The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

[eco23]

I got it about 24 hours before I added the ammo so should be ok and yeah it has just started coming up, sky is getting slightly lighter haha thing is I only have one more glass of wine to finish then down a pint of water haha so need to keep occupied for just another 10 mins or so then sleep

Sounds good man. The water is an important part of the end of a wine drinking night. The seed material should be fine. Tell you what, drop the ammo down with a pwc tomorrow to around 2ppm. I don't want you getting impatient and I think it'll be alright since your tank is small. A 50% pwc should drop the ammo by half. I'm gonna try to set a record for this guide with your tank. Don't forget the dechlorinator... mucho importante (one of the few things I remember from high school Spanish).

 

[JoeDaniels]

Sounds good man. The water is an important part of the end of a wine drinking night. The seed material should be fine. Tell you what, drop the ammo down with a pwc tomorrow to around 2ppm. I don't want you getting impatient and I think it'll be alright since your tank is small. A 50% pwc should drop the ammo by half. I'm gonna try to set a record for this guide with your tank. Don't forget the dechlorinator... mucho importante (one of the few things I remember from high school Spanish).

And with the wine and water gone I think it's time to go to sleep haha plus its 5 in the morning over here haha yeah ok I'll do that then would be good to set a record haha speak tomorrow night night

 

[eco23]

And with the wine and water gone I think it's time to go to sleep haha plus its 5 in the morning over here haha yeah ok I'll do that then would be good to set a record haha speak tomorrow night night

Have a good night (morning to you).

 

[EGMono]

Oh betta please tell these female secrets of how to prevent and yes even though I'm relatively a newbie I have learnt a large wealth of knowledge and am aware of seed and have looked a lot more into the scientific side to say that water has no bacteria I believe is not fully true (don't get me wrong a handful of gravel has morr than a lot of water will) but to say they only cling is false as they will always get trapped within the water don't take this wrong at all please as I like to be a friend rather than one of these silly people who debate constantly please prove me wrong as for some reason when I'm scientifically proved wrong it actually makes me learn significantly hahaha dont know why haha

They are in the water as well, how else would they reach the gravel except through the water? Its more likely that they just aren't as beneficial to tank owners while they're swimming around looking for a place to land... (and of course density per sq.in. would be MUCH lower) Any bacteria-ologists on board?

 

[royta]

OK, I know I'm getting close, but I thought I'd run the past few days by you.

• Ammonia has been dropping from 6.0-ish to 0 for two 24 hr periods straight.
• Nitrites have stayed the same at 5.0+.
• Nitrates were up to 10 to 20 a couple days prior to ammonia being 100% converted in a 24 hr period, but the last two tests it has been at 0 to 5.0.

Strange that the nitrates seem to have gone backward. I'm using the API kit and am adding 10 drops of bottle 1, capping tube and inverting back and forth. Then I shake bottle two for 30 seconds and add 10 drops to tube. Then shake tube for 60 seconds and then take reading 5 minutes after that. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong on the test.

Any suggestions? 50% PWC maybe?

 

[eco23]

OK, I know I'm getting close, but I thought I'd run the past few days by you.

[*]Ammonia has been dropping from 6.0-ish to 0 for two 24 hr periods straight.
[*]Nitrites have stayed the same at 5.0+.
[*]Nitrates were up to 10 to 20 a couple days prior to ammonia being 100% converted in a 24 hr period, but the last two tests it has been at 0 to 5.0.
Strange that the nitrates seem to have gone backward. I'm using the API kit and am adding 10 drops of bottle 1, capping tube and inverting back and forth. Then I shake bottle two for 30 seconds and add 10 drops to tube. Then shake tube for 60 seconds and then take reading 5 minutes after that. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong on the test.

Any suggestions? 50% PWC maybe?

NitrAtes have dropped that much? A little odd. It's possible to have a reduction happen due to plants or late stages of the nitrogen cycle (which aren't usually mentioned because they don't have an impact on cycling).

Firest, I'd reduce your ammo dosage to 3-4ppm instead of 6. The more ammo you add, the higher the other levels spike and it increases the possibility of a stalled cycle.

