Tank log/updates

[micaiah12]

Hey all. I know I've been extremely active on the forums. I apologize.

I feel like I should just keep this all one thread. That way I don't over post and things like that.

So here is my tank log. I will be updating it as much as I can, it's mainly for y'all to hopefully pitch in whenever you feel like it. So thanks in advanced!

As of right now.

Current setup:

Reviving my 46g bow front.
Ehim 2215 back in the game! Started up like a champ after three years in storage.
Heater set at 87.5° F
80w of lighting with 10k dual florescent fixture.
DIY co2 going into a power head turning out a bubble per second.


Current tank occupants:
Java fern...and about 8 babies. This thing is growing like crazy.
Three Amazon swords.
Java moss coming soon.

Tank Plans: semi-aggressive community fish in a medium (maybe high) planted aquarium. With good aquascaping.
PFS Sand substrate, driftwood, and rocks.

Currently, day 8 of a fishless cycle. Really keeping an eye on my ph. A couple of days ago I took a reading prior to my co2 installation and the reading was nice and bright red/pink color on the high ph test kit from API. From my understanding, it would mean it's off the chart. Post co2 install yesterday. My ph was actually reading on the chart. Going at about 8.4. Now I do know that co2 lowers the ph. Which I guess is what I want. However I do not run my co2 24/7. Therefore, when I came home today, ph is back up at the bright red color again. I also tested my water from my tap I let sit out and it also read that color. So my tap water is coming out probably around 9+. Currently my KH is sitting at 161.1 or 9°dKH. A couple of questions I have right now is, is my ph at 9+ going to be a problem for the bacteria for my fishless cycle? Also, my tap water is coming out at 9+ which means I will have to lower it somehow prior to adding fish right? Let me know what y'all think. I am. Sorry for posting so much, I will just keep to this thread and keep updating it.



Basically from left to right.

KH - after 9 drops. PH - from tap. PH - from tank. Ammonia - from tank at day 8. (Basically 2ppm and been there since day 1)





Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

Just a note that the picture displays in full web view but not the app for me.

I know there have been people on here that have kept fish in what they referred to a liquid rock so guessing your fish shop should stock something suitable Our water is very soft so a little outside my experience.

 

[micaiah12]

Huh weird. It displays on both my devices?

Anyways day 9 now. Got up this morning and did some tests. My ph seems to of taken a dive bomb after leaving the co2 on most of the night. It went from off the chart to a 7.8. Ammonia seems to be sticking around. 1-2ppm. I have about 4.5 ppm of co2. Since ammonia hasn't done anything I have not tested for nitrites.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[micaiah12]

Well I spoke to soon! I just tested the nitrites and I actually got a reading. It makes me so happy!




Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

Whoo-hoo!! Was that on day 9?

 

[micaiah12]

Yup!

Day 10

Ammonia hasn't dropped a significant amount, however nitrite is about 1 now.
Ph is sitting at 7.8-8.0 with co2 running all the time. I purchased some peat moss for backup. My KH is up to 12dKH which puts my co2 at about 5ppm. Still pretty low though. I'm finally glad my cycle is starting. My Java ferns are producing like crazy now that I have high light and a source of co2. I'm wondering after my tank is cycled if I turn off my co2 will it spike the ph or not. Would a ph spike from 7.8 to 9+ kill a cycled tank?


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

Out of interest have you tested kh out of the tap? And also do you have a drop checker?

The ph/kh/co2 chart assumes no other buffers or acids from memory so curious on drop checker result.

 

[The_Desacrator]

Can we get a pic of the tank itself?

 

[micaiah12]

What is a drop checker? My tap water has a ph of like 9+ and dKH of 7.

Day 11:

Ammonia is down to .5ppm, nitrite is almost off the charts, and ph is 8.0, dKH also dropped to 8 down from 12 yesterday. I'm going to let the tank sit for the day and then add more ammonia tonight probably.

