish, but less water changes certainly won't kill the fish.
 
I am going to have my daughter sign up for the forums here on AC (the two fish sites I haunt)... She will be supervised when on-line, one of the things I do agree with her mom and grandparents about... a 9 y/o on the net alone is about as irresponsible as letting a 9 y/o run around on her own in a mall or other public place.

I have stressed to my daughter that the fish are living things, and that instead of just having to feed them (change litter box, or take out for a walk) she will also be required to have to take care of their whole life support system. They are more reliant on her than a cat or dog.


BTW - sad news out of Akron. One of the pet stores there (PetSmart, or PetCo or one of the chains) had an employee drown rabbits that were fighting and hurting each other. A female employee got busted for it after her manager took pics and she posted them on her facebook profile!

I am generally a cold hearted SOB, but I can't stand when someone does somethign liek that to the defenseless.
 
It's pretty sad how commercially sold animals are treated... If that rabbit were a rare, exotic rodent in a zoo, It would be treated with utmost respect. Since the animal is a worthless commodity, the people handling them are screened pretty poorly: just look at all the stores that will sell you a bowl along with a betta or goldfish!

Its good to see people like you considering carefully before buying ANY creature... if your kid's pet goldie lives a miserable 2 weeks in a bowl before going down the toilet, you may intend to teach kids respect animals, but wind up showing them that animals are DISPOSABLE!
 
I forget where she said she was (car dealership) and said something about the fish in it not looking happy.

Part of what will keep her mindful of the tank is that she doesn't get to see me that often (long story with the ex wife plus the distance)... So if daddy is coming to help her set up a tank she knows to take care of it cause she knows how far away it is for me to get there.


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I know when I got my cat I was not going to a pet store to get one. Too many animals in shelters that need home. I picked a two time looser that was scared of her own shadow. She was abused/neglected by a woman who had her before (couple got the cat, guy split she took it out on the cat)... After 9 years she still gets skittish if I move too quick, you wouldn't recognize her as the same cat from back then.
 
Aww- thats sweet! Its amazing how much animals can change in a good home. I just saw the incident on the news and it's pretty clear that that poor girl is pret-ty troubled... hurting animals for amusement is a serious sign of sociopathy/psychopathy - in psychiatric terms the next thing would probably be assault/murder. I hope she get help :(
 
Those are the worst people. I don't know how anyone could look at an innocent animal and do something to harm it. I'm really glad that local rabbit rescue groups have started putting their rabbits into petshops rather than breeder farm rabbits, hopefully the same thing will start happening with other animals soon.
 
OMG seriously.. I understand the corporate thing and how baby rabbits/puppies are easier to sell, but SERIOUSLY.. drowning.. I don't condone it.. but there are definitely better ways to do it.. You can't really stop them (usually) but at least find a better way if they have to do it... UGH!
 
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