Probably the nitrIte to nitrAte bacteria has stalled and you're losing nitrAtes due to the reasons I listed above. You can't really tell it's stalled because the no2 levels are so high. I'd do a large pwc (50-60 %) and get your nitrItes well down to a readable range. Then dose the ammo up only to 3-4 ppm and monitor it. You can also add a TINY amount of finely ground up fish food to kick things into gear. Make sure it's ground into a powder because large chunks or flakes can cause fungus and mold problems.

Otherwise things seem good

 

[royta]

Other than PFS, I have a completely bare aquarium. Plants will be added later and my parent's haven't delivered my milk crate of genuine Mt. Shasta volcanic rock yet.

I don't have any food yet. I'll be picking up some New Life Spectrum Thera+A Regular Formula 1mm sinking food in the next week, as long as Petco has it in stock. I'm hoping that's about as good as it gets for the fish you recommended in Post 323.

I haven't needed to add ammonia really, and have found it doesn't take much to dose it up. 4ml of the Ace Hardware janitorial ammonia brings it up from 0 to above 4.0. I'll do a PWC this evening and only does to 3.0 to 4.0.

Thanks.

 

[royta]

Did a 60% PWC. Parameters prior to PWC were 0 ammonia, 5.0+ nitrites, and 0 to 5 nitrates. Added 2 ml ammonia after PWC. Ammonia is now at 1.0 to 2.0, which is strange as I thought I'd be closer to 3.0. I'll recheck this evening along with nitrites and nitrates.

 

[Cloudrider]

Well I think spoke to soon. Three days ago levels appeared to be going in the right direction. Ammo was 0, no2 was 2 or so. No3 was like 20 and ph was 6.4. So I dosed ammo up to 4ppm. Checked levels yesterday and ammo was 1 and everything looked about the same. I didn't add anything. Checked again today and levels were same. Why is ammo not dropping? There for several days it was 0 when I checked. I am thinking I need to do another pwc. Thoughts?
Thanks
Cr

 

[eco23]

Sounds good . Keep us posted after you test.

I've never researched too deeply into foods, but I try to focus on giving my fish a balanced diet. The way I see it, if they were swimming in a river they'd be eating foods from both the animal kingdom and some veggies. I use Omega One flakes, Hikari sinking pellets and bloodworms once in a while as a treat and to supplement their diet. I also drop in an algae pellet or two once in a while for the shrimp and Otos, but my neons and danios absolutely love them and the shrimp don't even get time to realize they're in there, lol. I've also heard it's a great idea to feed blanched peas weekly because it helps to keep their digestion healthy. I know it sounds like a lot of variety, but I figure we put so much effort into building them a happy home, there's no reason to stop the pampering when it comes to their food . I'm sure the food you're getting is good, I've just never researched any of them other than what I've heard other members say.

 

[eco23]

Well I think spoke to soon. Three days ago levels appeared to be going in the right direction. Ammo was 0, no2 was 2 or so. No3 was like 20 and ph was 6.4. So I dosed ammo up to 4ppm. Checked levels yesterday and ammo was 1 and everything looked about the same. I didn't add anything. Checked again today and levels were same. Why is ammo not dropping? There for several days it was 0 when I checked. I am thinking I need to do another pwc. Thoughts?
Thanks
Cr

How long ago did you do the pwc? Was it previously dropping the ammo down to 0 in a 24 hour period? Larger tanks can take significantly longer to cycle, so this is probably just one of those periods where patience is needed. If you feel a pwc is in order, it won't hurt anything...just probably won't be necessary. I'd also try the small pinch of fish food method now too. Check a couple posts up, I think I just mentioned fish food earlier and went over how to do it. Tiny bit, ground up as fine as possible.