I can upload pictures for you guys, but it's a bare tanks with two filters on it and plants floating around...

Does anyone have an answer to my question about, when my tank is cycled, and the ph spiked to 9+ would that kill my cycle at all?


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

Edit. I also took a nitrate test and it came back with 5.0 which is exciting for day 11!

 

[micaiah12]

Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

Here's an example of a drop checker. Generally pretty low cost and most accurate way to show tank co2 levels. However it takes several hours to respond to co2 increase/decrease in tank.

https://www.amazon.com/Fluval-A7551-CO2-Indicator-Kit/dp/B0052M9886

People have tanks with that water chemistry so as far as I know the tank will still cycle.

 

[micaiah12]

Ok I've seen those. I'll have to grab one eventually. Is the KH reading not accurate at analyzing the co2 then? Which is more accurate? KH or drop checker that takes 7 hours to read?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Caliban07]

Ok I've seen those. I'll have to grab one eventually. Is the KH reading not accurate at analyzing the co2 then? Which is more accurate? KH or drop checker that takes 7 hours to read?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Unfortunately no it isn't. As Delapool quite rightly pointed out the data we pull from our tanks is corrupt because we don't know what acids are contributing to the make up of our ph and also because KH test kits measure alkalinity which is made up of much more than just carbonates so you can see that we are already facing an uphill struggle. Because of these discrepancies the chart will always overestimate the co2 concentration in our tanks. So if you calculate the co2 in your tank using KH and ph and come up with 5ppm it's probably less.

In medium high KH water a 1 point ph drop is the closest your going to get to 30ppm by using the chart because no one knows exactly how much the non carbonate alkalinity affects KH but the difference is used to account for the error.

Drop checkers on the other hand have a standard KH of either 4dkh or 5dkh and use an air gap which only co2 gas can cross. Once it crosses the gap it reacts with the water to again form carbonic acid which will be the only acid in the chamber against a known KH liquid so they give you more accurate readings. They are basically just a glorified ph test kit which again using hobby grade titration methods gives cause for errors in its self. They are only used as an approximation but they are probably the best you will get unless you want to spend £1000s on a co2 meter.

This is the reason why some people ditch co2 testing and use their plants and fish to gauge the effectiveness of their co2 input. If your plants are healthy and your fish aren't gasping then all is good so to speak.

The ph change shouldn't be an issue.

Hope this helps


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[micaiah12]

Unfortunately no it isn't. As Delapool quite rightly pointed out the data we pull from our tanks is corrupt because we don't know what acids are contributing to the make up of our ph and also because KH test kits measure alkalinity which is made up of much more than just carbonates so you can see that we are already facing an uphill struggle. Because of these discrepancies the chart will always overestimate the co2 concentration in our tanks. So if you calculate the co2 in your tank using KH and ph and come up with 5ppm it's probably less.

In medium high KH water a 1 point ph drop is the closest your going to get to 30ppm by using the chart because no one knows exactly how much the non carbonate alkalinity affects KH but the difference is used to account for the error.

Drop checkers on the other hand have a standard KH of either 4dkh or 5dkh and use an air gap which only co2 gas can cross. Once it crosses the gap it reacts with the water to again form carbonic acid which will be the only acid in the chamber against a known KH liquid so they give you more accurate readings. They are basically just a glorified ph test kit which again using hobby grade titration methods gives cause for errors in its self. They are only used as an approximation but they are probably the best you will get unless you want to spend £1000s on a co2 meter.

This is the reason why some people ditch co2 testing and use their plants and fish to gauge the effectiveness of their co2 input. If your plants are healthy and your fish aren't gasping then all is good so to speak.

The ph change shouldn't be an issue.

