Starting my fishless cycle over :(

[Daner]

So long story short - I messed up, my pH crashed and I didn't realize the pH was the reasoning for my cycle stall for probably too long. Aaaand now I need to re-start my fishless cycle. Trying to do better this time.

My pH was recently so acidic it was not registering a color on the pH chart, awesome. Did a nearly 100% water change, added Prime and a little bit of fish flakes. My tap water has a pH of around 7.4-7.6, currently 5 days after the water change my tank pH is already back down to 6.8 (maybe less? I'm not good at the color charts )

Dosed my Ammonia back up to 4ppm, hoping there is some beneficial bacteria left in my filter after the low pH fry. ::sigh::

My question is, how after should I add small amount of food flakes to keep the nutrients adequate for cycling and how often would you recommend topping off Primed water to help keep the pH adequate? Any other tips on making things go more smoothly?

 

[ScotJudd]

Hi there. You need to know your source water parameters before adding it to the tank. Leave some tap water in a bucket fir 24 hours. Then check Ph, this is a true reading of your source water. It's amazing how different it can be.
Also, you do need to know the temporary hardness Kh and general hardness Gh of your source water. API have a liquid test kit for these checks. If Kh is under 6 on the test then you will nearly always risk a Ph crash. Be aware so that raising Kh also raises Ph but Kh of 6 seems fine in my tank.
Good luck.


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[Daner]

Thanks for the reply ScotJudd

After reading your post yesteday morning I filled a bucket with water as I would if I were going to top off the tank. I let this sit out for 24 hours without adding any prime to it, pH reading this morning from the bucket was 7.4-7.6.

I have ordered a API gH and kH test through Amazon, I don't have a prime account so I'm not sure when exactly it will be here. But in the meantime, I did get my city tap water testing report for last year in the mail last week and the average hardness reading according to this is 50.3ppm but I'm not exactly sure what this reading means in the scheme of things

 

[Fishfanboy]

If you want to raise it add some crushed coral

 

[dwhit13]

May i ask a silly question? Why are you adding prime while your doing a fishless cycle? this is in no way a shot of any kind Im just a newbie and curious. I currently have two tanks, one is going through a fish in cycle and the newer one Im trying a fishless cycle. I didnt think prime would be beneficial for a fishless cycle but if it is please tell me so that I can take advantage of that as well.

 

[Brookster123]

Hey boston, my water is actually pretty stable.. i wonder what's up with yours? You can add some crushed coral for buffering, or research adding baking soda.. also if you want some seeded media to get that cycle done I got you..

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[joejeff]

When buffering add something static like coral not chemical or belong soda. BC it is way too hard to keep stable. Imo unless working w super finicky fish it is best to just led pH ride. Fish will adjust and do better w stable water whatever it may be. It quick fluctuations that stress them more.

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[Daner]

I'm thinking perhaps I was just not tending to the tank often enough as far as topping off water and checking the pH during the cycle - I was focusing so much on the Ammonia and nitrites/ates. Topped off the tank today with the water from the bucket (primed) and just now the pH in the tank is around 7.2 maybe 7.4 which is good. Ammonia is somewhere between 1 and 2 ppm. No Nitrites and about 5 nitrAtes.

Again, how often should I add some sprinkled fish flake to add nutrients to the water during cycling?

dwhit13 - I am pretty newb to the hobby as well, but I've been under the impression that any water from the tap should be treated with Prime before adding to the tank to remove Chlorine and chloramines from the water regardless of fish in or fish less. It detoxifies ammonia, nitrites and nitrates but doesn't remove them, so it shouldn't mess with the cycling process just make it less toxic if fish were in there.

Brookster123 - I may take you up on the seeded material offer after making sure that my levels are staying relatively stable. I would hate to kill off any more good bacteria before even getting started. Might have to take out the previous seeded sponges in my filter to make room though!

 

[joejeff]

The more important thing in the fishless cycle is the ammonia dosing. Idk that you have to do fish food also.

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[joejeff]

And again. I don't think pH is such an issue as long as it is stable. Whatever it is. Keep it the same that is all you need to wry w that IMO

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[Daner]

It was fine and stable pH of 7.4-7.6 originally, then i stopped really paying attention to the pH and focusing on the Ammonia/ites/ates of the cycle. Cycle was taking quite awhile despite seeded material, and by the time I realized the pH had tanked I think it was probably too long and killed all my good bacteria that had started growing.

I was stuck on the fact that I had nitrAtes, my nitrItes had spiked and gone down, but for some reason my Ammonia wasn't decreasing fast enough. Thought it was stalled from too high of nitrAtes originally, but then found out after a few partial water changes that lowered the Ates and Ammonia still wasn't going to zero that I had a horribly acidic pH.

I do try to keep up with the ammonia dosing, but I'm just a bit frustrated after wasting the past 3 months on a failed fishless cycle I want to make sure I'm not missing anything this go around. I had read elsewhere on the board about adding a small amount of fish flakes to help keep nutrients in the water that will deplete during the nitrogen cycle. Just don't want to under or over do it.

Looks like my kh gh kit will arrive sometime next week. Any idea if a hardness of 50.3ppm is good or bad in the scheme of things? Or have any good resources for hardness and its affects on aquarium cycling?

I just want to do this right this time, but it's hard when I'm not exactly sure what all went wrong.

 

[Daner]

Got my Kh/Gh test in the mail today. So I did a full test to see where I'm at.

Today:
pH: less than 6.0 (about 7.0-7.2 on 7/15 and 6.4 on 7.18)
Ammonia: 0.25 (last dose to 4ppm on the 18th)
NitrItes: 0 (possibly a darker blue, but still blue and not purple)
NitrAtes: 20-40ppm (Was 5-10ppm on 7/15)

GH: 89.5ppm
KH: 17.9 or less (was yellow the second it hit water)

So it's my understanding that the low KH is making for unstable pH. And the GH will creep up as the minerals build up. I have tomorrow off so I'll be searching for crushed coral, petsmart is my closest LFS so I guess I'll try there. Is this something that I'll always keep in then, even once I have fish? Or is there a better way to help keep my pH more stable?

Also, I seem to be building Nitrates and dropping Ammonia but haven't seen a boost in Nitrites since the original spike at the beginning of my cycling fun around mid-April. I'm hoping this means I have some bacteria still left alive!

 

[PNWaquarist]

So it's my understanding that the low KH is making for unstable pH.

That is likely your problem. KH is a measurement of the amount of carbonate/bicarbonate in your tank. Carbonate and bicarbonate form a buffer, which stabilizes your tank pH. If your concentration of total carbonate (carbonate + bicarbonate) is too low, the acidic waste products formed by the nitrifying (beneficial) bacteria will lower your pH to the point where the bacteria can no longer reproduce (< 6).

If you want a quick solution, add some *pure* baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to your tank. Make sure that it has no additives. I would do this slowly - maybe a few tablespoons at a time - wait 20 minutes for it to dissolve and mix throughout your tank, and then test your KH and pH. Because sodium bicarbonate has a relatively high pKa (~10.5), it will raise your tank pH. (This is good in your case, but you don't want to overdo it.) I would try to shoot for a KH of 100-150 ppm.

If your tap water is that acidic and soft, you will likely have to monitor your tank's pH and KH once a week, after it's cycled and you have fish in it. Weekly water changes will dilute your total carbonate and you'll have to replenish with small amounts of baking soda. You'll want to avoid abrupt changes in pH and KH.