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Old 04-28-2011, 01:53 AM   #321
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Hey man. The Otos and corys are different fish. Otos are tiny algae eaters that scrub down the walls, plants, deco, etc... Corys (actually Corydoras) are a small social species of catfish. They need to kept in a group of 5-6 and are supposed to be really fun to watch. They roam the tank all together and they're really playful. I've seen them launching themselves one at a time up a bubble wand to the surface. They're bottom feeders, not algae eaters, so they're good at keeping the gravel clean, they just won't help with plants or the glass.

I like the idea of having a school of Danios (lots of different types of them...google Glofish, your wife will love them), a school of some type of tetras you like, your Rams, and the corys (I like panda corys).

That way the Danios keep the middle to top level of the tank busy, the tetras will hang out around the middle of the tank, the corys patrol along the bottom and the Ram goes wherever he wants. That way, all areas of the tank have life and activity, and it's also a really peaceful combination so you don't have to worry about fighting. I'd add Otos as soon as you see algae showing up.

*did you watch Barca yet?

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Old 04-28-2011, 02:26 AM   #322
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im watchin the game now actually inot the 20th minute now, so how many of each fish wud you recommend sir.. obviously one ram right?
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:39 AM   #323
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im watchin the game now actually inot the 20th minute now, so how many of each fish wud you recommend sir.. obviously one ram right?
Hey Liam (Pigeonfood),

It's your tank, and I'm sure your girl is gonna have a lot of say so (mine did, lol), but he's what I'd do if I had your freshly cycled tank.

7 x Glofish (your wife will love them), otherwise another type of Danio (Zebra, Leopard, etc...). They're super active and keep you entertained 24/7. I worry about thunking them with a test tube when I go to get water samples because they're swimming around nipping at my fingers, lol. They'll be all over the mid-top section of the tank.

7 x Guppys or a type of Tetra you guys like (I went with neons and red eye tetras). Make sure you research the male to female ratio of Guppys before you add them. I don't know about Guppys, but my Tetras keep the middle of the tank active.

1 x Bolivian Ram, German Blue Ram or Dwarf Gourami. If your water is suitable for the GBR's (soft, acidic water), and you're willing to stay on top of the pwc's, I'd go with the GBR because they're absolutely beautiful. The Bolivians are also gorgeous and are more hardy. I personally would just add a solo fish to serve as a centerpiece and to avoid any mating aggression.

6 x Panda Corydoras (or another type of Cory you guys like). Corys will keep the substrate clean of leftover food, add life to the bottom level of the tank are entertaining to watch. Make sure you keep them in a group. Try to not mix and match the types...Don't get 2 Pandas, 2 albino, 2 Julii, etc...
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:50 AM   #324
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Since you just cycled your tank, there's a debate on how quickly to add them, here's my 2 cents...

I would add all of the Danios and Guppy's/Tetras at first. They're all peaceful community fish and you don't need to worry about them becoming aggressive trying to establish territory. Because you have such a strong bio-filter from your fishless cycle, the tank will eat their ammonia without blinking an eye, but they'll put out enough to keep the bacteria fed.

A week or 2 later I'd add the Cory's. There'll be enough stuff in the substrate by then for them to scavenge between feeding times. They'll also help keep the floor clean by mopping up any of the food the other fish missed. Make sure you buy some sinking pellets so enough food actually gets down there for them.

After another week or 2, I'd add the Ram / Dwarf Gourami. Think of it like icing on the cake. You've already got an active, peaceful and healthy environment... and adding your centerpiece fish finishes it all off.

After a couple of months, you're gonna start seeing algae. Most likely since it's a new tank it's gonna be diatoms (brown algae). Now it's time to employ the clean up crew. I HIGHLY recommend Otos. I freaking love those fish. They don't stop. In the first 24 hours of adding them, all the diatoms on the glass, filter, heater were gone...then they split into groups with half cleaning plants and others working on the substrate. A bunch of shrimp (Amano are probably your best bet...Rams might eat Red Cherry's) also help keep the place clean and are fun to watch.

I'm excited to see how it all works out.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:05 PM   #325
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Eco, I like your fish suggestions. What quantity of each would you suggest for a 28g bow front (18"H x 24"W)? Would I even be able to have enough for a school of each?
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:16 PM   #326
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Eco, I like your fish suggestions. What quantity of each would you suggest for a 28g bow front (18"H x 24"W)?
Hey Royta, problem you're gonna run into with the fish I listed above is that they are all schooling fish that like to be kept with a minimum of 6+ of their own kind. I'd personally suggest forgetting about the second group of Tetras and / or Guppys.

The cool thing about Danios is that there are so many types and colorations that all get along and consider each other as part of the same school. For example, Glofish are Danios (just genetically modified). I have 3 pink ones (wife's suggestion), 2 orange ones, 2 green ones and 2 yellow fin Leooard Danios. The Leopards have no idea they aren't Glofish, and they all hang out together. That way you can still add a variety of color while still maintaining their desired schooling numbers, while not having to stock as many fish in your tank to achieve it.