Hope this helps


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Ok thank you. This makes much more sense, thanks.
I didn't think the PH really would hurt the bacteria that much the only concern with the ph is if it is at 9+ that either limits the fish I can keep or I go through the process of acclimating them. Or I really Doctor my water.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Caliban07]

Ok thank you. This makes much more sense, thanks.
I didn't think the PH really would hurt the bacteria that much the only concern with the ph is if it is at 9+ that either limits the fish I can keep or I go through the process of acclimating them. Or I really Doctor my water.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

Sorry my advice regarding ph was about ph change. I wouldn't like to speculate on the implications of keeping fish in a ph of 9+. My suspicions are that there probably wouldn't be any noticeable negative effects but I would advise that the fish be kept within the recommended ranges. That said, we are interested in the ph of the tank not so much the tap. So you should monitor tank water ph at regular intervals. I can't see tank water being in the 9 range. Especially when injecting co2.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

Unfortunately no it isn't. As Delapool quite rightly pointed out the data we pull from our tanks is corrupt because we don't know what acids are contributing to the make up of our ph and also because KH test kits measure alkalinity which is made up of much more than just carbonates so you can see that we are already facing an uphill struggle. Because of these discrepancies the chart will always overestimate the co2 concentration in our tanks. So if you calculate the co2 in your tank using KH and ph and come up with 5ppm it's probably less.

In medium high KH water a 1 point ph drop is the closest your going to get to 30ppm by using the chart because no one knows exactly how much the non carbonate alkalinity affects KH but the difference is used to account for the error.

Drop checkers on the other hand have a standard KH of either 4dkh or 5dkh and use an air gap which only co2 gas can cross. Once it crosses the gap it reacts with the water to again form carbonic acid which will be the only acid in the chamber against a known KH liquid so they give you more accurate readings. They are basically just a glorified ph test kit which again using hobby grade titration methods gives cause for errors in its self. They are only used as an approximation but they are probably the best you will get unless you want to spend £1000s on a co2 meter.

This is the reason why some people ditch co2 testing and use their plants and fish to gauge the effectiveness of their co2 input. If your plants are healthy and your fish aren't gasping then all is good so to speak.

The ph change shouldn't be an issue.

Hope this helps


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Reads much better than my quick answer

 

[micaiah12]

Day 12:

I dosed ammonia last night, about 5ml before I went to bed. When I got up to take my tests. Ammonia has returned to 0.5 and nitrites are pretty much off the charts by now. I was late for work so I never got around to checking anything else.



Ammonia test looks dirty, but it's just the lighting. It's sitting around 0.5-1.0ppms right now.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Caliban07]

Day 12:

I dosed ammonia last night, about 5ml before I went to bed. When I got up to take my tests. Ammonia has returned to 0.5 and nitrites are pretty much off the charts by now. I was late for work so I never got around to checking anything else.

View attachment 287725

Ammonia test looks dirty, but it's just the lighting. It's sitting around 0.5-1.0ppms right now.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

So far so good. You are right on schedule. You should expect to see nitrites coming down around the 3 week mark


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[micaiah12]

Day 13

Chugging along. Although I noticed some algae to start growing in my tank, the cycle is going just fine.

Ph is fluctuating all over the place. Here is a graph that I started about 3 days after I started dosing.



From this graph it looks a lot like the co2 follows the dKH/ph. I know y'all say that it isn't accurate, however it kinda looks like that is? Or am I reading into that to much?


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

That's really interesting to see the graph - thanks for posting this. Definitely keen to see how it progresses.

How are you measuring CO2? I've been tempted to get a test kit

The assumption I make in my tank is that everything is fairly constant and the ph/kh/co2 chart is useful for relative change but you have to be wary on saying absolutely at this point the co2 is x, therefore my fish must be fine. It's just not accurate unfortunately.

I have heard of tanks going well past 30ppm and fish are fine, in others fish are gasping at surface. Regretfully our test kits are not quite accurate.

So drop checkers, watching fish, watching for plant pearling, checking bubble counts seem to be methods of checking the chart.

Hope that makes sense, I find the chart useful - just not black and white (while I wait for Caliban to explain better!). I have to go back and read up, I think the chart is more accurate in soft water but can't recall. Fascinating topic!