Struggling with first fishless cycle

[Ponch]

Turn your heater up as high as it can go and keep the lights off as much as possible, this will encourage bacteria growth. If you don't have any seeded material, go to a fish store and see what they have in their tanks. Ask if you could purchase a plant or two (a fake filthy one would probably be best) out of one of their tanks that is filled with fish. Odds are that it will have plenty of bacteria on it to seed and jumpstart your cycle.

Heater's now maxed. Going to head over to fish store this weekend to ask for seeding material. Besides plants, if they say no, what's the next best seed material -- filter media? then maybe some gravel if they say no?

Any transport tips for this seed material? Drop it in a bag full of tank water like I was taking a fish home? Thanks!

 

[eco23]

Filter media is far and away the best source of seeding material. Anything else is a VERY distant second. A huge % of the beneficial bacteria is in the filter...a shockingly low number is in other areas. As long as you keep it wet and provide it ammonia within a few days it'll be fine.

Also, you don't have to max out the heater. 77-86 is ideal.

I've been racking my brain on this one...but don't have any theories yet. Just a couple random questions...do you have any type of air purifier in the room? (thanks to jcolon for that question) What is your water supply (county / private well)? I assume there's not a UV filter on the tank?

 

[Ponch]

Its worth noting that the API test kits do expire . Perhaps you bought one that sat on the shelf for a year (or longer) and your getting inaccurate results. Have you tried testing for nitrates? If you have a readable amount of nitrates then you have to have nitrite production! Make sure you shake the nitrate bottles well before use. Let us know!

yeah i've read about that. how can you tell the expiration date of anAPI test kit? didn't see one on the collateral anywhere. Two things make the think the API kit is fine....
1-I also have an aqua alert ammonia monitor which shows some ammo reading
2-I can smell the ammonia when getting test water from the tank

 

[eco23]

yeah i've read about that. how can you tell the expiration date of anAPI test kit? didn't see one on the collateral anywhere. Two things make the think the API kit is fine....
1-I also have an aqua alert ammonia monitor which shows some ammo reading
2-I can smell the ammonia when getting test water from the tank

On the bottles it will have a lot #, and the last 4 digits are the month and year it was produced. I don't remember the timeframe...but they're good for like 2-3 years.

I actually used the Blue Ribbon brand myself (got it from Tru Value Hardware)...so I know its good unless they changed it in the last year. It did catch my eye when you said you could smell it (I never did), and also the batch I used was super weak. It took almost 350 drops to dose my 46 gallon tank up to 4ppm. It seemed like you didn't need to add much (even though it's a smaller tank). Checking the fine print one more time might not hurt.

You may have already seen it, but if not check out the article in my signature. Sometimes when things are off it's good to start at square one and read through to make sure there's not something basic we're all missing.

 

[Ponch]

Filter media is far and away the best source of seeding material. Anything else is a VERY distant second. A huge % of the beneficial bacteria is in the filter...a shockingly low number is in other areas. As long as you keep it wet and provide it ammonia within a few days it'll be fine.

Also, you don't have to max out the heater. 77-86 is ideal.

I've been racking my brain on this one...but don't have any theories yet. Just a couple random questions...do you have any type of air purifier in the room? (thanks to jcolon for that question) What is your water supply (county / private well)? I assume there's not a UV filter on the tank?

Hey eco23 - Are you the author of the almost complete guide to fishless cycling? It's an honor! Have read that article about a dozen times now.

So answers to your questions...
-no air purifier or air fresheners in the room
-i'm on city water which tests normal for Ammo but i think is on the highside for PH at around 7.8 straight out of the tap
-no UV filter on the tank - i'm using an Aqeon Minibow 5.0 tank with built in filter

thanks for thinking on this Eco23 and everyone else - in addition to raising kid i guess it also takes a village to fishless cycle a tank

 

[eco23]

Hey eco23 - Are you the author of the almost complete guide to fishless cycling? It's an honor! Have read that article about a dozen times now.