 

[Cloudrider]

Pwc was about week ago. If not needed, I will wait. Just baffled me on the ammo. Was dropping to 0 for several days. Now stuck at one. I added tiny bit of ground food. Guess I will dose back to 3 or 4 ppm ammo and be patient. Wife and kids rubbing off on me. They want to add fish. Lol

 

[eco23]

Pwc was about week ago. If not needed, I will wait. Just baffled me on the ammo. Was dropping to 0 for several days. Now stuck at one. I added tiny bit of ground food. Guess I will dose back to 3 or 4 ppm ammo and be patient. Wife and kids rubbing off on me. They want to add fish. Lol

Yeah, it probably stalled a bit in spite of the pwc (which helps prevent that). As I said, the larger tanks take longer to cycle (despite what a few people believe). I think the fish food will help, you can also add a few drops of pH down if you've got it...but its not necessary. Did you remember to dechlorinate and match temps in the pwc? If I remember, you've also got low pH values, so keep a close eye on them and make sure they don't start dropping lower, that can cause a crash and a die off of some bacteria.

 

[Cloudrider]

Yep used declorinator. Matched temps. Will watch ph. What do I need to do to raise ph if it comes to that? Thanks
Ronnie

 

[eco23]

Yep used declorinator. Matched temps. Will watch ph. What do I need to do to raise ph if it comes to that? Thanks
Ronnie

In 99.9% of cases I recommend against trying to alter the pH of your water. Most fish can adapt to pH levels as long as they're constant. The ideal pH for a particular fish might be 6.5, but he'll be much happier in a constant 8.0 than he would be with fluctuating pH levels caused by altering the level of pH during pwc's.

For example (and using easy math), if you added something like crushed coral to the filter to raise the pH...the tank might be stable with a pH of 8. But if the water from your tap was 6, every time you did a pwc (say 50%) you would have an instant pH swing of a solid point that can be very stressful and deadly to fish.

The best rule is to choose fish that are suitable for your water...don't try to make the water suitable for your fish.

As far as during a cycle...one type of bacteria likes the pH higher, the other likes it lower (I don't remember which is which), but it won't have a major impact on cycling time. It might a good idea to test the alkalinity level of your water,because if it very low in buffers...that makes it prone to more dramatic swings in pH. Again, you can use things like crushed coral to buffer it, but frequent pwc's should also restore the buffers that are used up during the cycle.

Long story short, do a pwc if you see the pH drop any, and an extra pwc or two during the cycle might not be a bad idea.

Sorry one more thing, ammonia has basic properties, so once your cycle is done and you stop adding it the pH might go down a little...in that case it's not a cause for concern.

 

[Cloudrider]

So patience it is. Wife won't like. Lol. Oh well. She will survive. I will monitor and see what happens. Tap water is 7.0 -7.2 range. I'm guessing the ammo converter bacteria don't like the lower ph.

 

[eco23]

So patience it is. Wife won't like. Lol. Oh well. She will survive. I will monitor and see what happens. Tap water is 7.0 -7.2 range. I'm guessing the ammo converter bacteria don't like the lower ph.

I must have gotten you mixed up, sorry. I thought you said you were in the low 6's. My mistake. Same rules apply to everyone though, lol.

 

[Cloudrider]

No you didn't get me mixed up. Tank water currently is 6.4. Tap water is 7.2 or so.

 

[eco23]

No you didn't get me mixed up. Tank water currently is 6.4. Tap water is 7.2 or so.

That's a wee bit odd. The nitrifying bacteria do put out acidic waste which can cause it to drop, but I'm surprised its that soon after the pwc. If it were my tank, I'd do another fairly large (60%?) pwc when you have time (sorry!), try to get the pH near the tap values and watch it very closely. My concern would be that at the very end of the cycle the bacteria basically let's out a big burp and the pH goes down a bit. if your water is very low in alkalinity, the drop in pH can be dramatic and set you back a couple days.

After the pwc, if the pH keeps dropping you may want to consider putting a very small amount of crushed coral in a mesh bag, or adding a bit of baking powder (I'd have to research how much), to raise the KH and help buffer the water during the cycle. Once the cycle is done, take it out and do your big pwc. The baking soda would be removed during the pwc.

 

[eco23]

Do you guys have really soft water? Lots of bubbles in soap, etc...?