You can use Aqadvisor as a guide for how many to add, but just get an idea from it of stocking levels...don't consider it truth.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:23 PM   #327
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You could also reduce the number of Corys down to 4-5, or do away with them and get a bunch of shrimp instead. Shrimp add virtually 0 bioload to your tank, and they'll keep the place nice and tidy.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:30 PM   #328
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And Royta, I hope you're following the rest of the guide about fishless cycling too? Lol.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:09 PM   #329
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And Royta, I hope you're following the rest of the guide about fishless cycling too? Lol.
Yes I am. Though, I'm not sure who is more impatient, my kids or myself. Wish I knew somebody an established tank I could bag full of gravel from for seeding material.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:14 PM   #330
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Yes I am. Though, I'm not sure who is more impatient, my kids or myself. Wish I knew somebody an established tank I could bag full of gravel from for seeding material.
Seeding material helps, but it's not mandatory. My buddy started and finished on the exact days I did (20 days) and he didn't have seeding material while I did. If you're planning on having a planted tank, you can add them in and keep yourself busy by watching them grow and pruning them. It'll also be a good lesson for your kids to provide something healthy for your fish to help them better appreciate nature and animals.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:28 PM   #331
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Yes, we plan on going with a planted tank. Mainly because I can't see the reason to buy plastic plants, and live plants will help nitrates stay under control which will hopefully lessen tank maintenance.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:33 PM   #332
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Since you just cycled your tank, there's a debate on how quickly to add them, here's my 2 cents...

I would add all of the Danios and Guppy's/Tetras at first. They're all peaceful community fish and you don't need to worry about them becoming aggressive trying to establish territory. Because you have such a strong bio-filter from your fishless cycle, the tank will eat their ammonia without blinking an eye, but they'll put out enough to keep the bacteria fed.

A week or 2 later I'd add the Cory's. There'll be enough stuff in the substrate by then for them to scavenge between feeding times. They'll also help keep the floor clean by mopping up any of the food the other fish missed. Make sure you buy some sinking pellets so enough food actually gets down there for them.

After another week or 2, I'd add the Ram / Dwarf Gourami. Think of it like icing on the cake. You've already got an active, peaceful and healthy environment... and adding your centerpiece fish finishes it all off.

After a couple of months, you're gonna start seeing algae. Most likely since it's a new tank it's gonna be diatoms (brown algae). Now it's time to employ the clean up crew. I HIGHLY recommend Otos. I freaking love those fish. They don't stop. In the first 24 hours of adding them, all the diatoms on the glass, filter, heater were gone...then they split into groups with half cleaning plants and others working on the substrate. A bunch of shrimp (Amano are probably your best bet...Rams might eat Red Cherry's) also help keep the place clean and are fun to watch.

I'm excited to see how it all works out.
ok im curious, do i need to remove some of the corys once i get some otos too when they are needed?
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:39 PM   #333
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ok im curious, do i need to remove some of the corys once i get some otos too when they are needed?
Nope. They work together. Corys keep the substrate clean, the Otos work on the plants, glass, decorations and help out with the gravel.

Plus, I did the math for you. If you stock the tank with the Danios, Guppys (or Tetras), Ram and Corys...you'll be at about 75-80% capacity for your tank. When you add the Otos it'll bring you up to about the 85-90% range which will make everybody happy cause it's not overcrowded, and will make tank maintenance easier for you.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:42 PM   #334
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Corydoras are bottom feeders, not algae eaters. They'll keep the substrate clean because they're constantly churning it up looking for bits of food hidden in there.

The Otos are searching for diatoms and other types of algae in your tank to munch on.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:56 PM   #335
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Nope. They work together. Corys keep the substrate clean, the Otos work on the plants, glass, decorations and help out with the gravel.

Plus, I did the math for you. If you stock the tank with the Danios, Guppys (or Tetras), Ram and Corys...you'll be at about 75-80% capacity for your tank. When you add the Otos it'll bring you up to about the 85-90% range which will make everybody happy cause it's not overcrowded, and will make tank maintenance easier for you.
Thx eco, ur so goood to me lol
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:05 PM   #336
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Thx eco, ur so goood to me lol
Always happy to help out the Euros, lol. Any continent that produced Muse, Led Zeppelin and Karl Pilkington deserves any help they need, lol.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:25 PM   #337
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Plus I'm the one who talked you into this whole fishless cycling thing...your girlfriend probably hates me, lol.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:30 PM   #338
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Plus I'm the one who talked you into this whole fishless cycling thing...your girlfriend probably hates me, lol.
nope, she is more appreciated of the fact that we are doin it the right way. But tbh she was getting really really impatience near the end. lol
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:59 AM   #339
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Eric HEEEEEEEELP lol my test kit has been showing this for over ten days now with a 50% and a 75% water change with in 4 days of each other
Any ideas mate
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:21 AM   #340
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Eric HEEEEEEEELP lol my test kit has been showing this for over ten days now with a 50% and a 75% water change with in 4 days of each other
Any ideas mate
Good lord man! Is that the ammo on the left? I've never seen that test kit, and maybe the lighting makes it look darker...but that's wayyyyyyy to much ammonia. Did you dose it back up after the pwc's? Are you sure you're dosing it up to 4ppm and not 400ppm, lol?

I assume these test results are after adding more ammonia right? If you did a 50% and a 75% pwc and these are the levels without adding anything else...we might have to call a hazardous material emergency response team, lol.

I think the problem is there's too much ammonia to even show where you are in the cycle...heck, you could even be done cycling and not even know it with levels that high.

It's like if my dog was hungry, and instead of filling his bowl (4ppm) I gave him 50lbs of steak (whatever ammonia level you're at now). He would eat and eat and eat (dropping ammo), and he'd make lots of poo (nitrItes) but because he's got such an appetite you might never be able to tell he's full (cycled). Now when you empty his bowl (pwc's), if you fill it up with a reasonable amount (4ppm), you could watch and see how fast he eats it (drops ammo to 0), but if you just put another 50lbs of steak in there the same process is gonna happen and you'll never know.

Do you know your nitrAte levels? I assume the test on the right is nitrItes? I'd do a huge pwc (80%), test the ammo and no2 after, then slowly add a little ammo at a time if needed to make sure you bring the ammo only up to 3-4 ppm and not any higher.

Let me know what the levels are after the pwc (ammo, no2 and no3), and make sure you don't add more than 3-4ppm ammo. Cheers!
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