So answers to your questions...
-no air purifier or air fresheners in the room
-i'm on city water which tests normal for Ammo but i think is on the highside for PH at around 7.8 straight out of the tap
-no UV filter on the tank - i'm using an Aqeon Minibow 5.0 tank with built in filter

thanks for thinking on this Eco23 and everyone else - in addition to raising kid i guess it also takes a village to fishless cycle a tank

Thanks for the compliment . After a month of this I'm surprised you're not cursing at me instead, haha.

Assuming there's not something basic missing (things we covered like dechlorinator, ammonia not being pure, etc...) this is definitely a situation where we're missing a variable.

Your pH is fine. Unless it's at an extreme range it won't have any negative impact...and it's better high than low.

We've really only had one situation like this as far as I can remember, and that was with Librarygirl's tank (she responded earlier)...and she's currently got a happily stocked, healthy, cycled tank . We can always get them cycled eventually. In her case we went to the absolute extreme and used bottled water. After making the switch her tank cycled within a couple weeks. What I've personally concluded in her situation is that her water supply was lacking some sort of trace element that the bacteria needed to colonize. The nitrifying bacteria requires all sorts of minerals, salts, electrolytes, alkalinity, etc...to efficiently colonize, and without them it won't happen. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case for you...but that's what ended up being her cause.

Step one really should be seeded media. If anything will get it going...that would be it. If you add filter media and things still don't get going we know we've got another issue which may be more along the lines of librarygirl's case.

I'd avoid any type of bottled bacteria unless it is Tetra SafeStart or preferably Dr. Tim's One and Only. But even then it's nothing close to a guarantee. There's also a company called AngelsPlus which sells seeded sponge filters (they call them "active") which may be worth checking out if you can't get a filter pad from a friend or LFS.

The new thing I've been experimenting with a bit is using mineral replenishers like Seachem Replenish and Kent's R/O Rite. Theyre made for people who use purified water...and it reconstitutes any type of mineral which the BB would need. In theory, if something was lacking from your water that the bacteria needs...these additives would be the solution. I just can't make any guarantees on it since I haven't really tested it in depth...just kind of a hypothesis which adds up in my mind and may be worth a shot.

I'll keep racking my brain...but I'd definitely start with a State wide search for a nice, dirty, established, bacteria filled filter pad

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

One thing I would like to add is that when I first started researching methods of "seeding" my tank to get the cycle jumpstarted, I was considering getting some media from the LFS as well. Only because i didn't have any friends near by with an established tank that this seemed like a viable option. One thing to consider is that if you can get the seeding filter media from a trusted source (i.e. from a friend) that would be much better than the LFS. I'd be a little apprehensive of introducing something to my tank such as parasites or fish disease. Simply because of the shear number of stock that passes through the LFS. Unless of course the LFS quarantines all their stock prior to introducing them to the display tanks.

Call me paranoid because this was the only reason why I opted for the Tetra SafeStart option... Which worked for me and shortly after, all my test kit readings were favorable.

 

[LyndaB]

On the bottles it will have a lot #, and the last 4 digits are the month and year it was produced. I don't remember the timeframe...but they're good for like 2-3 years.

+1

This is straight from API customer support:

Each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, ammonia, High Range pH, Nitrate, phosphate, Copper, calcium and GH all last for three years. nitrite and KH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years.

 

[jlk]

Heater's now maxed. Going to head over to fish store this weekend to ask for seeding material. Besides plants, if they say no, what's the next best seed material -- filter media? then maybe some gravel if they say no?

Any transport tips for this seed material? Drop it in a bag full of tank water like I was taking a fish home? Thanks!

Yes, transfer any seeded material as you would a fish! Its a living 'thing' and wont survive a trip home if it dries out (bag with lots of water to completely cover it). Any chance you live near Philly area? I would gladly give you a live filter!

