The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

[eco23]

Yup there is always this layer on the surface of my tank water. I use paper towels laid on the surface to remove it. The filter outlet is on one end of my tank. Since my tank is 4 feet long, the other end does not get disturbed much and will form this stagnant layer. I read that this protein layer will reduce gas exchange between air and water. So to remove this layer or stop it fron forming the forumers' advise to agitate the surface with bubbles. Hope I am making sense here.

I've personally never seen a brown bio-film. IME it's more like a milky white film on the surface. Did the increased agitation remove it?

 

[Clausura]

I've personally never seen a brown bio-film. IME it's more like a milky white film on the surface. Did the increased agitation remove it?

Its not brown on the surface but after using the paper towels, brown sludge is found on the towels. Yup the increased agitation removed it. Hopefully it'll help to show some positive results.

 

[Rhino]

My tank is practically cycled running one more night to make sure. My ph continues to drop though. I have done two massive water changes (roughly 75%) and it continues to want to go down. Any idea why this is happening? Did not start until almost a week ago, tank has been cycling for 3 weeks.

 

[eco23]

My tank is practically cycled running one more night to make sure. My ph continues to drop though. I have done two massive water changes (roughly 75%) and it continues to want to go down. Any idea why this is happening? Did not start until almost a week ago, tank has been cycling for 3 weeks.

What is your pH level out of the tap, and how low is it dropping in the tank?

One experiment to try (if I haven't had you do it already) is to leave a glass of tap water sitting out overnight (throw an air stone in it if you've got one) and see how the pH changes over that time compared to straight out of the faucet.

The nitrifying bacteria is actually the common reason pH drops. When it is colonizing and converting toxins, it uses the buffers (what holds pH steady) as a type of nutrient, and excretes acidic waste at the same time. Combine the two things together and you get pH drops and crashes. Normally a healthy water change will prevent this once the tank is cycled and stocked...but if you have very low alkalinity water it can be worth buffering it with a small amount of crushed coral (what I have to do).

We'll do the glass of water experiment, and see what we come up with

 

[micaiah12]

Bleh, my fish tank can not get over the 5ppm of n02 problem, It has been a month and a half. Ha ha ha to tell you the truth i'm getting a little frustrated. IDK what to do so any help would be great.

Maybe I can start over?? idk that might have to be the way to go, but I really don't want to go that way :/

 

[Rhino]

What is your pH level out of the tap, and how low is it dropping in the tank?

One experiment to try (if I haven't had you do it already) is to leave a glass of tap water sitting out overnight (throw an air stone in it if you've got one) and see how the pH changes over that time compared to straight out of the faucet.

The nitrifying bacteria is actually the common reason pH drops. When it is colonizing and converting toxins, it uses the buffers (what holds pH steady) as a type of nutrient, and excretes acidic waste at the same time. Combine the two things together and you get pH drops and crashes. Normally a healthy water change will prevent this once the tank is cycled and stocked...but if you have very low alkalinity water it can be worth buffering it with a small amount of crushed coral (what I have to do).

We'll do the glass of water experiment, and see what we come up with

As always Eco thanks once more for your help. I truly appreciate it.

 

[eco23]

Bleh, my fish tank can not get over the 5ppm of n02 problem, It has been a month and a half. Ha ha ha to tell you the truth i'm getting a little frustrated. IDK what to do so any help would be great.

Maybe I can start over?? idk that might have to be the way to go, but I really don't want to go that way :/

It's been stuck at 5ppm+ for a month and a half?!

What's your pH level? Have you tried doing any large water changes since it spiked?

 

[eco23]

As always Eco thanks once more for your help. I truly appreciate it.

Any time . Let me know what happens.

 

[Lunchbox209]

Hey Eco I have a question I recently bought some gbr and was reading online that they like soft water with a ph of around 6.0 but if I let my ph get that low won't my bb stop converting what can I do

 

[Clausura]

Ok I have checkrd my levels for today after adding in the bubble wand.
pH : 7.6, up from 7.2

nitrite: 0 same as yesterday's

Ammonia: 1ppm from 3ppm yesterday.

So conversion is still happening but at a very slow pace. Seems like the BB has been stunned and is just waking up from a daze. Hopefully it'll pick up...

 

[eco23]

Hey Eco I have a question I recently bought some gbr and was reading online that they like soft water with a ph of around 6.0 but if I let my ph get that low won't my bb stop converting what can I do

The first thing I'd say is not to mess with your water at all unless it is at some extreme level. GBR's might prefer soft, acidic water, but what they really require is stability. Trying to alter the GH / KH of the water (especially when you try to lower it) is a slippery slope and will almost always do more harm than good. The majority of fish in the hobby are tank raised...so they don't need the same strict requirements of their wild caught cousins. Especially with sensitive fish like GBR's I wouldn't consider altering the water chemistry unless your pH was in the high 8's. Anything else will be fine.

To answer your question though, a pH near 6 is a tricky area. Nitrification slows in the low 6's, and once it hits 6 or below it stops entirely (so there's no conversion, i.e. the tank is not cycling). You'd think this would mean a death sentence, but the funny thing is that ammonia becomes non-toxic (within reason) at these low levels. So unless there is some crazy high level, all of it is ammonium instead of free ammonia and it's virtually harmless. NitrIte on the other hand becomes super toxic...but since there's no bacteria converting ammo > no2...there shouldn't be nitrite in the tank.