 

[Ponch]

Yes, transfer any seeded material as you would a fish! Its a living 'thing' and wont survive a trip home if it dries out (bag with lots of water to completely cover it). Any chance you live near Philly area? I would gladly give you a live filter!

JLK - thats really nice of you-offering a filter-thank you. unfortunately for me I'm in Connecticut ! Going to have to try and sweet talk my way to some filter media this weekend. Worst case maybe I can buy a filter pad from the store, have them stuff it in their filter and come back and pick it up the following weekend

 

[Ponch]

+1

This is straight from API customer support:

Each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, ammonia, High Range pH, Nitrate, phosphate, Copper, calcium and GH all last for three years. nitrite and KH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years.

Thanks! You guys have all the answers

 

[jlk]

Your welcome!!! Good luck and keep us posted!!!!

 

[Ponch]

So I have just visited the LFS and was able to resist the sales pitch for bacteria in a bottle I secured some gravel from one of their tanks. I put some both beneath and on top of my filter pad and dumped the rest into the tank. With any luck this will jump start things.

Anyone know about how long before this should kick in and for ammonia to start being converted to Nitrites?

Will keep everyone posted. Thanks for the support.

 

[Ponch]

Here's an update:

Added some seed gravel from LFS on 10/8 and here are my readings the last two days:

10/9
Ammo 3.0
Ni 0.0
Ph 7.8

10/10
Ammo 3.0
Ni 0.0
Na 0.0
Ph 7.9

So nothing yet. Earlier I mentioned that the water smells like it has ammonia it. Has anyone else experienced that and successfully cycled a tank? Beginning to question the Blue Ribbon ammonia despite fact that it does not bubble when shaken and appears to have nothing other than ammo in it when researching it online (no ingredients listed on label at all).

Going to lookup and try and track down an 800# for the rooto corporation who makes it to verify what's in it.

 

[librarygirl]

So it's been over a month and ammonia hasn't been dropping and no nitrite? Hm.....you should be done or close to done by now, so something is going on.

Did anything get into the tank, any contaminants (air freshener, household cleaners, etc)? Did you dechlorinate the water when you put it into the tank?

 

[Ponch]

So it's been over a month and ammonia hasn't been dropping and no nitrite? Hm.....you should be done or close to done by now, so something is going on.

Did anything get into the tank, any contaminants (air freshener, household cleaners, etc)? Did you dechlorinate the water when you put it into the tank?

Unless the housekeeper is spraying windex on the glass or something like that going on without my knowledge there is really nothing that would contaminate the water...

 

[librarygirl]

What brand of tank is it and what filter?

I don't think it's the ammonia; I've seen others use that brand without issues although a call to the company to confirm that there isn't anything else in it wouldn't hurt.

What water source are you using (tap, well, etc)?

Just trying to cover all bases.....

 

[eco23]

I used the Blue Ribbon brand. It's super weak, but worked perfectly. I'd assume they haven't changed the formula, but I guess it's possible.

I agree the ammonia smell might be a clue. I'd check with the house keeper. (Random Family Guy reference..."Umm, no. We need more Lemon Pledge."

 

[Ponch]

What brand of tank is it and what filter?

I don't think it's the ammonia; I've seen others use that brand without issues although a call to the company to confirm that there isn't anything else in it wouldn't hurt.

What water source are you using (tap, well, etc)?

Just trying to cover all bases.....

Hey there - tank is an aqeon minibow 5.0 with built in filter. Using water from tap which is provided by city. Have been using a dechlorinator with every introduction of new water.

 

[Ponch]

I used the Blue Ribbon brand. It's super weak, but worked perfectly. I'd assume they haven't changed the formula, but I guess it's possible.

I agree the ammonia smell might be a clue. I'd check with the house keeper. (Random Family Guy reference..."Umm, no. We need more Lemon Pledge."

I will check with housekeeper - wouldn't that be interesting if it turned out that was the issue. This tank comes with a hood, which is always on so I think chances of it being additional chemicals from another source are low.