 

[micaiah12]

reply

It's been stuck at 5ppm+ for a month and a half?!

What's your pH level? Have you tried doing any large water changes since it spiked?

Oops sorry, I should of explained more. It was all doing fine till 2.5 weeks ago. I was getting close. You know, with my nitrates off the chart and my nitrites slowly disappearing. Then once my nitrites 5ppm they just stopped going down. I let this go on for about a day, just to make sure. When I checked my tank the next day there was no sign of change with the no2. So I checked my P.H. and it was still stable. I just said heck with it and did a 90% water change. That helped. So I added my daily dose of ammonia and let it sit for 24 hours. Then I checked my P.H. and no2. My P.H. was doing the same, but my no2 was staying at 5ppm+. I couldn't figure it. So now it's been 18 days and I have just let it been brewing in my fish tank. I thought maybe it would go down, but to no avail. I have been doing weekly water changes and all that stuff. It just got frustrating so I asked you guys yesterday. I hope you can help.

 

[eco23]

Oops sorry, I should of explained more. It was all doing fine till 2.5 weeks ago. I was getting close. You know, with my nitrates off the chart and my nitrites slowly disappearing. Then once my nitrites 5ppm they just stopped going down. I let this go on for about a day, just to make sure. When I checked my tank the next day there was no sign of change with the no2. So I checked my P.H. and it was still stable. I just said heck with it and did a 90% water change. That helped. So I added my daily dose of ammonia and let it sit for 24 hours. Then I checked my P.H. and no2. My P.H. was doing the same, but my no2 was staying at 5ppm+. I couldn't figure it. So now it's been 18 days and I have just let it been brewing in my fish tank. I thought maybe it would go down, but to no avail. I have been doing weekly water changes and all that stuff. It just got frustrating so I asked you guys yesterday. I hope you can help.

My fault...I got you mixed up and forgot your previous posts :-/. Avatars help me connect the dots, otherwise my mind gets everyones tanks mixed up, lol.

How far have you lowered the no2 with water changes? There is a point where nitrIte actually becomes toxic to the beneficial bacteria. It's a very high level...but it does exist. Normally we don't run into that problem, but it is a possibility.

I know it's a pain in the butt, but I'd personally do one more massive water change (it might take a couple) to get the no2 down to ~.5ppm. Then for the next few days I'd only dose the ammonia to 1ppm. That will give the no2 to no3 bacteria a chance to develop without being overwhelmed. After the 3 days we'll want to bump the ammonia back up to 4ppm, but hopefully we'll see progress by then. After the water change, make sure you're still seeing the nitrAtes climb as well. That will show is that the conversion is going good and nothing bad has happened.

Keep us posted (sorry about the mix-up ).

 

[micaiah12]

Alright, I lowered my ammonia dose to 1ppm daily and in a few days my nitrites evaporated (into nitrates, that is). Now reading at .5 ppm or less (was kind of in a hurry while I tested, but it as really clear blue so around 0ppm) I then did a dose of 4ppm after 24 hours. I am going to see if it can take that 4ppm of ammonia and convert it from ammonia>no2>no3 thanks everyone. I will keep you posted!!!!!

 

[Christina717]

hey eco, me again I just bought a 29 gallon tank. my 10 gallon as you know is cycled do I just move my filter media and put it in my new filter that I got and its cycled? I have a goldie, will he be fine in the new tank ? I just filled it up with water and decorinator. I have a 20gallon aquaclear filter and am upgrading to a 70 gallon aquaclear, waiting for your call on this....im clueless

 

[eco23]

hey eco, me again I just bought a 29 gallon tank. my 10 gallon as you know is cycled do I just move my filter media and put it in my new filter that I got and its cycled? I have a goldie, will he be fine in the new tank ? I just filled it up with water and decorinator. I have a 20gallon aquaclear filter and am upgrading to a 70 gallon aquaclear, waiting for your call on this....im clueless

* I moved this over from the other thread

Good for you getting a bigger tank. Sounds like it will be the perfect home for your Goldie.

Yep, just move every single scrap of filter media from the old into the new. Normally there's a chance of toxin spikes for a few days since you lose the beneficial bacteria on the walls / substrate / decor, but since you just finished a fishless cycle at 4ppm of ammonia, I'd bet you have an abundance of beneficial bacteria and it won't hurt to lose the small amount inside the tank since you've got extra.

It'd also be a good idea to run both filters on the same tank. That way you'll have a backup running in case one fails, you'll have the ability to set up an instantly cycled emergency quarantine tank by simply throwing the smaller filter on your 10 gallon, and with Goldfish there's no such thing as over-filtration. Enjoy

 

[Christina717]

alright thnx. I also have that media from angelsplus that I put in the tank and a stocking of gravel and a plastic plant All i need is a nice backround!

 

[Christina717]

MY NEW FISH TANK

-And Midas (oranda goldfish)
-One more comming soon!-

 

[eco23]

MY NEW FISH TANK

-And Midas (oranda goldfish)
-One more comming soon!-

Looks great. Beautiful fish.

Is that the AngelsPlus sponge filter?! That thing is freaking HUGE! I'd never seen one.

 

[Christina717]

Ya I was surprised to when I opened the package. It took up a lot of space in my 10 gallon. At least it worked for me or I dont think I would be done with my cycle.